Anti-Gay Pastor Ain't so Anti After All

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 25, 2010 10:49 AM GMT
    Minneapolis Pastor Tom Brock made a whole bunch of waves by suggesting that the twister was God's retribution for the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America voting at its national convention in Minneapolis that day to take up -- and pass -- a resolution that allows for openly gay clergy could serve as ministers.
    http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/06/pastor_tom_broc.php

    The Gay magazine Lavender went under cover to a Gay Conversion meeting
    Friend of Dorothy - Friend of Bill type 12 Step program
    and guess who was there?
    Yep - none other than Rev Fire and Brimstone

    The original outing article
    http://www.lavendermagazine.com/

    This raises the question
    Do the ends justify the means?
    Is exposing a friggin' hypocrite like Pastor Brock worth infiltrating a 12 step program?
    I say absolutely because the lying and deceit like he had perpetrated completely negates the reason for the 12 step process in the first place
    What do you guys think?


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    Jun 25, 2010 11:34 AM GMT
    Normally, I would say that a 12-step meeting is sacrosanct. But using such a group to "free" yourself from being gay is a) not possible and b) dangerous to perpetuate because those who are confused or ashamed of their sexuality may cause themselves harm when they're not "cured."
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    Jun 25, 2010 4:04 PM GMT
    A Lutheran pastor named Brock
    Preached hatred and lies to his flock.
    But now, he's left pouting
    Because of his outing.
    Apparently, Brock likes the cock.

    I'm a little uncomfortable with the method, but fuck it...Brock is one of the biggest enemies of our community.
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    Jun 25, 2010 4:34 PM GMT
    OtterJoq saidA Lutheran pastor named Brock
    Preached hatred and lies to his flock.
    But now, he's left pouting
    Because of his outing.
    Apparently, Brock likes the cock.

    I'm a little uncomfortable with the method, but fuck it...Brock is one of the biggest enemies of our community.


    I like the limerick. The scansion of the last line works better this way

    A Lutheran pastor named Brock
    Preached hatred and lies to his flock.
    But now he's left pouting
    Because of his outing
    And everyone knows he likes cock.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 25, 2010 4:36 PM GMT
    How many times have we seen this kind of thing... political, religous.
    Hyprocrites come in all shapes and sizes.
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    Jun 25, 2010 4:47 PM GMT
    'You are your own worst enemy." It's sad to see, yet again, that a lot of times our biggest obstacles are our own kind (i.e. Brock, g0ys, etc) It shows the power of internalized homophobia and self hatred. Even more reason for each of us to live as open and authentic a life as we can. It's easy for the ignorant to hate who they don't know, especially when we have self-destructive members of our own kind adding fuel to the fire because they hate themselves so much.

    I don't feel bad when people in positions of power and influence who are being wreck less with the lives of others are outed. Those positions have unique responsibilities and are not the place for them to work out their personal issues.

    Unlike Brock we should all be real men, living open and honestly with no shame!
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    Jun 25, 2010 6:24 PM GMT
    Lostboy said
    OtterJoq saidA Lutheran pastor named Brock
    Preached hatred and lies to his flock.
    But now, he's left pouting
    Because of his outing.
    Apparently, Brock likes the cock.

    I'm a little uncomfortable with the method, but fuck it...Brock is one of the biggest enemies of our community.


    I like the limerick. The scansion of the last line works better this way

    A Lutheran pastor named Brock
    Preached hatred and lies to his flock.
    But now he's left pouting
    Because of his outing
    And everyone knows he likes cock.

    icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 8:53 PM GMT
    Whenever I encounter someone who is over-the-top hostile about gays, I immediate conclude they're likely gay themselves.

    I guess, in a strange and sad way, it makes some sense:

    Deep down you know you're gay. . . but you don't want to be gay. . .

    So you're in denial. . .

    And one way to stay in denial is to convince yourself that you hate gays, try to deny them their rights, etc. . .

    Because if you hate them, and particularly if you're outspoken about it. . . well, then, you can't possibly be gay, can you???



  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Jun 25, 2010 8:56 PM GMT
    Denial and pineapple make it taste better. mmmmm denial. delicious, sweet denial.
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    Jun 25, 2010 9:02 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidWhenever I encounter someone who is over-the-top hostile about gays, I immediate concluded they're likely gay themselves.

    I guess, in a strange and sad way, it makes some sense:

    Deep down you know you're gay. . . but you don't want to be gay. . .

    So you're in denial. . .

    And one way to stay in denial is to convince yourself that you hate gays, try to deny them their rights, etc. . .

    Because if you hate them, and particularly if you're outspoken about it. . . well, then, you can't possibly be gay, can you???






    Excellent point. I often think the same thing. There is a really great documentary called Outrage about closeted politicians who take an anti-gay stance as a way to deal with their own self hatred. Very much worth watching. Here is a trailer to it:


    [url]/url]






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    Jun 25, 2010 9:04 PM GMT
    Knock, knock

    Whose there?

    Cleopatra

    Cleopatra who?

    Cleopatra....Queen of De Nile
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    Jun 25, 2010 10:23 PM GMT
    You know... I'm not into "outing". I was outed at work by a fucked up lesbian... but I learned my private life wasn't really as interesting to people as I thought.

    People like this prick are the worst sort of human. I hate hypocrites, I hope the sex tapes come out too.

    However, he did actually state he was against "openly gay" ministers serving... not closeted ones.
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    Jun 25, 2010 10:25 PM GMT
    sdgman saidYou know... I'm not into "outing". I was outed at work by a fucked up lesbian... but I learned my private life wasn't really as interesting to people as I thought.

    People like this prick are the worst sort of human. I hate hypocrites, I hope the sex tapes come out too.

    However, he did actually state he was against "openly gay" ministers serving... not closeted ones.



    Well if he is only against "openly gay" ministers, I guess he's not such a hypocrite then, is he? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jun 25, 2010 10:31 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidWhenever I encounter someone who is over-the-top hostile about gays, I immediate concluded they're likely gay themselves.

    I guess, in a strange and sad way, it makes some sense:

    Deep down you know you're gay. . . but you don't want to be gay. . .

    So you're in denial. . .

    And one way to stay in denial is to convince yourself that you hate gays, try to deny them their rights, etc. . .

    Because if you hate them, and particularly if you're outspoken about it. . . well, then, you can't possibly be gay, can you???


    It's called a reaction formation and its occurrence is so frequent you can almost always assume anyone taking a radical "moral" stand is in the grip of one.

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    Jun 25, 2010 10:36 PM GMT
    Outing is typically a very destructive thing to do, and is generally IMO wrong. However, when those in power positions use that influence to harm others it is justified. Just as if a crooked politician's personal finances are leaked showing he has defrauded the public.

    The distinction for me is private citizens, vs public. He chose to place himself in the spotlight and become a devisive public figure.

    BTW if you out yourself, no one else can do it for you.
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    Jun 25, 2010 10:40 PM GMT
    ObsceneWish said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidWhenever I encounter someone who is over-the-top hostile about gays, I immediate concluded they're likely gay themselves.

    I guess, in a strange and sad way, it makes some sense:

    Deep down you know you're gay. . . but you don't want to be gay. . .

    So you're in denial. . .

    And one way to stay in denial is to convince yourself that you hate gays, try to deny them their rights, etc. . .

    Because if you hate them, and particularly if you're outspoken about it. . . well, then, you can't possibly be gay, can you???


    It's called a reaction formation and its occurrence is so frequent you can almost always assume anyone taking a radical "moral" stand is in the grip of one.



    I always wondered if this sort of pathology was accompanied by a name or designation. Interesting. Thanks.
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    Jun 25, 2010 10:49 PM GMT
    Reaction formation, as described by Wikipedia. Really, this is worth a read, particularly the last two paragraphs:


    In psychoanalytic theory, reaction formation is a defensive process (defense mechanism) in which anxiety-producing or unacceptable emotions and impulses are mastered by exaggeration (hypertrophy) of the directly opposing tendency.

    Reaction formation depends on the hypothesis that

    "[t]he instincts and their derivatives may be arranged as pairs of opposites: life versus death, construction versus destruction, action versus passivity, dominance versus submission, and so forth. When one of the instincts produces anxiety by exerting pressure on the ego either directly or by way of the superego, the ego may try to sidetrack the offending impulse by concentrating upon its opposite. For example, if feelings of hate towards another person make one anxious, the ego can facilitate the flow of love to conceal the hostility."

    Where reaction-formation takes place, it is usually assumed that the original, rejected impulse does not vanish, but persists, unconscious, in its original infantile form. Thus, where love is experienced as a reaction formation against hate, we cannot say that love is substituted for hate, because the original aggressive feelings still exist underneath the affectionate exterior that merely masks the hate to hide it from awareness.

    In a diagnostic setting, the existence of a reaction-formation rather than a 'simple' emotion would be suspected where exaggeration, compulsiveness and inflexibility were observed. For example,

    "[r]eactive love protests too much; it is overdone, extravagant, showy, and affected. It is counterfeit, and [...] is usually easily detected. Another feature of a reaction formation is its compulsiveness. A person who is defending himself against anxiety cannot deviate from expressing the opposite of what he really feels. His love, for instance, is not flexible. It cannot adapt itself to changing circumstances as genuine emotions do; rather it must be constantly on display as if any failure to exhibit it would cause the contrary feeling to come to the surface.

    Reaction formation is sometimes described as one of the most difficult defenses for lay people to understand;[1] this testifies not merely to its effectiveness as a disguise, but also to its ubiquity and flexibility as a defense that can be utilized in many forms. For example,

    "solicitude may be a reaction-formation against cruelty, cleanliness against coprophilia",

    and it is not unknown for an analyst to explain a client's unconditional pacifism as a reaction formation against their sadism. In addition,

    "[h]igh ideals of virtue and goodness may be reaction formations against primitive object cathexes rather than realistic values that are capable of being lived up to. Romantic notions of chastity and purity may mask crude sexual desires, altruism may hide selfishness, and piety may conceal sinfulness."

    Even more counter-intuitively, according to this model

    "[a] phobia is an example of a reaction formation. The person wants what he fears. He is not afraid of the object;he is afraid of the wish for the object. The reactive fear prevents the dreaded wish from being fulfilled.[3]

    The concept of reaction formation has been used to explain responses to external threats as well as internal anxieties. In the phenomenon described as Stockholm Syndrome, a hostage or kidnap victim 'falls in love' with the feared and hated person who has complete power over them. Similarly paradoxical reports exist of powerless and vulnerable inmates of Nazi camps creating 'favourites' among the guards and even collecting objects discarded by them.

    The mechanism of reaction formation is often characteristic of obsessional neuroses. When this mechanism is overused, especially during the formation of the ego, it can become a permanent character trait. This is often seen in those with obsessional character and obsessive personality disorders. This does not imply that its periodic usage is always obsessional, but that it can lead to obsessional behavior.

    Example
    A man who is overly aroused by pornographic material who utilizes reaction formation may take on an attitude of criticism toward the topic. He may end up sacrificing many of the positive things in his life, including family relationships, by traveling around the country to anti-pornography rallies. This view may become an obsession, whereby the man eventually does nothing but travel from rally to rally speaking out against pornography. He continues to do this, but only feels temporary relief, because the deeply rooted arousal to an unacceptable behaviour such as watching pornography is still present, and underlying the implementation of the defense. At that point he can be said to have developed an obsessional personality above and beyond the defense mechanism.

    Sexuality
    Homophobia, as recent news stories attest, is particularly suspect. Men - and it is men usually - who devote their public lives to the squashing of gay rights are often compelled to out themselves in the most tawdry and public way: sex in bathrooms, employing male prostitutes, as if to confirm the crudest notions of the reviled homosexual sex acts.

    Similarly, a strongly heterosexual individual who is fearful/hateful toward those who identify themselves as homosexual and bisexual. The person may be seeking to counteract deep-seated and often untouched homosexual desires. A reaction formation is used to exaggerate heterosexual behavior outward, to relieve inward anxiety regarding homosexual desires.

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    Jun 26, 2010 12:13 AM GMT
    organized religion ....lame icon_sad.gif
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    Jun 26, 2010 1:53 AM GMT
    i'm not a religious scholar but it seems like being gay is only "wrong" in "god-based" religions. e.g. judaism, christianity, islam. is it seen as "wrong" in buddhism, confucionism, hinduism? the old romans and greeks didn't seem to have a problem with it until christianity came about. heck look at what's going on in africa when christianity was introduced. random observation.
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    Jun 26, 2010 2:00 AM GMT
    sashaman said
    sdgman saidYou know... I'm not into "outing". I was outed at work by a fucked up lesbian... but I learned my private life wasn't really as interesting to people as I thought.

    People like this prick are the worst sort of human. I hate hypocrites, I hope the sex tapes come out too.

    However, he did actually state he was against "openly gay" ministers serving... not closeted ones.



    Well if he is only against "openly gay" ministers, I guess he's not such a hypocrite then, is he? icon_rolleyes.gif


    Right? In his mind, he was not "acting out" .. he was resisting the temptation of the devil in his loins. I'm sure that's how he justifies his hatred. I bet he cries himself to sleep every time he beats off after seeing a hot altar boi
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    Jun 26, 2010 2:13 AM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles said

    Sexuality
    Homophobia, as recent news stories attest, is particularly suspect. Men - and it is men usually - who devote their public lives to the squashing of gay rights are often compelled to out themselves in the most tawdry and public way: sex in bathrooms, employing male prostitutes, as if to confirm the crudest notions of the reviled homosexual sex acts.

    Similarly, a strongly heterosexual individual who is fearful/hateful toward those who identify themselves as homosexual and bisexual. The person may be seeking to counteract deep-seated and often untouched homosexual desires. A reaction formation is used to exaggerate heterosexual behavior outward, to relieve inward anxiety regarding homosexual desires.


    What you resist, persists.