Trying to turn a negative into a positive

  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Jun 24, 2010 5:35 AM GMT
    To make a long story short, my dating life has been pretty bad of late. The most recent negative was being told -- very politely -- by a guy I was rather interested in that he doesn't find me attractive. Not fun to hear, but way better than trying to read the tea leaves if he had said something more like a brush off. Still, in conjunction with other recent events like being stood up by a guy I'd driven an hour to have dinner with, it was a less than pleasant experience.

    Obviously, I have no control over what he finds attractive (though it surprised me at least a little given that he actually looks an awful lot like me). Everyone has their own tastes, and better to acknowledge them than to go out with a guy you're not actually interested in, hoping it would develop. But it has also caused me to think, alright, if this is not attractive, what would be required to be? Not necessarily for him, but for the general pool of gay men in their 20s and 30s. My face is what it is, and though I have specific fitness goals for myself that I care about reaching for my own sake, it's also just simple fact that part of why I'm working out is to be more attractive to the guys I'd like to date.

    So, I turn to you, the men of RealJock. In your collective opinions, what physical changes would make more attractive, and thus more likely to land the dates I've been aiming for? I've updated my pictures so that the first few are from the past week, and show what I look like both with little in the way of clothing, and what I dress like on a normal day. Be as harsh as you like -- I'm specifically asking for criticism here, and I've got a thick enough skin to take it. Help me salvage something useful from this.
  • JimJim

    Posts: 58

    Jun 24, 2010 5:48 AM GMT
    Well I personally think that you are pretty good looking.


    But if I had to say anything, maybe try wearing contacts instead of glasses? I feel like you have nice eyes and you might look better without the glasses.


    Also, I your older haircut looks better, the one with your hair more grown out and a bit more curly/wavy.


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    Jun 24, 2010 7:12 AM GMT
    Well, you know I think you're cute =)

    I like your new pics. It seems like you only have some tweaking left, like the things everyone could improve - firmer stomach and larger deltoids. You're actually pretty proportional and your calves aren't skinny, which I like.

    Maybe the problem is in your styling? I'm not a fashion expert anymore (although I was in college, haha), but the yellow shirt isn't a very flattering color. Maybe just have more fun shirts like the Superman t (even though it was a halloween costume...). I don't know how common they are in MI, but those khaki shorts would be very out here in nyc. Either full-length jeans or jean short are in here, and I can't pull off the jean-short look. Maybe you can, but I prefer jeans anyway.

    Don't feel bad about those guys, btw. Earlier this year, maybe around the beginning of the summer, I had a guy ask me for more pics the day we were to meet. I thought he was just impatient or whatever, but in retrospect he was still making up his mind since when we did meet up, he simply declared, "I'm sorry, but I'm not into it," and that was that. It was better than reading tea leaves, as you've said.
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    Jun 24, 2010 10:15 AM GMT
    Don't want to sound superficial here, but if you REALLY feel strong enough to change appearance/style, I was thinking contact lense, maybe try a different style haircut, and sometimes a bit of facial hair can make a big difference in look. Personally I see nothing wrong with making changes to increase your dating pool, of course that is if your prioritize that over being yourself. (Having big Chest & Biceps always helps, but theres no instant fix for that @@)
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    Jun 24, 2010 2:04 PM GMT
    I think you have a very decent body.
    I find the contrast jock/nerd attractive in itself.

    Self confidence, as in feeling ok with what you are and what you look, increase your 'attractiveness' big time, but you can't change what you are.

    In my experience, guy with a bit of insecurity can be very good long term relationship material, because the lack of arrogance and self centered admiration makes them more open to others.

    Just enjoy the self doubt, it's one of the best motivator to work hard at improving yourself, while keeping enough humility to be a decent person, even when you will obtain a killer body ;-)
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Jun 25, 2010 12:47 AM GMT
    From the response thus far:

    I'm not necessarily looking short term -- changes in the body take time, and effort, but are at least somewhat lasting. And while insecurity can be a motivator, motivators are only useful if there is a target goal.

    Glasses are pretty much set. My optometrist has told me that with my particular vision problems, contacts are a bad idea. I rely primarily on vision from one of my eyes, and therefore the possible cost to my vision if something went wrong with contacts is relatively higher than normal. I've been evaluated for laser surgery, and told that I was the worst candidate for the procedure that specialist had seen in the past 10 years, and that if I insisted on having it done I'd have to go elsewhere, as he couldn't in good conscience perform it on me. That was a strong indicator, I'd think, that trying it would be stupid. Shape of the glasses I'm willing to be flexible on -- I think I'm due for new glasses this summer anyway -- but the existence of the glasses is not particularly up for debate.

    Hair style is fully negotiable. I despise the feeling of having any sort of hair product in it, but I have no particular attachment to the shape of the haircut. I just want something low maintenance.

    I'm certainly no fashion plate. ;) The khaki shorts were actually in direct response to a number of my gay friends giving me a hard time about the fact that I wear denim shorts. I like that particular yellow shirt, but I'm more often found in blue, green, purple, gray, red, or black. That just happened to be the shirt I wore the day I decided to take the pictures.

    As for the idea of compromising who I am, I guess I just don't feel that the shape of my body is a fundamental part of who I am. There are a range of body types I find attractive, and I'm willing to move about within that range to line up with the preferences of others as well. For example, I don't find the extreme levels of muscle found in body builders attractive, and would never even try to turn myself into one of those, even if that's what a majority wanted. But the differences in builds from a soccer player to a swimmer to a dancer, for example, are all within what I find attractive, and I have no qualms of moving more towards one than another if that's what most gay guys my age prefer. So I'd be willing to pay more attention to my chest or my back or my rear or whatnot if that's an area that's more lacking at the moment.
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    Jun 25, 2010 12:52 AM GMT
    Stop focusing on your appearance and address what is on the inside. Be confident in yourself and people will take notice. Its what is on the inside that counts.
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    Jun 25, 2010 1:17 AM GMT
    You're a good looking guy. Don't worry to much on that.

    Just become the best man that you desire to be, and that will help in attracting the kind of guy that you seek.

    Also, consider where you are meeting guys. Consider leveraging both the online and real world environments to meet people who you "click" with. The rest will happen from there.

    I've found that by not "actively looking", I tend to attract more guys that way.

    I just live my life, loving my life, with me, and for me. And, if I happen to meet others along the way with whom I can share my happiness, gifts, and talents, then it's a "double-happiness".

    Aloha and Be Well!
    Alan
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    Jun 25, 2010 1:25 AM GMT
    catfish5 saidStop focusing on your appearance and address what is on the inside. Be confident in yourself and people will take notice. Its what is on the inside that counts.


    I realize you mean well, but I think your advice is unhelpful. MSUBioNerd isn’t having difficulty attracting guys because he hasn’t addressed what’s on the inside (he has a great personality and mind), and it’s completely unrealistic to think that appearance doesn’t affect attractiveness. I happen to believe that once you’ve invested in a relationship, appearance can come to matter less, but at the relationship’s onset it is a very important factor.

    ~~~~
    As for the shorts, I know denim shorts used to be very out. But now they’re all I see on the streets, and even in the gay bars, if someone’s wearing shorts, it’s denim shorts. They’re always ripped at the bottom, btw, so they look like someone took a plain pair of jeans as simply ripped off the legs at the knees.
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    Jun 25, 2010 2:05 AM GMT
    people who say "pie in the sky" phrases like "just be yourself ... look inside" are not being realistic. You can be the smartest nicest guy but if a guy or girl doesnt find you attractive from the start chances are he she wont date you, unless the other person finds you beautiful inside and wants to date you for all the right reasons (which only happens after they know you well, but how will they get to know you well if they arent willing to get within 2 feet from you?)

    Looking at you, here's my take on it.

    lose the glasses. they are not flattering for you facial features. Since you are ruling contacts out, or lasik surgery out, you have to change those frames. I'd still say that you should get other optometrists opinions to see if you could become a candidate in the near future. If you do lots of research as a phd student, your vision likely keeps changing every year and it may get a little worse, but usually doctors will operate on you if you're vision remains unchanged or little changed in 2-3 yrs. Until then, you should go shopping for new frames that are smaller and more hip. Take a good friend that you know will tell you you look ugly if you do and go shopping to a "trendy" frames place. You are very very pasty white, so getting glasses with no rim or silver rim might not work out. Try some dark glasses and make sure you get someone who knows about frames and face shape. Some frames look better with round faces/oval/ or linear facial features. Your face is a little rounded and those BIG round glasses you have are no good,. Look for some smaller rectangular thin glasses and try on a couple. Bring a friend or two with you that you know will be brutal honest. Last thing you want is to spend 200+ dollars on glasses that make you look stupid.

    get a better haircut. I don't know nothing about how much uou pay or where you get it cut, but you're haircut looks like something you got done at quick super cuts for 12 bucks. Your hair is thinning and makes your forehead look big a little bit, so grow out your hair just a tiny bit and play with it. Get a professional who knows about hair so they can show you how to style it. Hair can make a HUGE difference on a person's sex appeal. Make sure it is well groomed and does not look greasy. In one pic you have curly hair, so don't let it grow out too much cuz it will look like unruly. But a good haircut with wavy hair can add volume to the appearance of thinnin hair at the top. Also you might want to consider getting highlights or going 2 shades lighter. it may work or not, but at least youll try it. either way, i think haircut is more important than color.

    smile more.and i mean showing teeth. none of your pics show your smile except one that you can't see anyway. if you don't smile bbecause your teeth are crooked, consider invisalign. and whiten your teeth too with those 30 dollar kits at the drugstore.

    start hitting the gym and eating more. you look way too skinny for most gays. read up on muscle building (do some research on how to change your body for a change from the science books) or get a personal trainer (a lot of PTs can be full of shit if you ask me, just read up on caloric intake and muscle building. sleep, food, and weights should be good friends if you want your body to change). don't increase your cal intake too high because you will get fat. if you are 6'0 160, my guess is you should be at least eating 2500 cals a day and after you start training it should go up incrementally to 3000 and 3250, 3500. read up on workouts for a begginner you should prolly stick to a 3-day split. day one chest/tri day 2 legs day 3 back/biceps day 4 abs or just rest and keep that up for at least 8-12 weeks before changing up the workout routine. 3 days gym 1 day rest. I think that 20 pounds of muscle (or 17lb muscle 3-5 lbs of well placed fat) would do wonders for your physique

    please dont wear speedos, and dont show a potential bf a pic of you in speedos. at least until you are sure he likes you enough to overlook that

    please dont wear superman shirts. It might be cute to ppl who know you and are firends/family or if you are in halloween or if you are a superbuff cocky guy with lots of confidence. since you don't fit that definition yet keep those shirts or any other mascot/comic theme clothes you have for use at home exclusively or for pajama wear (when you are sleeping alone only ....or if you are sleeping with ur bf who knows your quirky side)

    forget about ppl saying dont wear yellow purple or whatever. i dont think colors matter that much. a skinny guy in a yellow shirt is just as good as a skinny guy in a gray shirt. besides it's ok to have some light colors. you are not 60 and your scloset should not be filled with white and black shirts only

    find some crazy sane ppl to hang out with. you strike me as a really nice guy who is too shy and needs to loosed up. Im not saying you need to whore yourself up but ocassionally go out and have a blast with friends. there are way uglier ppl than you getting laid (well alcohol has a lot to do with that) that doesnt mean you should start drinking but def get out more.

    dont talk to ppl about science or your latest research unless they truly want to know. keep things light. everyone is attracted to a smart brain but you have to dumb it down enough to keep a regular guy interested. learn something about sports or other stuff you would like that guys in a sports bar or other places might be more fam iliar with

    try growing stubble if you have faical hair (just to see how it looks) and post pics

    make sure your breath doesnt stink. that can drive ppl away even if you dont know it. and most ppl wont tell you you have it, they will just go away and talk behind your back

    if you are in campus, joing the LGTB club or the local pflag group or some other place where decent ppl hang out. You seem like a softie so you're prolly looking for a softie guy who wants a relationship. if you go to a bar or bathhouses, you wont find ppl with a lot in common. but if you go to the local school LTGB gropu, you'll make gay friends who will start hunting and trying to match you with other ppl. Pflag group also might get you a good bf whose mom or dad or sister thinks you are just the right smart decent guy for his gay son/borther who is also decent and vanilla



  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Jun 25, 2010 2:28 AM GMT
    -change the glasses. I think this is a bit paramount. Take some friends and maybe they can help you decide on the new pair. I would suggest Prada, CK, etc.....just so you know you are getting a good style.

    -hey, maybe get a bit of a tan. As many have said, you're a good looking guy. Perhaps all you need is just a bit of a makeover.

    -the curly hair is a winning look on you.

    -you look good in a tie, so perhaps a dressed up look is the look for you.


    Sad to say, just because you look good, doesn't mean the guy that you meet won't be a total jerk.

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    Jun 25, 2010 2:31 AM GMT
    The contacts are a good suggestion and just keep hitting the gym. You're slim so you have that going for you but the more muscle you put on the more you'll get guys' attention. Who can resist a smokin' hot muscled up nerd? I can't. icon_cool.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 2:48 AM GMT
    I think, as a guy who's always battled his weight, that your body is very attractive, nicely muscled, still slender but that is not matched by your facial expression.

    Your facial expression in all 4 new pics is the same blah-I-really-don't want-to-do-this look and your posture also doesn't scream do-me!.

    20 years ago I had a photo-session to have many, many naked pix taken and afterwards the photographer told me, that there is this disconnect between my body and my face, my expression doesn't look as 'inviting' as my body.

    You are asking the wrong questions. What needs to change so that YOU find yourself attractive? Would you date yourself in your current state? Would you date the guy in the new pix?




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    Jun 25, 2010 2:49 AM GMT
    Well by now you've pretty much read everyone's opinions. Here's mine;
    Don't base your self-worth and attractiveness because this guy didn't find you attractive. That's just ONE guy. We ALL think you're goodlooking so majority wins.
    Second, and this might be controversial to the others who gave you their take-i say KEEP the glasses. Just get better-looking ones, like those black 1950's wayfarer like glasses. They're very in, and would flatter your face.
    And play up the nerdy look. I Love nerds!!!! icon_cool.gif
    Keep working out, bulk up a little.
    And finally.....enjoy being single. Relationships are so overrated.
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    Jun 25, 2010 2:58 AM GMT
    Tell the world to fuck off. Works for me!
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    Jun 25, 2010 2:59 AM GMT
    Hmm the only thing I would probably say that needs fixing is your glasses. The style you have is looks a bit old..and personally I think it makes you look a bit older than you really are. Find something that is more stylish..and something that makes you look your age (I don't want to say younger cause..maybe you don't want to look *young*)

    I agree with whoever mentioned the frames..get a pair that help stand out and not blend in with your skin color.

  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Jun 25, 2010 3:03 AM GMT
    catfish5 saidStop focusing on your appearance and address what is on the inside. Be confident in yourself and people will take notice. Its what is on the inside that counts.


    Find the fun, playful child inside you, and slap it.
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:12 AM GMT
    I find you very attractive. You have an intellectual look to you... I wouldn't ditch the glasses though, perhaps new frames?

    I am going to be honest with you... I didn't realize how young you were.

    I pictured you more in your mid 30's to early 40's. I don't mean this as an insult. Perhaps I am biased because--based on your posts--I see you as being very mature and sophisticated.

    My Advice:
    1. Change the frames of your glasses (glasses are hot on guys in my opinion)
    2. Update your wardrobe (dress classy, sophisticated and current)
    3. Change your hair style.
    http://www.hairfinder.com/menshair.htm
    4. Pay attention to your posture.

    You'd be golden! Of course... bottom line... all of these things are surface issues and matter very little in long-term relationships... but they do help to catch the attention of other guys.
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:14 AM GMT
    Well I think you're attractive but maybe you could fake tan, there's a lot of products that you could buy, like Jergens Natural Glow, orNeutrogena build-a-tan. That's my piece of advise icon_smile.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:15 AM GMT
    LatinTwink saidWell I think you're attractive but maybe you could fake tan, there's a lot of products that you could buy, like Jergens Natural Glow, or the Neutrogena build-a-tan. That's my piece of advise icon_smile.gif


    I dunno, I've tried them...it's basically moisturizing body glitter icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:19 AM GMT
    Ciarsolo saidTell the world to fuck off. Works for me!


    That works when you have the looks of a Greek god my friend...icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:21 AM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    Ciarsolo saidTell the world to fuck off. Works for me!


    That works when you have the looks of a Greek god my friend...icon_wink.gif


    I should have clarified that by 'works' I meant isolates me completely from absolutely all human contact, which is what my life is icon_razz.gif But it helps to not give a damn.
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:21 AM GMT
    Ciarsolo said
    LatinTwink saidWell I think you're attractive but maybe you could fake tan, there's a lot of products that you could buy, like Jergens Natural Glow, or the Neutrogena build-a-tan. That's my piece of advise icon_smile.gif


    I dunno, I've tried them...it's basically moisturizing body glitter icon_razz.gif


    well yeah that's what I didn't like about the Jergens, the glittery stuff, but if you use it an hour before taking a shower, the glittery stuff comes off, I liked it but it smells kinda weird LOL and the Neutrogena built-a-tan isn't glittery but it's kinda orangey but it's still looks natural, I wish I was naturally tan!!!icon_evil.gif

    But they both give you a natural color, I preferred the Jergens, the only think I didn't like was the glitter stuff but people always complimented me saying you look bronze what did you do? LOL
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:29 AM GMT
    At the end of the day... for me, what's more attractive than muscles, clothes, or hairstyles? Brains.

    "I'm a PhD student at MSU, studying evolutionary biology."

    --MSUBioNerd

    Have you considered that maybe you are not properly looking for your ideal partner? Are you attracting (or attracted to) jackasses?
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    Jun 25, 2010 3:35 AM GMT
    Ciarsolo said
    conscienti1984 said
    Ciarsolo saidTell the world to fuck off. Works for me!


    That works when you have the looks of a Greek god my friend...icon_wink.gif


    I should have clarified that by 'works' I meant isolates me completely from absolutely all human contact, which is what my life is icon_razz.gif But it helps to not give a damn.


    That's sad... well the fisrt part of your post. But if being alone makes you happy... that's all that matters. I'm alone a lot, and it's not all that fun... for me at least.