Dan Savage on Swinging and Monogamy

  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jun 23, 2010 11:05 PM GMT


    What do you think?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 24, 2010 1:18 AM GMT
    totes agree
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    Jun 24, 2010 1:33 AM GMT
    My bf and i check out guys all the time. Most the time he looks at me and says, "Really? Really... Wow, you have weird taste."

    I don't think either of us are for open relationships. He'd scratch their eyes out and I'd try to top them by being more manly icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 24, 2010 2:04 AM GMT
    Savage is brilliant and insightful - my b.f. and I both agree with him most of the time. We have no interest in / or need for anyone else in our lives. It took us a long time to find each other, and we each had a good amount of activity with others in our pasts. We've already sewn our wild oats with others, and we've gotten that out of our systems.
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    Jun 24, 2010 2:31 AM GMT
    The best relationship I ever had was open. Our personal sex life was awesome. Even after three years he'd still wake me up with a blow job...and vice versa if I woke up first (which was very seldom). We'd still be together if he'd gotten a job instead of being a beach bum every day.
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    Jun 24, 2010 2:54 AM GMT
    Regardless which route you take in your relationship, it comes down to trust and that doesn't come overnight though the desire to wanna sleep around can come in an instant. Not everyone is capable of developing that kind of trust. It takes a great deal of integrity and maturity to be in both an open or monogamouns relationship.
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    Jun 24, 2010 3:03 AM GMT
    He's got several valid points, but I think he should emphasize COMMUNICATION a bit more. Some of us are afraid to speak up and say "i want to open that door" or, conversely, "it hurts me when you venture down this route". Either way, a frank, open discussion with your partner about wants, desires, etc will go a long way in how you approach sex & sexuality as you mature.
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    Jun 24, 2010 7:58 AM GMT
    Part of an almost 8 year long relationship I had was open. It wasn't my idea but I went with it. Everything was fine until we were at a bath house and he watched me with two other guys. Afterward, he became uncomfortable with the idea and didn't want it open any longer.

    My last relationship, which was only about three months (or longer, I suppose, if you count the continued sex), started out poorly. He was with another guy and it was most definitely an open relationship but he left that guy for me. He claimed he wanted a monogamous relationship. It wasn't long before he said he wanted an open relationship. I said maybe if we played together on occasion. But he said it was completely open or not at all. I said not at all. It didn't work out. I never quite understood why because we had sex a minimum of twice a day and one of the reasons we continued having sex after we broke up was because it was awesome.

    Based on my experiences with open relationships, I'm leery of them. Maybe I just haven't found the "right" guy to have this sort of relationships with but I tend toward monogamy. I guess I would have to hear something different from a guy to make me think it could be open and work.
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    Jun 24, 2010 8:26 AM GMT
    Dan Savage has becoming a PNW and Seattle institution. This is a clip of a aid public speaking gig almost out of context. Dan would always say talk and work out yer shit, but... then maybe open it up, a bit or more if you can handle it. Relationship level injection of a fresh new thing???
    I have always been told once you "open it up" the relationship is a gonner. In reality it was already in many cases. I also have buds who have opens and both take full advantage of the gig and are solid 20 year partners.
  • coastguy90814

    Posts: 661

    Jun 24, 2010 8:59 AM GMT
    Delivis said

    What do you think?


    Well, he's a bit of a joke and DEFINITELY has an agenda to fit his beliefs, FEELINGS, and views AND he thinks we are mere animals just like the anima l world. He's bought in to that sentiment, we are just like all other animals as opposed to thinking humans just might have an edge or be a bit different. I believe monogamy can last either a lifetime or in increments just as relationships are. I don't think it's necessarily healthy to go into a relationship thinking there is a possibility for infedility...BECAUSE IT WILL HAPPEN. Monogamy can run it's course just like relationships but does this mean you go into a partnership or relationship saying it's okay for infedility? Absolutely not. Let the relationship take it's course and see what happens, when you meet someone you desire and want to be with, the goal is to want to be with that one person, set your bar there and if it comes to a point in time when desires are different, then be mature enough to have that conversation.
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    Jun 24, 2010 9:08 AM GMT
    I have had sex with guys. I play safe. I got a clean bill of health today......I have never really had a bf that I can say was a mutual deal. It was a little one sided.....I am not sure if I ever will.....I am ok with it
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    Jun 24, 2010 9:33 AM GMT
    This is a popular topic around here, as it should be.

    There are a lot of (mostly young) men striving for this ideal relationship where both mates are monogamous, and where every day is as wonderful as the first. Well, kids, it just doesn't work that way.

    Communication, respect, understanding, trust. It's all about integrity and having a firm grasp of love's principles. You have a moral obligation to yourself and to your partner to open up and listen to each others wants and needs.
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    Jun 24, 2010 10:42 AM GMT
    wow, that was original. lot to think about
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    Jun 24, 2010 11:49 AM GMT
    I’ve watched the clip twice and I generally agree with him, but I’m not sure how I feel about his discussion on cheating. I think people are capable of monogamous fidelity. He’s suggesting slips happen, and I think he overstates his case where he suggests (at least implicitly) that slips are inevitable not just in the overall run of couples, but for each couple as well. I think the closest where he comes to saying so explicitly is the part where he says that a man who cheated only 3 or 4 times over the course of a lifetime monogamous relationship was good at monogamy. That claim, strictly speaking, would not imply that men can’t go without cheating, but rather that men who do so are several standard deviations away from the mean, which perhaps he meant but it’s not very clear. Even then I think it would likely be overstating things.

    I think his central point about cheating (or perhaps I’m just rationalizing his discussion) is one he left too implicit – that cheating in itself is not a problem where it represents a simple lapse in judgment. Not cheating demonstrates honesty and loyalty, but there are other ways spouses might be dishonest without it breaking the relationship or generating so much heartache, and I think Savage is trying to point out that if it’s not symptomatic of larger relationship problems, i.e., if it’s only a momentary weakness, and if it has no adverse health consequences (something I would prefer people to mention explicitly in these discussions) then the cheating shouldn’t be relationship-ending since many other violations of trust wouldn’t be either.

    I think my interpretation is correct, but if so then he assumed his audience was more sophisticated on these matters than a general audience likely would be since he left so much unsaid.

    edit: of course on the other hand, if he said it my way nobody would pay him to appear, haha
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:14 PM GMT
    Personally... I used to believe in the possibility of monogamy... untill I met the love of my life and it turned out a complete disaster!!!

    I still believe that monogamy is possible for everyone, however, I do not think it is the natural order of things in any way!!!! Even the Old Testament talked of polygamy like it was something normal.... and ALL tribal cultures accept it (polygamy or promiscuity) to some degree... even if there is monogamy, its usually just serial...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_sexual_behaviour
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:19 PM GMT
    I don't always agree with every single thing he says, but he does make some great interesting points that make you think about things in a different way than the way society is taught to believe.

    I have to admit though there is something about him that I find so damn hot and the more I hear him speak the more I want to rip his fucking clothes off!!! lmao!!!
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    Jun 24, 2010 12:30 PM GMT
    I listen to his podcasts weekly where he answers questions listeners leave on a message machine. He isn't a big fan of monogamy but is a big fan of honesty. I think there are some basic differences in people, male and female. Some men can separate sex from intimacy and love and others can't. Some can form lifelong bonds and some can't. It may be genetic...there are evolutionary benefits to all these variations.

    Monogamy works for my partner and I in this phase of our lives. We met in our early 50s, with stable mental health and both financially secure. I know this is not the average, but in our case our similarities became our strengths.

    Is it me..or is the guy in the middle uncomfortable?

    10.jpg
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    Jun 24, 2010 1:09 PM GMT
    Sorry guys, turned it off when he said, "Monogamy is never easy."

    Not true,
    At.
    All.

    -Doug

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    Jun 24, 2010 1:32 PM GMT
    Just to put him in context, since the clip is somewhat incomplete. He is not in favor of dishonesty.

    I agree with him in the sense that I think there is nothing wrong with a bit of mutual experimentation in a relationship if both partners are on board. Inviting a third every once in a while can be part of a healthy sex life. It is like sharing a nice sex toy that just happens to be alive.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jun 24, 2010 1:34 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Bigsmiles said....Is it me..or is the guy in the middle uncomfortable?

    10.jpg[/quote]

    and i thought i was the only one who noticed this! icon_lol.gif
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    Jun 24, 2010 1:43 PM GMT
    meninlove said Sorry guys, turned it off when he said, "Monogamy is never easy."

    Not true,
    At.
    All.

    -Doug



    Agree. Relationships take works, but being monogamous with the right person is not something you work for, it's just the way things are.
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    Jun 24, 2010 1:50 PM GMT
    viveutvivas saidJust to put him in context, since the clip is somewhat incomplete. He is not in favor of dishonesty.

    I agree with him in the sense that I think there is nothing wrong with a bit of mutual experimentation in a relationship if both partners are on board. Inviting a third every once in a while can be part of a healthy sex life. It is like sharing a nice sex toy that just happens to be alive.

    Bingo--there are differences in these terms being thrown around like adultery, infidelity, and cheating. "Adultery" is any sex that includes at least 1 party outside of a (technically) legally married couple, whether consensual or not. But you can remain loyal, open and honest with your partner if both agree in advance that might or will happen. "Cheating" is when you've gone beyond the scope of your actions that you mutually agreed to.
    I don't necessarily think opening up a couple's sexual relationship will "freshen" things up, unless both partners are equally compatible with that philosophy. I can't count the endless examples where 1 partner was for it and the other wasn't, but simply gave in and ended up miserable.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jun 24, 2010 1:58 PM GMT
    i'm 2 years into the first LTR of my gay life. although i do a LOT of looking and drooling and thinking; in my "heart of hearts" i don't believe i could get naked and have sex with another man other than my bf. icon_eek.gif

    my bf agrees, jokingly saying that i have "put a voodoo spell on him" that makes him not want to have sex with other guys. icon_lol.gif

    now, a mutually agreed on guy and a 3 way (with this fantasy guy and my bf and I) is another thing...we have done this twice (so far) and enjoyed it/him/us with no hard feelings after. icon_twisted.gif

    is this what DS advocatesicon_question.gif
  • yogadudeSEATT...

    Posts: 373

    Jun 24, 2010 2:10 PM GMT
    Dan is a friend of mine and I consider him very wise both onstage and off. Thanks for posting!
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    Jun 24, 2010 2:17 PM GMT
    I like how he compared human sex to that of all animals...in part he ignores the emotional aspect of sex and monogamy. Of course it's not easy to be monogamous, but I did it for 5 years...it's possible...I think open relationships are often for two people that want their cake and eat it too. My gut reaction tells me open relationships aren't for the best.

    Nobodys perfect, but mongamy is easier and builds are more solid relationship.