Is the U.S. a Fascist Police-State?

  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 28, 2010 1:57 AM GMT
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-us-fascist-police-state

    Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

    But with yesterday’s Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project decision (No. 08-1498, also 09-89) of the Supreme Court, coupled with last week’s Arar v. Ashcroft denial of certiorari (No. 09-923), the case for claiming that the U.S. is a fascist police-state just got a whole lot stronger.

    First of all, what is a “fascist police-state”?
    -------------------------------

    I recently got a ticket and the cop asked me for my Social Security Number. He asked if I belong to any organizations or gangs. Asked if I had tattoos, whether I was employed, where I worked.
    I recently went on a trip and the TSA agent rifled through my belongings reading the covers of the magazines and books that I had with me.
    I complained but nothing was done.

    There's a feeling of creeping fascism like a warm blanket dropping over the country. Or am I being paranoid?

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    Jun 28, 2010 2:15 AM GMT
    I have some concern too... when living with my brother and sister-in-law in Las Vegas, we would constantly get called by the police and asked for donations.... I was always informed that the call was being recorded for my "protection"... which I think is rather disconcerting

    When any of my family members travel into the US with European passports.... we all invariably get 4 X's on the ticket, meaning we have to go through extra security checks... they say its completely random every time.... very suspicious, as we all have Arabic names and we all get it every time :/

    Now we've kind of gotten used to the lies and the paranoid looks and now we joke about it and introduce ourselves as "terrorists" in a lot of places :. NOt because terrorism is funny, but because taking it in humour is the only way of dissipating the annoyance of being treated like that....
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 28, 2010 2:44 AM GMT
    amar_m saidI have some concern too... when living with my brother and sister-in-law in Las Vegas, we would constantly get called by the police and asked for donations.... I was always informed that the call was being recorded for my "protection"... which I think is rather disconcerting

    When any of my family members travel into the US with European passports.... we all invariably get 4 X's on the ticket, meaning we have to go through extra security checks... they say its completely random every time.... very suspicious, as we all have Arabic names and we all get it every time :/

    Now we've kind of gotten used to the lies and the paranoid looks and now we joke about it and introduce ourselves as "terrorists" in a lot of places :. NOt because terrorism is funny, but because taking it in humour is the only way of dissipating the annoyance of being treated like that....


    Reminds me of the six year old who is on the terrorist watch list:

    http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-news-westlake-ohio-six-year-old-no-fly-list,0,1122601.story
    Her family has no ability to contest this action by the government which means no form of redress. That is one of the points of the above article.
    Some bureaucrat has decided she is to be on a list and that is that.
    Amar, your situation in Vegas is disturbing. The lies and paranoid looks are funny until you end up in jail.
    I was hoping you might talk me down! lol
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    Jun 28, 2010 2:48 AM GMT
    No, it's an asylum for the criminally ignorant.
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    Jun 28, 2010 2:55 AM GMT
    A fascist police state? If it were, those who say so would already have been sent to the camps.

  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Jun 28, 2010 2:57 AM GMT
    TexDef07 saidA fascist police state? If it were, those who say so would already have been sent to the camps.

    Well I think that's part of the problem. The line of thinking you present is faulty ergo: "A society must be exactly Nazi Germany in order for it to be a fascist police state." I do not concur.
    Not all groups or individuals who spoke out actively against the Nazis during their reign were sent to camps.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_resistance#Catholic_resistance


    But let us make this a talk about the modern definition of what is defined by the terms fascistic police state.
    Did you read the referenced article wherein the author lays out his arguments for the definition of a fascistic police state?
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    Jun 28, 2010 9:46 AM GMT
    TSA recently went through my stuff, which is exciting to me because I am an attention whore. When the guy said, "what is this?" I answered, "well that's a condom. I haven't used it yet but I plan on using it." He laughed, blushed, put it back, and didn't rummage through anything else.
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    Jun 28, 2010 9:52 AM GMT
    hahaha wtf:

    "So! To sum up: The U.S. government can decide unilaterally who is a terrorist organization and who is not. Anyone speaking to such a designated terrorist group is “providing material support” to the terrorists—and is therefore subject to prosecution at the discretion of the U.S. government. And if, in the end, it turns out that one definitely was not involved in terrorist activities, there is no way to receive redress by the state.

    Sounds like a fascist police-state to me."

    Yes, if you are providing support to the Hamas or Taliban then you'll get arrested. That's called aiding murder plots. If you aided the KKK and then got caught, are you going to scream, "FASICM!"...?
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 28, 2010 10:35 AM GMT
    We've given into fear
    and what that does is we allow ourselves to listen to the Glenn Becks and the Sara Palins who use these fears for their own personal gain

    One of my favorite quotes for these times is from Benjamin Franklin
    who said
    For those who would forsake a little liberty for safety deserve neither
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    Jun 28, 2010 10:44 AM GMT
    back2nyc saidThey did this to you because you don't really look white-white... you look mixed, could be Latino.. or Middle Eastern or something. They never do this to a blonde haired / blue eyed person ever.



    swimbikerun saidhttp://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-us-fascist-police-state

    Submitted by Gonzalo Lira

    But with yesterday’s Holder v. Humanitarian Law Project decision (No. 08-1498, also 09-89) of the Supreme Court, coupled with last week’s Arar v. Ashcroft denial of certiorari (No. 09-923), the case for claiming that the U.S. is a fascist police-state just got a whole lot stronger.

    First of all, what is a “fascist police-state”?
    -------------------------------

    I recently got a ticket and the cop asked me for my Social Security Number. He asked if I belong to any organizations or gangs. Asked if I had tattoos, whether I was employed, where I worked.
    I recently went on a trip and the TSA agent rifled through my belongings reading the covers of the magazines and books that I had with me.
    I complained but nothing was done.

    There's a feeling of creeping fascism like a warm blanket dropping over the country. Or am I being paranoid?



    Profiling is very much alive- I found it interesting going through LAX with such titles in my possession as "Architect of Jihad" and "The Secret Life of al-Qaeda" among several others and all they asked is what is the reading for for which I answered and barely a second glance. Same treatment all over the world- most evident coming back into Oz. I just don't think they see the impact of low amounts of training and quick profiling can have.
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    Jun 28, 2010 11:17 AM GMT
    I think the Supreme Court made the right call in that case. Of course there are people who are afraid that the law will be applied in unjust circumstances, and I guess we'll just have to wait and see about that. Something tells me DOJ isn't likely to prosecute someone who offers verbal support and nothing else to a terrorist organization.

    As for your concern about the workings of the post-9/11 security state, I think a lot of people share them. But when it comes to airports, I am all for vigilance given that terrorists love to attack airplanes. The TSA is really a minimal intrusion, designed to keep the airways safe. It's a nuisance.

    The question becomes whether the security apparatus invades other parts of our lives, and there, I just am not sure I know. We seem to have freedoms, and I'm not sure anyone's watching. When the government spies on random citizens, there is a problem. I'm not sure, however, that the government is really watching us. I'm pretty grateful to live in a country where it's not the government that aims to curb my most cherished freedoms. The bigger concern for me on that score is that corporations DO aim to get inside my head. We are simply supposed to forfeit privacy and other freedoms to corporations, and they are legally entitled to spy on us. At least there are institutional checks on the government when it investigates individuals.


    That said, there are signs of growing support for "fascist"-lite government in the US. Arizona's anti-immigrant legislations, of course, is the prime example. But look at the reaction to it from *law enforcement*. That's a very encouraging sign. I'd say we Americans are vigilant about our freedoms, and hopefully we'll know when it's time to say "enough is enough" to government intrusions.
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    Jun 28, 2010 11:27 AM GMT
    back2nyc saidThis profiling happens MOSTLY in the US - nowhere else really. Even in UK they don't do it so much, all over europe there are many muslims, blacks, asians etc. who are treated much better than they are in the US. If a muslim with the same titles as you had in your possession was caught carrying this at any US airport - they would be immediately in Prison without even questioning.


    That sucks. Putting a non-criminal Muslim in prison for no reason will probably make them into a terrorist as they seek revenge to get like years of their life back that was wasted in a cell for no reason. I mean seriously if I were jailed for years for no reason I'd seek revenge. Unless, of course I had a lot of butt sex with latino gangsters all this time. In that case I'd write a thank you letter.
  • cowboyathlete

    Posts: 1346

    Jun 28, 2010 11:42 AM GMT
    JakeBenson saidTSA recently went through my stuff, which is exciting to me because I am an attention whore. When the guy said, "what is this?" I answered, "well that's a condom. I haven't used it yet but I plan on using it." He laughed, blushed, put it back, and didn't rummage through anything else.
    LMAO perfect comeback. Oh wait, I said come...
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    Jun 28, 2010 12:00 PM GMT
    TexDef07 saidA fascist police state? If it were, those who say so would already have been sent to the camps.



    Yes thank you. This fear of police is jsut stupid.

    am i saying that all police are good people? no of course not. but our government and the police department itself has procedures to keep everything in check.

    im tired of everyone saying things like "the police aren't here to help us" or "cops are power hungry assholes"
    its that kind of close minded stereotypical thinking that makes people say "all fags are child molesters"
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    Jun 28, 2010 12:18 PM GMT
    Bull shit. That is once again exactly the problem. u assume that because im white that i dont have segregation problems.
    do u forget that there are also black officers and hispanic officer and women officers. its compleatly unfair for u to say that white people are not targeted. AND you're assumeing that police officers WILL AND DO segregate people who are not themselves.

    and once again im not saying that segregation never happends, im jsut saying that it doesnt happen nearly as much as people try to make it out too, and simply saying "that all cops are out to get black people" is no different that someone saying to us "all gay people are goign to kidnap children"

    back2nyc saidIts very easy to say that for you - being the way you look you will never be the TARGET of police brutality unless you do something seriously wrong. However millions of Innocent people in USA are being targetted by Police, profiled over their ethnicity and treated like shit for doing NOTHING - but since you may never go through this you will never even realize it.





    Voice22 said
    TexDef07 saidA fascist police state? If it were, those who say so would already have been sent to the camps.



    Yes thank you. This fear of police is jsut stupid.

    am i saying that all police are good people? no of course not. but our government and the police department itself has procedures to keep everything in check.

    im tired of everyone saying things like "the police aren't here to help us" or "cops are power hungry assholes"
    its that kind of close minded stereotypical thinking that makes people say "all fags are child molesters"
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    Jun 28, 2010 12:34 PM GMT
    Its true, I know a lot of good cops... its not the police themselves were talking about here though... its the laws that get put in place and that the police force is expected to go by... Its the same as war... I dont think soldiers are evil... but I dont like war!
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    Jun 28, 2010 12:37 PM GMT
    JakeBenson said
    back2nyc saidThis profiling happens MOSTLY in the US - nowhere else really. Even in UK they don't do it so much, all over europe there are many muslims, blacks, asians etc. who are treated much better than they are in the US. If a muslim with the same titles as you had in your possession was caught carrying this at any US airport - they would be immediately in Prison without even questioning.


    That sucks. Putting a non-criminal Muslim in prison for no reason will probably make them into a terrorist as they seek revenge to get like years of their life back that was wasted in a cell for no reason. I mean seriously if I were jailed for years for no reason I'd seek revenge. Unless, of course I had a lot of butt sex with latino gangsters all this time. In that case I'd write a thank you letter.


    Ditto
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    Jun 28, 2010 1:03 PM GMT
    lol-monkey.jpg
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Jun 28, 2010 1:32 PM GMT
    The U.S. is not a police state, but it has essentially become a corporatocracy, where interests of big business dominate (run) the democratic process. It's very interesting to me to see how much leeway people are prepared to give corporations (even at the expense of their own well-being), than they are willing to concede to the government. Not that the government is right on all counts, just an observation on how willing the general public is willing to roll over to get screwed by Big Banking, Big Oil and other corporate entities just because they bring us bright, shiny objects to consume (and lend us the money to go into debt to buy them).
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    Jun 28, 2010 1:37 PM GMT
    The fact that there are lawsuits proves it is not a "police state."

    Paranoia here. If you want to know what real fascism looks like, look at Obama and his crew.
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    Jun 28, 2010 1:44 PM GMT
    JackBlair saidThe fact that there are lawsuits proves it is not a "police state."

    Paranoia here. If you want to know what real fascism looks like, look at Obama and his crew.


    Thank you not allowing me to loose faith in society.
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    Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM GMT
    JackBlair saidIf you want to know what real fascism looks like, look at Obama and his crew.

    its_cute_how_stupid_you_are.jpg
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    Jun 28, 2010 1:48 PM GMT
    NC3athlete saidThe U.S. is not a police state, but it has essentially become a corporatocracy, where interests of big business dominate (run) the democratic process. It's very interesting to me to see how much leeway people are prepared to give corporations (even at the expense of their own well-being), than they are willing to concede to the government. Not that the government is right on all counts, just an observation on how willing the general public is willing to roll over to get screwed by Big Banking, Big Oil and other corporate entities just because they bring us bright, shiny objects to consume (and lend us the money to go into debt to buy them).


    Agreed. But don't forget Google, Microsoft and the infotech industry in general. The amount of personal information they potentially have on you is truly terrifying.
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Jun 28, 2010 3:11 PM GMT
    GQjock saidWe've given into fear
    and what that does is we allow ourselves to listen to the Glenn Becks and the Sara Palins who use these fears for their own personal gain

    One of my favorite quotes for these times is from Benjamin Franklin
    who said
    For those who would forsake a little liberty for safety deserve neither


    The actual Franklin quote is "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." While I agree with the sentiment that people are too willing to give up their freedoms in order to feel safe (and often in ways that don't actually increase their safety), the nuance of the actual quote is important, and this is one of the most frequently misquoted sayings out there.
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    Jun 28, 2010 3:24 PM GMT
    MSUBioNerd said
    GQjock saidWe've given into fear
    and what that does is we allow ourselves to listen to the Glenn Becks and the Sara Palins who use these fears for their own personal gain

    One of my favorite quotes for these times is from Benjamin Franklin
    who said
    For those who would forsake a little liberty for safety deserve neither


    The actual Franklin quote is "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." While I agree with the sentiment that people are too willing to give up their freedoms in order to feel safe (and often in ways that don't actually increase their safety), the nuance of the actual quote is important, and this is one of the most frequently misquoted sayings out there.



    hahahaha get it MSUBioNerd! History Buff OWNED!!!!!!