By L.K. Regan
Published May 22, 2008
The military's controversial "Don't ask, don't tell" policy was dealt a damaging blow on Wednesday by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled that the policy violates the U.S. Constitution, reported the
Associated Press. The court's ruling applied to the particular case of Marjorie Witt, an Air Force major who was forced out two years before her full retirement when it was revealed that she had a female partner. Witt, a flight nurse, was dismissed despite her stellar record and a shortage of qualified nurses.
"Don't ask, don't tell" is the U.S. military's
policy of not seeking information about the sexual orientation of personnel, yet automatically discharging anyone who discloses his or her homosexual status on the grounds that homosexuality constitutes a threat to the morale, discipline, and unit cohesion of the force.
The 9th Circuit's three-judge panel did not actually declare "Don't ask, don't tell" unconstitutional in its own right. Rather, the panel ruled that the policy would have to be applied on an individual basis. In other words, the military would need to demonstrate not merely that the presence of gay or lesbian people in the ranks was damaging to military morale, but that the presence of a particular gay or lesbian person was damaging to morale. A presidential citation described Witt's service in Afghanistan in 2003 by saying, "Her airmanship and courage directly contributed to the successful accomplishment of important missions under extremely hazardous conditions." Against this backdrop, proving her corrupting influence was an uphill battle, and the 9th Circuit judges found themselves unconvinced.
The decision was noteworthy for its use of recent judicial opinion as a foundation. The justices particularly cited the case of
Lawrence v. Texas, a 2003 Supreme Court decision ruling that the government could not violate an individual's right to privacy. Lawrence v. Texas addressed the arrest of two gay men for performing consensual anal sex in a private residence, an arrest that the state justified under blanket anti-sodomy laws. The court was unconvinced that prevention of private sex acts constituted a compelling state interest, and in fact decided that such private conduct was specifically protected by the Constitution. As the Lawrence decision reads, "the intimate, adult consensual conduct at issue [in Lawrence v. Texas] was part of the liberty protected by the substantive component of the Fourteenth Amendment's due process protections."
Wednesday's 9th Circuit ruling uses Lawrence as its foundation, arguing that, as judge Ronald M. Gould wrote in his opinion, "When the government attempts to intrude upon the personal and private lives of homosexuals, the government must advance an important governmental interest ... and the intrusion must be necessary to further that interest." For the case of Major Witt, this would have meant a demonstration that her particular homosexual conduct—rather than the mere fact of her homosexuality—was damaging to her military unit, and therefore to the state's interests. While the ruling leaves "Don't ask, don't tell" in place as policy, it does so by a thread—any dismissed gay service member can, according to the reasoning of the ruling, sue in court for redress on the grounds that, though he or she may be LGBT, that fact was not in any way destructive to the military's interests. With a flood of such cases on its hands—many of them potentially brought by brave and decorated service members like Major Witt—gay activists (and sane people in general) have reason to hope that the government might see that its policy is not only wrong, but more trouble than it is worth.
If you are an LGBT service person and want to learn more about your rights, visit the
Servicemembers Legal Defense Network.
From my experience, the people who are most uncomfortable with gays in the military are the older generations of military members. A lot of my peers know that I am and I have come out to several; however, it has not changed their opinion of me or how they treat me while in uniform. I have overheard many of my superiors who believe that the policy is the only way to allow gay members to serve, but from watching them talk about the subject it is obvious that they have major issues with the gay lifestyle.
A friend of mine brings up a good point: the military lifestyle stresses honor and loyalty... however, this policy is about deceit. Currently if a gay male or female would like to serve, he or she has to forfeit their own integrity and lie about who they really are. In the end, does it matter if that soldier that gave his life was sleeping with another man?
The policy is "Dont Ask, Dont Tell, Dont Pursue" to be technical about it, with a briefing about this every three months in the position I hold, the message comes across under alot of policies.
Coming up on 10years of service and I've only had one instance of any kind of "trouble" with the Dont Ask, Dont Tell policy. Interestingly enough, I have never worked with a female until the last three years. I hear from alot of guys that say well I am "Out" at work and it is fine with everyone. I have to speak up and say that it is all about were you work, what unit you are in, and definitly what MOS that you hold.
Here is my take on it and alot of people disagree with me but regardless its my take on it: Why do I need to know who someone at work slept with the night prior to getting up and putting on the uniform? I honestly could careless and I advocate this in every unit I am in. If you wish to talk about some slut you picked up the night before and banged all night long do so outside of the work place. New concept right? Well, not so much. We are supposed to be professionals at all we do, does that not also include the way we carry ourselves or is that a thing of the past? Being in an all male unit were being the man is priority #1 is not different then being in a unit with male and female soldiers, were talk of your sexual activities could land you in front of the commander in line for an Art 15 due to an EO violation.
The only time this gets tricky is when its not about just the endless string of one night stands we as most gay and straight people do, but its about the serious commited relationships of those as of the above referenced Major. This is of course an assumption of my part on said behaviors not knowing the full facts, I think you all get my drift. Healthy, stable homosexual relationships are not whats betrayed in the media nor in internet chats or talks. What everyone sees most is some guy sliding into a bathroom stall an
There are certain things that I agree and disagree with on the don't ask don't tell policy. Being an Iraq war vet I understand it to a certain degree because it protects certain people from being descriminated against, or harmed while serving. The military isn't really a place that you can go around and wave your pride flag because there are people that come from all over the country that have different backgrounds and have never been around people like us.You have to be able to talk to people in a certain way and open their eyes and help them to realize we are all just people. On the other hand I don't agree with it because it's just another one of our human rights that are being taken away by our government and they should not be able to dictate what is right and wrong.
Well I am Currently Serving in Iraq right Now, On my first tour in Iraq it is a 15 Month tour and we are 3/4 done with it and I am a Openly Gay Male. I did hide in fear while in training and basic But I slowly started coming out to my Close friends in My Duty Station in Germany and I soon realized That No one I have meet has stopped and feared me or hated Me Some dont understand but dont think less of me for it and treat me the same as any other soldier I got to know them and when They ask i said (Yes I am )I will not Hide Or Fear being WHo I am, I did it for years from certain family and will never go back there I am a adult and can choose my life and am proud of my self and I have the surport of everyone I work with I use it to lighten up the days with jokes laugher and me just making people laugh and sometimes I know I helped certain people make it through another day out here with a smile on their face since that can be hard at times out here. I am lucky that I have been welcomed and acepted so strongly by every other soldier I know and all the friends I have made and continue to make being a open gay male serving in the Military I get many people saying how they think I am very strong for being so open and not hiding or fearing or trying to be what every one else wants I dont fear this choice one day I only wonder if joining was the right choice for me not being honest with myself and others it feels great to know I can trust them and that they realy know who I am it is interesting since many guys ask me questions about being gay and I explain it and they actually learn and try to understand homosexuality better and not live by and think the stereotype most people hear or see in the movies.
I served in the military and honorably, albeit in the closet. I firmly believe that given the chance a majority of gay and lesbian would be honored to be able to serve their country. I think these days people are far more open to respect of other people's beliefs including orientation. The homophobic fear that by letting them serve, that they would disrupt and try to convert others is crazy. To those that are in uniform on this Memorial Day, I salute you! You do your country an honor that sometimes to few fail to do.
The military went after me for DADT after I got back from duty in the Mid-East. I stayed silent, and luckily for me, they couldn't prove anything, but it was a humiliating experience and I essentially was outed to everyone who knew me. My sexuality had nothing to do with how I performed as a soldier. The current policy is discriminatory and does not protect or serve our national interests in any way.
I just read this article this morning and it happens to be Memorial Day in the US. I wish I could share this article and (especially) the comments from the service men and women with my father, a retired Navy CPO who served for about 20 years more or less, but I'm not (yet) out to him or my mother for fear that they'd cut off financial support for my college tuition. He's a hardline Christian and said to me on several occasions when I was younger and in front of family at family reunions that gays should rot in hell.
But I wish I could share this page with him because it shows that the discrimination of LGBT in the military and public at large is all just based on flawed, ill-informed traditions and a misinterpretation of religious literature that's 2,500 years old, nothing more. And from the words of actual service men and women--not the politicians that just don't understand, these old rules simply hold no ground on or off the battlefields.
I'm a military-dependent. I'm always reminded whenever I see a service person in uniform like those in ROTC on the USC (Los Angeles) campus that they're putting their life on the line for whatever reasons they may have--may it be simply financial hardship, and/or to truly defend this nation; regardless of their personal reasons they all should be honored and respected equally and non-discriminately without regard for their gender identity, ethnicity, family background, religion, sexual orientation.
As the son of a military man, and on this Memorial Day, much due respect to those in active service and those who have served for the people of the USA.
I can honestly say that it was a pleasure for me to have served in the military. Sadly I did serve most of my time in the closet. But I took at risk near then end of my term and I started to come out to some people and found that they took it btter than I could have ever hoped for. Many people in the military don't care whether youare gay or straight. All they care for is that you do your job right and are there when you are needed. It's the policy makers that are afraid of what they think might happen because they come from an old world where this kind of stuff was not heard of. It is a new world out there and they need to adapt but they can't cus they are already set in their ways.
I spent 8 1/2 year in the Army and I've never had a problem with my sexual oriantaiton while I was in. Of course, I didn't exactly broadcast it across the air ways. Every duty station I've been to, I've had several drunken encounters with someone who wasn't gay or maybe perhaps was just in the closet, non the less, until I got hurt and the military put me out on a medical (honerable) discharg, I've never been confronted with this policy. Of course I've never been put in a position where I've had to challange it or it has had to challange me. To me, the Don't ask, Don't tell policy is just a phrase on a piece of paper. It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't protect anybody or anything. Gay soldiers who are out or not are generaly the ones (individualy) who are gioing to have to decide what kind of life they want to lead in the military. They CHOSE to join an organization that has been around for 2 centuries, they have thier own traditions,codes and laws. If there is a day when gay soldiers can openley serve then Hole lu ya, but until that day comes, just serve the best you can.
Sadly I cannot serve due to many medical problems, I will say however, my time spent in Jr. ROTC was the best times of my life. I met many men and women that were gay and lesbian in my times spent on base for ISMT weapon training or even in my summer spent in Boot camp (extra credit for qualified individuals). Every day they risk their lives for us and everyday we take that for granted. I may only be 19 but I will say with all my heart that I love every soldier in every branch of service (regardless of my past experiences). It takes men and women of all creeds, religions, colors, and sexual orientation to keep this country safe. Even sitting here in my office chair I salute every single one of our men and women in the armed forces!
Darrell
Plenty of gay men and women serve the Military. I've met so many "family" during my time in the Marines. We do the same work put up with the same crap. When will some of these folks realize that we're not that different and that we're human beings. But I'm not giving up hope. One day it will be okay, for us.
I never understood why Clinton put this policy in place. But, I am sorry to say this will never end. George Washington kicked out the first person for being gay in the military. There will always be hate and question about what gay men and women can do in combat. All we can do is prove everyone wrong and show the world we are strong and a lable will not keep us down. "What have you done today to make you feel Proud"
Unfortunately a California poll taken after this court ruling indicates that an initiative to amend the State of California constitution to outlaw same sex marriage is virtually certain to be on the ballot this coming November--and is (presently) very likely to pass. As I understand it, if this amendment passes, it will override the federal court ruling.
"Don't ask, Don't tell" is obviously a flawed policy upheld by the military and only services to undermine its efficiency. There are plenty of LGBT people whom would proudly fight for their country but are hindered by this policy that discriminates on the basis of who you are as a person.
Ultimately, it is irrelevant in the heat of battle to be concerned about an individual's sexual orientation. You are not going to be thinking of the queer next to you if you are fighting to save lives, least of all your own.
I am glad that the court noted that state anti gay sex laws were unconstitutional and therefore could not serve as a basis for DADT. I hope this helps anyone being processed out right now.
Yes, I can't wait till this stupid policy is dead... Hopefully it will see its demise soon...
I live for the day when "DA,DT" gets burned in HELL!! And legal gay marriages in Texas.
endrancerunr wrote:
From my experience, the people who are most uncomfortable with gays in the military are the older generations of military members. A lot of my peers know that I am and I have come out to several; however, it has not changed their opinion of me or how they treat me while in uniform. I have overheard many of my superiors who believe that the policy is the only way to allow gay members to serve, but from watching them talk about the subject it is obvious that they have major issues with the gay lifestyle.
A friend of mine brings up a good point: the military lifestyle stresses honor and loyalty... however, this policy is about deceit. Currently if a gay male or female would like to serve, he or she has to forfeit their own integrity and lie about who they really are. In the end, does it matter if that soldier that gave his life was sleeping with another man?
Jun 24 12:26 AM
R6Bud wrote:
The policy is "Dont Ask, Dont Tell, Dont Pursue" to be technical about it, with a briefing about this every three months in the position I hold, the message comes across under alot of policies.
Coming up on 10years of service and I've only had one instance of any kind of "trouble" with the Dont Ask, Dont Tell policy. Interestingly enough, I have never worked with a female until the last three years. I hear from alot of guys that say well I am "Out" at work and it is fine with everyone. I have to speak up and say that it is all about were you work, what unit you are in, and definitly what MOS that you hold.
Here is my take on it and alot of people disagree with me but regardless its my take on it: Why do I need to know who someone at work slept with the night prior to getting up and putting on the uniform? I honestly could careless and I advocate this in every unit I am in. If you wish to talk about some slut you picked up the night before and banged all night long do so outside of the work place. New concept right? Well, not so much. We are supposed to be professionals at all we do, does that not also include the way we carry ourselves or is that a thing of the past? Being in an all male unit were being the man is priority #1 is not different then being in a unit with male and female soldiers, were talk of your sexual activities could land you in front of the commander in line for an Art 15 due to an EO violation.
The only time this gets tricky is when its not about just the endless string of one night stands we as most gay and straight people do, but its about the serious commited relationships of those as of the above referenced Major. This is of course an assumption of my part on said behaviors not knowing the full facts, I think you all get my drift. Healthy, stable homosexual relationships are not whats betrayed in the media nor in internet chats or talks. What everyone sees most is some guy sliding into a bathroom stall an
May 29 10:06 AM
Zzyzx wrote:
There are certain things that I agree and disagree with on the don't ask don't tell policy. Being an Iraq war vet I understand it to a certain degree because it protects certain people from being descriminated against, or harmed while serving. The military isn't really a place that you can go around and wave your pride flag because there are people that come from all over the country that have different backgrounds and have never been around people like us.You have to be able to talk to people in a certain way and open their eyes and help them to realize we are all just people. On the other hand I don't agree with it because it's just another one of our human rights that are being taken away by our government and they should not be able to dictate what is right and wrong.
May 28 4:23 AM
Giovannii wrote:
Well I am Currently Serving in Iraq right Now, On my first tour in Iraq it is a 15 Month tour and we are 3/4 done with it and I am a Openly Gay Male. I did hide in fear while in training and basic But I slowly started coming out to my Close friends in My Duty Station in Germany and I soon realized That No one I have meet has stopped and feared me or hated Me Some dont understand but dont think less of me for it and treat me the same as any other soldier I got to know them and when They ask i said (Yes I am )I will not Hide Or Fear being WHo I am, I did it for years from certain family and will never go back there I am a adult and can choose my life and am proud of my self and I have the surport of everyone I work with I use it to lighten up the days with jokes laugher and me just making people laugh and sometimes I know I helped certain people make it through another day out here with a smile on their face since that can be hard at times out here. I am lucky that I have been welcomed and acepted so strongly by every other soldier I know and all the friends I have made and continue to make being a open gay male serving in the Military I get many people saying how they think I am very strong for being so open and not hiding or fearing or trying to be what every one else wants I dont fear this choice one day I only wonder if joining was the right choice for me not being honest with myself and others it feels great to know I can trust them and that they realy know who I am it is interesting since many guys ask me questions about being gay and I explain it and they actually learn and try to understand homosexuality better and not live by and think the stereotype most people hear or see in the movies.
May 27 3:09 PM
Skipperoo wrote:
I served in the military and honorably, albeit in the closet. I firmly believe that given the chance a majority of gay and lesbian would be honored to be able to serve their country. I think these days people are far more open to respect of other people's beliefs including orientation. The homophobic fear that by letting them serve, that they would disrupt and try to convert others is crazy. To those that are in uniform on this Memorial Day, I salute you! You do your country an honor that sometimes to few fail to do.
May 26 9:22 PM
swimr wrote:
The military went after me for DADT after I got back from duty in the Mid-East. I stayed silent, and luckily for me, they couldn't prove anything, but it was a humiliating experience and I essentially was outed to everyone who knew me. My sexuality had nothing to do with how I performed as a soldier. The current policy is discriminatory and does not protect or serve our national interests in any way.
May 26 6:16 PM
zi0nx5 wrote:
I just read this article this morning and it happens to be Memorial Day in the US. I wish I could share this article and (especially) the comments from the service men and women with my father, a retired Navy CPO who served for about 20 years more or less, but I'm not (yet) out to him or my mother for fear that they'd cut off financial support for my college tuition. He's a hardline Christian and said to me on several occasions when I was younger and in front of family at family reunions that gays should rot in hell.
But I wish I could share this page with him because it shows that the discrimination of LGBT in the military and public at large is all just based on flawed, ill-informed traditions and a misinterpretation of religious literature that's 2,500 years old, nothing more. And from the words of actual service men and women--not the politicians that just don't understand, these old rules simply hold no ground on or off the battlefields.
I'm a military-dependent. I'm always reminded whenever I see a service person in uniform like those in ROTC on the USC (Los Angeles) campus that they're putting their life on the line for whatever reasons they may have--may it be simply financial hardship, and/or to truly defend this nation; regardless of their personal reasons they all should be honored and respected equally and non-discriminately without regard for their gender identity, ethnicity, family background, religion, sexual orientation.
As the son of a military man, and on this Memorial Day, much due respect to those in active service and those who have served for the people of the USA.
May 26 5:18 PM
hotrod79 wrote:
I can honestly say that it was a pleasure for me to have served in the military. Sadly I did serve most of my time in the closet. But I took at risk near then end of my term and I started to come out to some people and found that they took it btter than I could have ever hoped for. Many people in the military don't care whether youare gay or straight. All they care for is that you do your job right and are there when you are needed. It's the policy makers that are afraid of what they think might happen because they come from an old world where this kind of stuff was not heard of. It is a new world out there and they need to adapt but they can't cus they are already set in their ways.
May 26 3:01 PM
renodude37 wrote:
I spent 8 1/2 year in the Army and I've never had a problem with my sexual oriantaiton while I was in. Of course, I didn't exactly broadcast it across the air ways. Every duty station I've been to, I've had several drunken encounters with someone who wasn't gay or maybe perhaps was just in the closet, non the less, until I got hurt and the military put me out on a medical (honerable) discharg, I've never been confronted with this policy. Of course I've never been put in a position where I've had to challange it or it has had to challange me. To me, the Don't ask, Don't tell policy is just a phrase on a piece of paper. It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't protect anybody or anything. Gay soldiers who are out or not are generaly the ones (individualy) who are gioing to have to decide what kind of life they want to lead in the military. They CHOSE to join an organization that has been around for 2 centuries, they have thier own traditions,codes and laws. If there is a day when gay soldiers can openley serve then Hole lu ya, but until that day comes, just serve the best you can.
May 26 3:00 PM
Mr_Waddles wrote:
Sadly I cannot serve due to many medical problems, I will say however, my time spent in Jr. ROTC was the best times of my life. I met many men and women that were gay and lesbian in my times spent on base for ISMT weapon training or even in my summer spent in Boot camp (extra credit for qualified individuals). Every day they risk their lives for us and everyday we take that for granted. I may only be 19 but I will say with all my heart that I love every soldier in every branch of service (regardless of my past experiences). It takes men and women of all creeds, religions, colors, and sexual orientation to keep this country safe. Even sitting here in my office chair I salute every single one of our men and women in the armed forces!
Darrell
May 26 2:43 PM
relax5 wrote:
Plenty of gay men and women serve the Military. I've met so many "family" during my time in the Marines. We do the same work put up with the same crap. When will some of these folks realize that we're not that different and that we're human beings. But I'm not giving up hope. One day it will be okay, for us.
May 26 2:24 PM
dmc75 wrote:
I never understood why Clinton put this policy in place. But, I am sorry to say this will never end. George Washington kicked out the first person for being gay in the military. There will always be hate and question about what gay men and women can do in combat. All we can do is prove everyone wrong and show the world we are strong and a lable will not keep us down. "What have you done today to make you feel Proud"
May 26 1:41 PM
PDSurfer wrote:
Unfortunately a California poll taken after this court ruling indicates that an initiative to amend the State of California constitution to outlaw same sex marriage is virtually certain to be on the ballot this coming November--and is (presently) very likely to pass. As I understand it, if this amendment passes, it will override the federal court ruling.
May 26 1:26 PM
Dante_redux wrote:
"Don't ask, Don't tell" is obviously a flawed policy upheld by the military and only services to undermine its efficiency. There are plenty of LGBT people whom would proudly fight for their country but are hindered by this policy that discriminates on the basis of who you are as a person.
Ultimately, it is irrelevant in the heat of battle to be concerned about an individual's sexual orientation. You are not going to be thinking of the queer next to you if you are fighting to save lives, least of all your own.
May 26 3:06 AM
ActiveAndFit wrote:
I am glad that the court noted that state anti gay sex laws were unconstitutional and therefore could not serve as a basis for DADT. I hope this helps anyone being processed out right now.
May 23 12:11 AM
findout wrote:
Yes, I can't wait till this stupid policy is dead... Hopefully it will see its demise soon...
May 22 9:26 PM
Jadamo wrote:
I live for the day when "DA,DT" gets burned in HELL!! And legal gay marriages in Texas.
May 22 6:49 PM