Federal Pay ahead of Private Pay

  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 4:54 PM GMT
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

    seems the "myth" of higher private pay is just that. surprise. and this is before free benefits/excessive pensions propped up by US taxpayers.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 5:02 PM GMT
    you're a little late here, solak. this article was torn apart and analyzed here a couple of months ago.

    athough the benefits of federal civil service are still very good (vacation, sick leave, retirement), the actual every other monday paycheck is just barely adequate in today's Real World.

    the comparable employee in the private sector (mine would be an ADM-Growmark employee) makes about 20% more salary than i do.

    i will make one more comment:

    "USA Today" is nothing more than a light, easily/quickly read rag with articles just long enough to be read while taking a dump. they are the "entertainment tonight" of the print media. anyone who relies on this rag for actual hard facts is an uninformed fool.
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 5:18 PM GMT
    rnch saidyou're a little late here, solak. this article was torn apart and analyzed here a couple of months ago.

    athough the benefits of federal civil service are still very good (vacation, sick leave, retirement), the actual every other monday paycheck is just barely adequate in today's Real World.

    the comparable employee in the private sector (mine would be an ADM-Growmark employee) makes about 20% more salary than i do.

    i will make one more comment:

    "USA Today" is nothing more than a light, easily/quickly read rag with articles just long enough to be read while taking a dump. they are the "entertainment tonight" of the print media. anyone who relies on this rag for actual hard facts is an uninformed fool.


    yes my neighbor, an engineer quit his private job to join a federal job ... he did it because there is no real incentive in federal environ whereas in private he had deadlines approach and all nighters are spent on weekends for contracts outstanding..

    his actual work done in federal side is about 1-2 hours/day and spends most of his day planning vacations or working on his blog, which makes a decent amount of money on the side

    i mean more power to him to exploit the climate, but to say federal jobs are for everyone's benefit is kind of a stretch.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 5:56 PM GMT
    solak said... my neighbor, an engineer quit his private job to join a federal job ... he did it because there is no real incentive in federal environ whereas in private he had deadlines approach and all nighters are spent on weekends for contracts outstanding..


    if a competent engineer left the private sector to accept employement with the federal govt; he must be a lazy hack and/or not need the money that badly! icon_lol.gif

    or perhaps he is after the still-very-good-retirement-plan federal civil service has. icon_idea.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 13, 2010 6:00 PM GMT
    Labor needs to get organized again to balance corporate management and have a significant say in how things are run.

    Congress can be bought by corporate money and won't look out for the workers.
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 6:06 PM GMT
    rnch said
    solak said... my neighbor, an engineer quit his private job to join a federal job ... he did it because there is no real incentive in federal environ whereas in private he had deadlines approach and all nighters are spent on weekends for contracts outstanding..


    if a competent engineer left the private sector to accept employement with the federal govt; he must be a lazy hack and/or not need the money that badly! icon_lol.gif

    or perhaps he is after the still-very-good-retirement-plan federal civil service has. icon_idea.gif


    yes unfortunately (or fortunately for him) he's exploiting (at least it seems so) the current system where pay doesn't go with merit..

    he gets paid more $ per hour at the Fed job because there is no incentive to meet deadlines (gov't just extends the deadline or create more funds from taxes or by printing) in Federal environment as there is in Private...meaning he spends at most 1-2 hours of real work at the Fed gig...

    throw on top of that greater vacation/benefits/pension, and the fact that he spends 70% of his time at his Federal job making money from his blog, then you can see why he (and Im sure millions of others) chose that route.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 6:11 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]...yes unfortunately (or fortunately for him) he's exploiting (at least it seems so) the current system where pay doesn't go with merit..

    he gets paid more $ per hour at the Fed job because there is no incentive to meet deadlines (gov't just extends the deadline or create more funds from taxes or by printing) in Federal environment as there is in Private...meaning he spends at most 1-2 hours of real work at the Fed gig...

    throw on top of that greater vacation/benefits/pension, and the fact that he spends 70% of his time at his Federal job making money from his blog, then you can see why he (and Im sure millions of others) chose that route.[/quote]

    federal civil service employees still have job performance standards to meet every year.

    i suspect he is exaggerating/bullshitting/pulling your leg about the amount of time he spends on private time activities while at work?

    solak, you almost sound just a little bit jealous! icon_lol.gif
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 6:13 PM GMT
    maybe a tad jealous!icon_razz.gif why work hard when you can live off other people's taxes?

    brb prepping resume, 2 week vacation days here i come!
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jul 13, 2010 6:26 PM GMT
    Anyone who thinks government employees/contractors don't work hard is living in a fantasy world. I've been in, and worked closely with DOI (USGS), USAID (FFP, OFDA), USDA (FAS) and DOC (NOAA) and will soon be joining another group. The myth that we sit on our butts is ridiculous. I won't argue that the government is more wasteful, but the employees that I have come in contact with work solid 40 hour weeks.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 6:31 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]solak said[/cite]maybe a tad jealous!icon_razz.gif why work hard when you can live off other people's taxes?...[quote]

    federal civil service employees also pay federal, state and local income taxes...just like every other gainfully employed people. icon_exclaim.gif
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 6:41 PM GMT
    DCEric said won't argue that the government is more wasteful, but the employees that I have come in contact with work solid 40 hour weeks.


    not trying to bash you DC, but this is where I scratch my head and think how entrenched in the cushy gov't environment you must be to think of a solid 40+ hours equates to working "hard."

    some people in private have to work second jobs and on weekends (above 70+ hours) just to maintain in this economy, forget getting ahead. (i freelance on the side to complement my full-time)

    40 hours a week, plus benefits, plus YOY raises seems like a luxury these days..my neighbor is with DOD (if that matters) and has contracts outstanding with other departments and in dealing w/ them the mentality exists throughout..

    with his Private exp - contract deadline = contract deadline, no extensions, capital raises and its understood to come in on wkends weeks before deadline..

    at his Federal counterpart - they simply roll deadline to new date, wait for budget increase (via taxes of public) or look for internal capital injection (ie printed money delegated to department).. hasn't worked a weekend yet, and it's abnormal to with his dept.

    also have to add that many of his colleagues don't have Private exp and the Federal gig was the only place that hired them, and that seems to be a recurring theme in other departments he works with.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 6:50 PM GMT
    ah yes, solack, the grass is always greener on the other side... icon_lol.gificon_wink.gif
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 7:04 PM GMT
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575003101210295246.html

    "Let's walk through the math. In 2008 almost half of all state and local government expenditures, or an estimated $1.1 trillion, went toward the pay and benefits of public workers."

    much greener!icon_smile.gif

    resume prep time, hear i come 40 hr workweeks - yay weekends back!
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 7:06 PM GMT
    solak saidhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281204575003101210295246.html

    "Let's walk through the math. In 2008 almost half of all state and local government expenditures, or an estimated $1.1 trillion, went toward the pay and benefits of public workers."

    much greener!icon_smile.gif

    resume prep time, hear i come 40 hr workweeks - yay weekends back!
    you do realize that you are most like going to have to take (at least) a temporary pay cut?
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 7:08 PM GMT
    i ran the numbers on a per hourly basis (using conservative numbers with excel) and my pay goes up..

    add in the free/extended benefits/vacation/pension package for this particular position (as i currently have to contribute with my private employee) and my comparative pay goes up tremendouslyicon_cool.gif
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 7:09 PM GMT
    solak saidi ran the numbers on a per hourly basis (using conservative numbers with excel) and my pay goes up..

    add in the free/extended benefits/vacation/pension package for this particular position (as i currently have to contribute with my private employee) and my comparative pay goes up tremendouslyicon_cool.gif
    you must have a very shitty job now!

    don't forget...just 'cause you apply for a civil service job..doesn't mean you will get it....

  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
    rnch said
    solak saidi ran the numbers on a per hourly basis (using conservative numbers with excel) and my pay goes up..

    add in the free/extended benefits/vacation/pension package for this particular position (as i currently have to contribute with my private employee) and my comparative pay goes up tremendouslyicon_cool.gif
    you must have a very shitty job now!

    don't forget...just 'cause you apply for a civil service job..doesn't mean you will get it....



    you are correct sir.. except per my neighbor, the majority who work at Federal were those who lacked credentials to get into private..

    so generally, private experience looks good on the resume. of course, generalizing, but he noticed this theme throughout diff depts.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 7:12 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]solak said..add in the free/extended benefits/vacation/pension package for this particular position (as i currently have to contribute with my private employee) and my comparative pay goes up tremendously...[quote]

    free? all new federal civil service employees, since around 1986, have to contribute towards their retirement benefits/pension package. it's not "free".
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 7:15 PM GMT
    solak, you sound like a prime example of "book smart and real world dumb".

    icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gificon_wink.gif

    things don't always work out in "The Real World" as they do sitting behing your computer...hope your plan does work for you! Good Luck in the future!
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 7:18 PM GMT
    free-er is probably more appropriate.. the pension % payout based on years of performance in Federal is much more lucrative than a simple 401k plan in Private where the only real benefits are tax advantages (ant that will probably change)..

    with the Federal pension formula for this particular position you do X number of years, and a much lower rate of contribution, and your you get a high XX% of salary w/benefits as pension for life, regardless of quality of work performed (more based on years of service)..

    why work hard, when it's based on length of term, and you can just exploit private's hard work and taxes.

    some Federal dept's give the pension, and allow you to work with certain department allowing you to "double dip," basically near doubling your salary in later years.. might as well start when youngicon_twisted.gif
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 7:21 PM GMT
    rnch saidsolak, you sound like a prime example of "book smart and real world dumb".

    icon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gificon_wink.gif

    things don't always work out in "The Real World" as they do sitting behing your computer...hope your plan does work for you! Good Luck in the future!


    i wont lower myself to your standards by name-calling. name-calling is for those not smart enough to intelligently discuss.

    but thanks for your best wishes, i will meet and discuss with my neighbor soon!
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    Jul 13, 2010 7:52 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]solak said...i wont lower myself to your standards by name-calling. name-calling is for those not smart enough to intelligently discuss.

    but thanks for your best wishes, i will meet and discuss with my neighbor soon![/quote]

    no, not name calling, merely an "internet observation".

    hoping your plan for the future comes to full fruition; but "reality" has a nasty habit of biting you on the back pockets when you least expect it.

    and i still think your neighbor is feeding a gullible lad a shit-load of exaggerations and bullshit. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jul 13, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
    solak saidfree-er is probably more appropriate.. the pension % payout based on years of performance in Federal is much more lucrative than a simple 401k plan in Private where the only real benefits are tax advantages (ant that will probably change)..

    with the Federal pension formula for this particular position you do X number of years, and a much lower rate of contribution, and your you get a high XX% of salary w/benefits as pension for life, regardless of quality of work performed (more based on years of service)..

    why work hard, when it's based on length of term, and you can just exploit private's hard work and taxes.

    some Federal dept's give the pension, and allow you to work with certain department allowing you to "double dip," basically near doubling your salary in later years.. might as well start when youngicon_twisted.gif


    You clearly have no knowledge of how the system works, because that isn't it.
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 13, 2010 8:47 PM GMT
    rnch said[quote][cite]solak said...i wont lower myself to your standards by name-calling. name-calling is for those not smart enough to intelligently discuss.

    but thanks for your best wishes, i will meet and discuss with my neighbor soon!


    no, not name calling, merely an "internet observation".
    icon_rolleyes.gif[/quote]

    my "observation" is that you're scared i'm out for your union/public job.

    either that or the bitterness is coming from having an open relationship where your bf finds something lacking in you.

    thanks for your wishes good luck in the future as well with thaticon_cool.gif
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jul 13, 2010 8:49 PM GMT
    solak said
    you are correct sir.. except per my neighbor, the majority who work at Federal were those who lacked credentials to get into private..

    so generally, private experience looks good on the resume. of course, generalizing, but he noticed this theme throughout diff depts.


    Umm, not really. If this were the case, then the best minds on how to clean up the oil spill would already be employeed at BP, or elsewhere in the private sector, and BP wouldn't be paying the government for the use of Federal employees.