Gay... but desiring a wife and children

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    Jul 17, 2010 8:25 PM GMT
    I found this article to be fascinating, partly because there are times I relate to what he's saying. I'm wondering if anyone here sees themselves in this story?

    Now, I think the headline is a little misleading. I don't think anyone can "decide" to stop being gay (the sophistry of fundamentalists notwithstanding) and that's not really what the author says in the article either.

    But it's a fascinating read on the complexity of human emotions and sexuality.

    The day I decided to stop being gay
    Twenty years after he came out, Patrick Muirhead, 41, explains why he is suddenly feeling the appeal of the opposite sex

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    Jul 17, 2010 8:47 PM GMT

    lol, I found it rather disheartening. It's all about him. Not about the child, or the wife. What he said about civil unions in the UK was depressing.
    He mentions that he may be going straight, then later states that he will always be attracted to men. Well...that's being Bi, which is fine, but it's not straight.

    I'm sure, if he's honest with whatever girl he picks (and not once in the article did he mention any physical sexual attraction to women) he'll find a woman that likes bi/gay men who will marry him or live common-law and have a child with him.

    He mentions only disparaging things about gay men and his relationships with them.


    My gosh, what a critic I am, eh? icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

    -Doug
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    Jul 17, 2010 9:00 PM GMT
    I'd love to be a father, but I wouldn't necessarily start going out with a woman to garner a child.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 17, 2010 9:15 PM GMT
    he doesn't sound as if he is going straight but going manic depressive
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Jul 17, 2010 9:15 PM GMT
    why doesn't he just marry a post-op??

    technically a gay relationship, while also technically being with a woman. win-win
  • NashRugger

    Posts: 1089

    Jul 17, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
    cadudesf saidI'd love to be a father, but I wouldn't necessarily start going out with a woman to garner a child.

    yes
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    Jul 17, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    I think they confused the names... it's supposed to read:
    "Twenty years after he came out, Barefootdude, 41, explains why he is suddenly feeling the appeal of the opposite sex"
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    Jul 17, 2010 9:48 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    lol, I found it rather disheartening. It's all about him. Not about the child, or the wife.
    -Doug


    from the article:I want a wife to love and a child to protect. And I want to look at them both and know that they are mine and I am needed by both and I can be like the workman’s fist, clutched tightly by the little pink fingers in the barber shop. The rock of the family.


    doug nailed it. and this paragraph pretty much sums it up. "mine"...as though they are someone to be owned.

    the guy is a romantic. and as a romantic, he has romantic ideas and romanticizes a life of sweet love, a family, a wife, a loving child, and all those christmases and sleepy little moments before bedtime...even the smell of his own child, freshly bathed in their jammies, ready to have book read to them and then tucked in. there is absolutely NOTHING like laying with your 4 year old child in bed and listening to them fall asleep.

    but, alas. it isn't like that all the time. those moments happen and they are wonderful, but being a parent (and a husband) is not like that at all. clearly, he loves the idea of being a husband and father more than actually being a husband and father.

    for instance, where will he be when olga starts to desire a little oral stimulation? or when olga wishes that he would just hold her, and caress her, and, oh yeah, spend all his time with her? what happens when that cute little 3 year old child who now so cutely sits in the barber chair, turns 14 and becomes a bona fide teenager? a smelly, contentious blob of hormones who thinks it is virtuous to hate their parents and confide in questionable friends who he texts into the wee hours of the morning on his cell phone he bitches about but costs an arm and a leg? mark twain said that when a child becomes a teenager you should put them in a barrel and feed them through a hole. when they turn sixteen, you should plug up the hole.

    i remember, soon after my BF left me (right before i too decided to become "straight"), i was sitting in a cafe and i saw an old guy helping his wife out of the car...both were feeble. i started tearing up. THAT was what i wanted...to spend the rest of my life with someone. to have THAT moment.

    i wanted that moment more than i cared about my wife. you can't love the times you put your children to bed more than you love your children. in short, you can't romanticize about this stuff or it will eat you alive.

    i got married because i thought that was what i was supposed to do....and i ended up getting a divorce and risking messing up the very lives of those children i so fiercely wanted. i chose divorce because i needed to love my children MORE than what i romanticized would be my life with them in it. we can still go to amusement parks and laugh, through a frisbee around, cuddle with each other in front of the TV with a great movie, but you have to absolutely love those other people and not the scenarios.

    this guy is objectifying olga and his potential kids. i guarantee you his fantasy of having a child is to have a nice, healthy with all ten fingers and ten toes, non-autistic, brilliantly creative BOY. what happens when he gets someone else?

    i don't begrudge anyone to find themselves. hell, i had to. but doug is right: this guy is about more himself and his fantasy than his future wife olga and his even more future children (if she can have children and if they don't die in utero).

    it's sad that we all have to deal with these thoughts...if there is any reason to be straight, it's that your life's choices are exponentially easier...or certainly more defined.
  • laxdude25

    Posts: 604

    Jul 17, 2010 9:49 PM GMT
    everybody finds their own path to happiness. too bad that this guy seems to think that his sexuality and a commitment to fatherhood are incompatible. that said, a kid is not an accessory, nor is a woman just a tool to achieve fatherhood. sounds like there are some more basic issues to be addressed here, and not sure the article really deals with them.
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    Jul 17, 2010 9:53 PM GMT
    laxdude25 said...that said, a kid is not an accessory, nor is a woman just a tool to achieve fatherhood. sounds like there are some more basic issues to be addressed here, and not sure the article really deals with them.


    you said it far more succinctly than i did. when you fantasize, you objectify. kids (and wives) are not possessions or accoutrements.
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    Jul 17, 2010 9:54 PM GMT
    I can relate to this story somewhat....

    Long story short, I was dating a girl in High school to prove to everyone that was calling me gay that I wasn't when in fact I knew I was since a very young child.

    She ended up pregnant which was a disaster because we couldn't even get along, fought like cats n dogs literally. Our parents made us get married and we we had another child before I left after 3 years, but I mainly left because the relationship was such a disaster.

    I dated guys for 7 years after that knowing I was gay and thats what I wanted but could never find the type of relationship I wanted. A monogamous relationship that I could help raise my kids in. With the white picket fence and etc., the guys I found always cheated, didn't want to commit, abused me physically and mentally and etc.

    Then I got a great job and was actually out at work when I met an awesome woman. We became great friends and she made it quite clear she was interested. We even went to some gay bars together and etc and had a great time, she was very open minded. I finally sat her down and explained my situation but have to admit she was a great person and very attractive and she said she wanted to give it a try...so we did.

    She got pregnant, we got married and actually had a great marriage and having the son their and my other two kids there as much as possible was everything I had dreamed of....except for one thing....SHE WASN'T A MAN!

    Every year after that it became harder and harder to remain monogamous. I couldn't stop wanting the touch of a man, sex and etc. It felt even weird holding her hand, just so out of place. After 5 years of a great relationship and beautiful family I couldn't do it anymore. I told her and she knew why.

    We divorced agreeably and are still best friends to this day. I have met an AWESOME man and she has remarried. My bf and I even went to their wedding with the kids.

    Its still not the white picket fence life I wanted but its as close as Im going to get. I have 3 beautiful kids and a man that loves me and adores me, and I him.

    I don't care what these fruit cakes say, wanting a marriage and a child and getting married to a woman is not a cure all end all. Unless you have no conscious and cheat on her the rest of your life or you have an open relationship and she doesn't care, the desire for being with a man, if you are gay will overcome you.

    I've tried it twice and it doesn't go away, no matter how bad you don't want to be this way.

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    Jul 17, 2010 10:03 PM GMT

    I am just wondering but do you guys think that most men eventually get to the point the author is at? I'm a hopeless romantic but I have always had the idea in the back of my mind that eventually the guy is going to stereotypically want a son or just kids in general and there is no way I can give him one.

    I feel like it will eventually cause problems in the relationship.
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    Jul 17, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    RamWX said
    cadudesf saidI'd love to be a father, but I wouldn't necessarily start going out with a woman to garner a child.

    yes

    Im adopting
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    Jul 17, 2010 10:14 PM GMT
    tbone25 said...but I am confident that I could be a great dad.


    with all due respect, how do you know? do you have a tremendous life experience you would like to pass on to your progeny? or do you think you are fair minded and could properly raise a morally upstanding individual through sheer force of your own personality?

    parenting is like nothing you've ever experienced. you don't become a "great" dad. when you have kids, you ARE a dad. each moment of every day is brand new...you've never been down this road before.

    when you go to a restaurant and you are annoyed by the family at the table next to you and you wonder why the hell they can't control their children...well, they're probably thinking the same thing. in that moment, when you are most annoyed, those parents have never been there before. that 2 year old has never been 2 years and 4 days old before. the 4 year old sibling of that 2 year old, has never been 4 years old before. every minute is a new adventure.

    now imagine those kids, who have tested you and determined their own life's beliefs (on their own and imperfectly at best) growing up to be teenagers. they know you well, all your quirks and your weaknesses. they know your buttons. they know how to piss you off.

    if you are thinking to yourself at this moment, well...that won'be be me!...then i would suggest you are romanticizing and fantasizing about a world of which you know nothing.

    parenting isn't hard work...it's ALL your work.

    tbone25 said I have since figured I need to rethink the parenthood deal. It could still happen. I pray that it does.


    it is good, as a man still struggling with his sexual identity, to re-think parenthood. it is one thing to marry and find out you don't want to be married...but it is quite another to involve more lives in that decision.

    if you want to be a "great" father, become a big brother to some kid who needs a sage and a guide. but, whatever you do, don't have children because you think you'd be great at it. because even "great" dads suck at it at least 50% of the time.
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    Jul 17, 2010 10:20 PM GMT
    mane8tuh1 said
    I'm a hopeless romantic but I have always had the idea in the back of my mind that eventually the guy is going to stereotypically want a son or just kids in general and there is no way I can give him one.


    wtf? do you guys think you order kids out of a catalog? kids are born with physical limitations, neurological limitations, or a combination of both all the time. you don't sit down and check the "boy" box, the "healthy" box, and the "no psychological preconditions" box. kids die of cancer. kids die in wrecks and freak accidents. they get pneumonia and you listen to them, in between dozing off, coughing and wheezing, or getting up and puking. you get the child you get and then you love them with a love that is greater than the very love you have for yourself...in spite of how your life will look from there on.

    for those of you who dream about marriage and family life all fluttery eyed: you're making it all up. it doesn't look like that.
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    Jul 17, 2010 10:51 PM GMT
    After receiving hate posts from a deranged and mentally unstable RJ member who called me a coward for not revealing my orientation to my wife, and for refusing to march at a London Gay Pride for fear of recognition -

    I guess I better re-tell the story of my younger years...

    When I was a child, it was the image of girls which gave me the boner, not boys. It was when I was older when I experimented with my sexual fantasies which took in boys as well as girls. This may indicate that homosexuality has nothing to do with the genes, nor to do with gestation, but more of a condition of the mind, and it was something I made by choice. It was when I grew older that this choice made became more of a psycho-imprisonment. You will disagree with me on this, declaring that your orientation was always for members of the same sex, and you don't recall any time you ever felt differently. For this I now respect your opinion or self- analysis (which I admit, I didn't when I first joined RJ in 2008.)

    But throughout my life although I had an attraction for boys, I never penetrated, nor allowed anyone to penetrate me. The nearest to a full sexual experience was to allow someone to jack me off in my bachelor apartment in the 1980s. You may conclude that it was my church which forbade man-to-man sex. That is true, but actually even if I was an unbeliever or atheist, this kind of sexual encounter had no natural appeal to me at all.

    I met my future wife towards the end of 1998, not long after flying home from New York. During our courtship, I made an admission to her that "I have homosexual feelings".

    Her response was, "Yes, I was aware of that". When I asked how she knew, she said that from the time we began to see each other, she had that instinct about me. Yet when I proposed in 1999, she willingly accepted.
    But here I agree with Doug, Once married I am NOT free from "homosexual feelings" I still have them, and I should add here, at times (but certainly not all the time) this did have an effect on our sex lives.
    The result were three successful pregnancies.

  • phunkie

    Posts: 325

    Jul 17, 2010 10:57 PM GMT
    If I could, I would adopt now. I have practically raised a few of my two dozen nephews and nieces.
  • allatonce

    Posts: 904

    Jul 17, 2010 10:58 PM GMT
    amar_m said
    RamWX said
    cadudesf saidI'd love to be a father, but I wouldn't necessarily start going out with a woman to garner a child.

    yes

    Im adopting


    Oh wow, are you adopting on your own? I have been thinking recently about how my desire have to some day be a parent is very strong. It's a type of connection and love that I feel I would love to have in my life.
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    Jul 17, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    I don't think I'll ever want to have a wife, but I've thought about myself being a father in 15 years or so. I want my kids' friends to say something like "your dad is a rock star." icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 17, 2010 11:12 PM GMT
    Patrick Muirhead sounds like a dramatic, self-centered, delusional, douche.
    I wonder if some conservative group wrote him a big check.

    After he finds out that being a parent and father is actually hard work, he's going to be proclaiming his gayness on the highest mountain.
  • coastguy90814

    Posts: 661

    Jul 17, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    Global_Citizen saidI found this article to be fascinating, partly because there are times I relate to what he's saying. I'm wondering if anyone here sees themselves in this story?

    Now, I think the headline is a little misleading. I don't think anyone can "decide" to stop being gay (the sophistry of fundamentalists notwithstanding) and that's not really what the author says in the article either.

    But it's a fascinating read on the complexity of human emotions and sexuality.

    The day I decided to stop being gay
    Twenty years after he came out, Patrick Muirhead, 41, explains why he is suddenly feeling the appeal of the opposite sex



    First the title is irresponsible. Very disheartening story and I feel very sad for this individual. Just reading his experiences and his perceptions and views of being Gay were interesting because he has obviously only experienced a certain aspect of what it means to be Gay. I'm not sure how old he is and what times he was living through as a Gay man but times are changing.

    His strong want to have a child is obviously clouding his judgement enough to want to start dating woman and possibly marry. How unfair this would be to the woman, unless he met someone and they had an understanding. His terms like not fully a homo represent a deep self loathe that he may have always had about being Gay....just my opinion, not to mention the writing of this story and what he says and the way he says it in general.

    He is also so caught up in wanting to be 'normal'...what is normal. Yes we have generalities that are called normal and un-normal but within that spectrum runs the gamut. He doesn't realize that he can have his normal, have a child and get what he wants out of life. Having a wife was never the spark that encouraged his story, so this is where his selfishness takes over.
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    Jul 17, 2010 11:59 PM GMT
    sounds like someone wants a dog. he saw a guy taking his son for a haircut and thought that was love, wait till the baby is cry and spitting up at 430 in the morning, well see what he thinks of love then, better yet I dont think he is even ready for a dog
  • BeingThePhoen...

    Posts: 1157

    Jul 18, 2010 12:25 AM GMT
    I definately want children and I have had sex with women before, (obviously not my cup of tea) but I couldn't bring myself to get into a relationship with a female just to have children.
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    Jul 18, 2010 12:50 AM GMT
    rangard said
    mane8tuh1 said
    I'm a hopeless romantic but I have always had the idea in the back of my mind that eventually the guy is going to stereotypically want a son or just kids in general and there is no way I can give him one.


    wtf? do you guys think you order kids out of a catalog? kids are born with physical limitations, neurological limitations, or a combination of both all the time. you don't sit down and check the "boy" box, the "healthy" box, and the "no psychological preconditions" box. kids die of cancer. kids die in wrecks and freak accidents. they get pneumonia and you listen to them, in between dozing off, coughing and wheezing, or getting up and puking. you get the child you get and then you love them with a love that is greater than the very love you have for yourself...in spite of how your life will look from there on.

    for those of you who dream about marriage and family life all fluttery eyed: you're making it all up. it doesn't look like that.


    Maybe you should just reread my post...at what point did I say that you get to chose a boy who is perfectly healthy and smart and blah? Stereotypically guys want suns right??? I never said that means they get them. Nobody ever said we get a baby catalog and just order kids like a pair of shoes so I'm confused as to how you pulled that out of what I or anyone else said. FYI I am 1 of 6 in my family and I have been there for the birth and a good portion of the life of 1 autistic kid, and I was there for the death of a child 17hrs after birth so I definitely know that its not a fairy tale.
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    Jul 18, 2010 12:52 AM GMT
    phunkie saidIf I could, I would adopt now. I have practically raised a few of my two dozen nephews and nieces.


    Cool me too, although two dozen is way more than I have lol. U must be a "Super Uncle" read an article about them lol