A State of Denmark

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    Jul 14, 2010 9:32 PM GMT
    I don't suppose there's anyone left on here with the moral awareness to care, but this really saddened me:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/14/torture-classified-documents-disclosed
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    Jul 14, 2010 9:37 PM GMT
    Hatred and fear are the gods that rule us.
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    Jul 15, 2010 12:40 AM GMT
    Thanks for posting this Tim.

    It is sickening that we just gave up everything that separated us from pure barbarism without so much as a fight.

    On any truly meaningful level we lost to Al Qaeda and her allies the second we derogated what it meant to be British or American.

    I feel ashamed that this happened, and utterly powerless to affect the monster we have unleashed.
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    Jul 15, 2010 2:19 AM GMT
    Despite Cheney's delusions, those types of activities demonstrate so much weakness along so many different characteristics.
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    Jul 15, 2010 2:46 AM GMT
    Benjamin Franklin once said that whoever gives up freedom for security deserves neither. Sadly out of the fear, anger, pain, and even zeal in the aftermath of September 11th--emotions which I myself felt--many people chose to sacrifice pieces of freedom and others chose to take them all in the name of security. Once that line is crossed, it is very easy to justify anything.

    While I do not agree with what happened, I can certainly see how we (in the general sense) have allowed things like this to happen. What do we do now? That's what should be asked and certainly in a context much broader than punitive actions against those who perpetrated and ordered these interrogations. How do we balance personal liberty with security? How do we regain what liberty we lost? Difficult questions to answer.
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    Jul 15, 2010 2:56 AM GMT
    The Bush years were an eight year heartache for me.

    I was bewildered as details trickled out about false intelligence concerning WMDs, the atrocities in Abu Grahib and Guantanamo, waterboarding and secret prisons. We didn't even follow our own Constitution, or the Geneva Conventions in relation to the POWs. Let's not forget about the Patriot Act. I love my country, but this kind of shame burns bad.



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    Jul 19, 2010 8:28 PM GMT
    UrsaMajor saidThanks for posting this Tim.

    It is sickening that we just gave up everything that separated us from pure barbarism without so much as a fight.

    On any truly meaningful level we lost to Al Qaeda and her allies the second we derogated what it meant to be British or American.

    I feel ashamed that this happened, and utterly powerless to affect the monster we have unleashed.


    Agreed. " We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals" Bush-Blair did exactly what the terrorists wanted. We have not been true to our own self.