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    Jul 19, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    This is intense:

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    Jul 20, 2010 12:59 AM GMT
    UM WTF. WOW.
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    Jul 20, 2010 1:02 AM GMT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxEY4gIEVo&feature=player_embedded

    This is how we roll...
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    Jul 20, 2010 1:14 AM GMT
    Wow, that was simply intense and hard to swallow... Poor little man...
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    Jul 20, 2010 1:31 AM GMT
    FunStud91 saidWow, that was simply intense and hard to swallow... Poor little man...


    I do not like the threat of hellsfire due to human transgression...so ultimate for a finite universe.
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    Jul 20, 2010 2:55 AM GMT
    agri_sci saidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxEY4gIEVo&feature=player_embedded

    This is how we roll...


    Umm....your video is just as sad. In case you forgot, it was the god of the Hebrews that executed the first holocaust in the form of a flood.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 20, 2010 3:54 AM GMT
    That was intense. I almost couldn't tell if it was satire or not... I was like "Is this sh@% for real??" It did a good job pointing out how CRAZY religion can be...
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    Jul 20, 2010 10:07 PM GMT
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sci saidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxEY4gIEVo&feature=player_embedded

    This is how we roll...


    Umm....your video is just as sad. In case you forgot, it was the god of the Hebrews that executed the first holocaust in the form of a flood.icon_rolleyes.gif


    Its the same G-d and secondly, the focus of that video was not hellfire but rather encouraging Jews to seek Jewish Learning. Its not about being "sad" it a fundemental difference how Jews approach the world around us. Being saved from hell is a non-issue for us but rather approaching Jewishness from an educational and participatory standpoint.
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    Jul 20, 2010 10:27 PM GMT
    LOL, that was awesome, thank you!

    I never understood how ppl can fall for this stuff, i grew in a Catholic country, went to Chatolic school, and we celebrate Christmas with the tree and all that, but I could not understand how people can take all that stuff seriously..
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    Jul 20, 2010 10:29 PM GMT
    amar_m saidLOL, that was awesome, thank you!

    I never understood how ppl can fall for this stuff, i grew in a Catholic country, went to Chatolic school, and we celebrate Christmas with the tree and all that, but I could not understand how people can take all that stuff seriously..


    I was raised a Catholic and that ideology is not something that I am comfortable with. Its not that its wrong, just an idea that rubs me the wrong way.
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    Jul 20, 2010 10:38 PM GMT
    agri_sci said
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sci saidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxEY4gIEVo&feature=player_embedded

    This is how we roll...


    Umm....your video is just as sad. In case you forgot, it was the god of the Hebrews that executed the first holocaust in the form of a flood.icon_rolleyes.gif


    Its the same G-d and secondly, the focus of that video was not hellfire but rather encouraging Jews to seek Jewish Learning. Its not about being "sad" it a fundemental difference how Jews approach the world around us. Being saved from hell is a non-issue for us but rather approaching Jewishness from an educational and participatory standpoint.


    All the respect to knowin and respecting your roots, but I mean, if an alien race comes into earth telling us we should all move to mars, because these aliens were taught by their rrecords kept in crystalline libraries in ancient motherships that they left Earth in the last battle between Atlantis and Lemuria and the prophecy foretold that they should return someday and reclaim their ancestral planet.... I mean, ok, just slaughter all of us humans then, fine, sure, its Gods will ok, Im cool with that icon_evil.gif
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    Jul 20, 2010 10:40 PM GMT
    amar_m said
    agri_sci said
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sci saidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnxEY4gIEVo&feature=player_embedded

    This is how we roll...


    Umm....your video is just as sad. In case you forgot, it was the god of the Hebrews that executed the first holocaust in the form of a flood.icon_rolleyes.gif


    Its the same G-d and secondly, the focus of that video was not hellfire but rather encouraging Jews to seek Jewish Learning. Its not about being "sad" it a fundemental difference how Jews approach the world around us. Being saved from hell is a non-issue for us but rather approaching Jewishness from an educational and participatory standpoint.


    All the respect to knowin and respecting your roots, but I mean, if an alien race comes into earth telling us we should all move to mars, because these aliens were taught by their rrecords kept in crystalline libraries in ancient motherships that they left Earth in the last battle between Atlantis and Lemuria and the prophecy foretold that they should return someday and reclaim their ancestral planet.... I mean, ok, just slaughter all of us humans then, fine, sure, its Gods will ok, Im cool with that icon_evil.gif


    Let us save the direction you are intending to take this for a private convo. I personally do not think people want to see that kind of convo AGAIN. This is not a pro-Israel video, although its prominent, its about the threat of assimilation.
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    Jul 21, 2010 4:54 AM GMT
    agri_sci
    Its the same G-d and secondly, the focus of that video was not hellfire but rather encouraging Jews to seek Jewish Learning. Its not about being "sad" it a fundemental difference how Jews approach the world around us. Being saved from hell is a non-issue for us but rather approaching Jewishness from an educational and participatory standpoint.


    Whether or not it is the same god is irrelevant. The original video was intended to emphasize how evil that particular god is by bluntly explaining some key things he would have us tell our children. My comment to you was simply to remind you that the Jewish/Hebrew god is just as evil. After all, he committed the greatest genocide ever- among his other crimes....

    and

    Let us save the direction you are intending to take this for a private convo. I personally do not think people want to see that kind of convo AGAIN. This is not a pro-Israel video, although its prominent, its about the threat of assimilation.


    And what's the problem with assimilation again? Why do people strive so hard to preserve ancient customs and cultures? Why do adults dress up in costumes and conduct rituals to reconnect with their "roots" or with invisible deities? Is that what you mean when you say "approaching Jewishness"?
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    Jul 21, 2010 4:33 PM GMT
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sci
    Its the same G-d and secondly, the focus of that video was not hellfire but rather encouraging Jews to seek Jewish Learning. Its not about being "sad" it a fundemental difference how Jews approach the world around us. Being saved from hell is a non-issue for us but rather approaching Jewishness from an educational and participatory standpoint.


    Whether or not it is the same god is irrelevant. The original video was intended to emphasize how evil that particular god is by bluntly explaining some key things he would have us tell our children. My comment to you was simply to remind you that the Jewish/Hebrew god is just as evil. After all, he committed the greatest genocide ever- among his other crimes....

    and

    Jews do NOT believe in good and evil. In Genesis, G-d created the world and it was good. Nothing in creation can be evil but rather breaking the law. Furthermore, attributing emotions or traits such as good and evil is hersey in the Jewish tradition because G-d is beyond our understanding. Period. The flood was not a genocide because it was not man killing man. It was the Wrath of G-d. I do not see Genesis outside of its allegoric value because the flood story is found among all nations and cultures and I doubt its A purely theistic concept. G-d cannot commit a crime because we would again be bringing G-d to our level of action and accountability which is ludicrous because we are finite beings in a finite universe but Hashem is transcendent of all that.

    Let us save the direction you are intending to take this for a private convo. I personally do not think people want to see that kind of convo AGAIN. This is not a pro-Israel video, although its prominent, its about the threat of assimilation.


    And what's the problem with assimilation again? Why do people strive so hard to preserve ancient customs and cultures? Why do adults dress up in costumes and conduct rituals to reconnect with their "roots" or with invisible deities? Is that what you mean when you say "approaching Jewishness"?


    The Jewish people have fought to be Jewish for millennium and because of this, a synergy has been created that helped Western Civilization more than you ever know. Judaism is a religion of a nation and although that nation was dispersed, we share common ideas. Those ideas define how we think, which was radical until the Enlightenment. We do not wear costumes but dress in a manner that is modest and free from distraction. That is the Orthodox train of thought but not mine. I am a secular Jew, meaning I participate in society, mindful of Judaism but ultimately a citizen of the world.

    Ultimately, from the way it sounds...you have a beef with anybody with a belief at all and those who differ from yours. I have the tolerance to accept your beliefs and actually embrace them as part of your person. That being said, I expect a little more respect for being a believer and not being approached in a condescending manner.

    Also, I question why I am still on this site and bother posting. Maybe I am a glutton for punishment or maybe I want my voice to be heard among an audience that is glaringly against me. Maybe I want to be heard and respected as I am in the real world. Hmmm...
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    Jul 22, 2010 4:54 AM GMT
    agri_sciThe Jewish people have fought to be Jewish for millennium and because of this, a synergy has been created that helped Western Civilization more than you ever know. Judaism is a religion of a nation and although that nation was dispersed, we share common ideas. Those ideas define how we think, which was radical until the Enlightenment. We do not wear costumes but dress in a manner that is modest and free from distraction. That is the Orthodox train of thought but not mine. I am a secular Jew, meaning I participate in society, mindful of Judaism but ultimately a citizen of the world.

    Ultimately, from the way it sounds...you have a beef with anybody with a belief at all and those who differ from yours. I have the tolerance to accept your beliefs and actually embrace them as part of your person. That being said, I expect a little more respect for being a believer and not being approached in a condescending manner.

    Also, I question why I am still on this site and bother posting. Maybe I am a glutton for punishment or maybe I want my voice to be heard among an audience that is glaringly against me. Maybe I want to be heard and respected as I am in the real world. Hmmm...


    In fact, I do think you crave a fight. After all, the video was obviously not created by Muslims drawing attention to the evils of Christianity. You don't even have to wait until the end to discern that this is from an atheistic perspective. Knowing that [hopefully], you still chose to post a religious video, as if to say that your god and religion are better than those described. Those are fighting words. I think ALL your gods and religions suck! icon_evil.gif

    Also, concerning your argument that Jews ought to fight to be Jews [I'm assuming that's your underlying thesis], why can't Jews and everybody else just be satisfied with being humans? Especially when it comes to filling children's minds with divisive ideas!

    Finally, I don't have "beef" with religious people or people who don't understand the world the way I do. That's like being mad at Kindergarteners for not knowing how to spell! icon_biggrin.gificon_wink.gif

    j/k....no hard feelings
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    Jul 22, 2010 9:13 PM GMT
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sciThe Jewish people have fought to be Jewish for millennium and because of this, a synergy has been created that helped Western Civilization more than you ever know. Judaism is a religion of a nation and although that nation was dispersed, we share common ideas. Those ideas define how we think, which was radical until the Enlightenment. We do not wear costumes but dress in a manner that is modest and free from distraction. That is the Orthodox train of thought but not mine. I am a secular Jew, meaning I participate in society, mindful of Judaism but ultimately a citizen of the world.

    Ultimately, from the way it sounds...you have a beef with anybody with a belief at all and those who differ from yours. I have the tolerance to accept your beliefs and actually embrace them as part of your person. That being said, I expect a little more respect for being a believer and not being approached in a condescending manner.

    Also, I question why I am still on this site and bother posting. Maybe I am a glutton for punishment or maybe I want my voice to be heard among an audience that is glaringly against me. Maybe I want to be heard and respected as I am in the real world. Hmmm...


    In fact, I do think you crave a fight. After all, the video was obviously not created by Muslims drawing attention to the evils of Christianity. You don't even have to wait until the end to discern that this is from an atheistic perspective. Knowing that [hopefully], you still chose to post a religious video, as if to say that your god and religion are better than those described. Those are fighting words. I think ALL your gods and religions suck! icon_evil.gif

    Also, concerning your argument that Jews ought to fight to be Jews [I'm assuming that's your underlying thesis], why can't Jews and everybody else just be satisfied with being humans? Especially when it comes to filling children's minds with divisive ideas!

    Finally, I don't have "beef" with religious people or people who don't understand the world the way I do. That's like being mad at Kindergarteners for not knowing how to spell! icon_biggrin.gificon_wink.gif

    j/k....no hard feelings


    No hard feelings here either but we don't tout "our" G-d as better because we do not seek converts or believe that we have different G-d. Otherwise, to each their own.
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    Jul 22, 2010 9:35 PM GMT
    be and let others be...

    And if you dont let me be, dont expect me to let you be either lol
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    Jul 22, 2010 9:52 PM GMT
    amar_m saidbe and let others be...

    And if you dont let me be, dont expect me to let you be either lol


    Exactly!
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    Jul 22, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
    amar_m saidbe and let others be...

    And if you dont let me be, dont expect me to let you be either lol

    The problem is that religion polutes the minds of children, who are unable to differentiate between fact and fantasy.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:52 AM GMT
    agri_sciNo hard feelings here either but we don't tout "our" G-d as better because we do not seek converts or believe that we have different G-d. Otherwise, to each their own.


    I found it funny that you said your religion doesn't seek converts. Actually, the very concept of this forum regards the converts that your religion (and most other religions) seeks: CHILDREN! Fresh little babes with no ideas in their heads are the first victims of religious conditioning every time. Such easy prey they are. Parents take advantage of the fact that kids need them and trust them for everything, and use that platform to hone fresh recruits with their divisive dogma.

    Having said that, I reiterate I do not despise religion or religious people, nor do I actually think people are evil for teaching their kids religious ideas. It's just food for thought, and I wish parents could see how factious and intellectually lazy they make their children by feeding them these hand-me-down beliefs. Why can't kids just grow up first? Give them some time to develop their brains and their opinions before you start trying to convert them!
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    Jul 23, 2010 1:22 PM GMT
    A good-looking presentation masking all sorts of theological mis-statements, misunderstandings and oversimplifications. Sad, esp. for those who don't know better and seek to justify their anti-Christian sentiments. icon_sad.gif
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    Jul 23, 2010 9:56 PM GMT
    ewe_nik said
    agri_sciNo hard feelings here either but we don't tout "our" G-d as better because we do not seek converts or believe that we have different G-d. Otherwise, to each their own.


    I found it funny that you said your religion doesn't seek converts. Actually, the very concept of this forum regards the converts that your religion (and most other religions) seeks: CHILDREN! Fresh little babes with no ideas in their heads are the first victims of religious conditioning every time. Such easy prey they are. Parents take advantage of the fact that kids need them and trust them for everything, and use that platform to hone fresh recruits with their divisive dogma.

    Having said that, I reiterate I do not despise religion or religious people, nor do I actually think people are evil for teaching their kids religious ideas. It's just food for thought, and I wish parents could see how factious and intellectually lazy they make their children by feeding them these hand-me-down beliefs. Why can't kids just grow up first? Give them some time to develop their brains and their opinions before you start trying to convert them!


    Wow. So much anger and resentment...grow up in a fundamentalist household?

    Example is my life. My parents raised us three boys to be pious but well-informed Roman Catholics. However, they accepted the fact my brothers came to the intellectual conclusion of atheism and accepted my conversion to Judaism. They always raised us to believe that all faiths are like mountains in that they all reach for something higher. They exposed us to other faiths and stressed that all roads to A Higher Power were valid as long as they asked you to attempt to be a better person and be accountable. My parents were also realistic and educated us on things such as homosexuality, birth control, death penalty etc and always told us to search out our own answers. My brothers ended up being rather liberal as I was when I was younger until I became more conservative due to life experience. This is in contradiction to our upraising.

    I guess my point is that raising children with morals with a religious context is a non-issue if it is done in an intellectual way in contrast to a environment of hate, fear and complete surrender of will.

    Furthermore, I plan on raising my children with Jewish Values... Including...

    1) Social Justice- because we are all created equal and are held equally accountable.

    2) Tolerance- because as hard as we are on fellow Jews, our unique contribution to the world is not for everybody nor should it be. This also includes all forms of love and self-identity.

    3) Ethical Approach- What we do should be proactive instead of reactive because we are limited in our scope and our impulses often get the better of us. We should observe, ponder and take a course of action that is healthy, compassionate and ultimately for the betterment of all involved.

    4) Self-Realization - "If not now, then when? If not here, then where? If not me, then Whom?" To be aware that although you cannot control what happens in life, you can control your approach to it and in that become the master of your own destiny.

    Just a few of many things that Judaism taught me, a formerly self-destructive person who shared many of your views not so long ago.

    Religion is not the problem, it is the way it is twisted for personal gain.

    Just a thought is all...
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    Jul 24, 2010 7:59 AM GMT
    Agri_sci,

    You must understand, I am merely ranting. Do I wish people would stop placing fervent belief in ideas and theories that have little or no sustainable evidence? Of course I do. Do I wish people would stop creating imaginary obstacles to free thought and barriers to free living? Yes again. Do I wish people would stop preying on the undeveloped minds of kids? Indeed. But I have no fight with moderate religious belief that does not interfere with my rights.

    The problem, however, is that moderate people like yourself either tend to ignore the darker facets of their religions or are unaware of them. They are still there. Sure, the religion teaches kindness and goodness to all and peace and love and all that...but it also teaches that the ruler is above the law; that mass murder is not good in most cases; that punishment for a crime can be placed upon children and grandchildren and entire bloodlines; and that faith, tradition and ancient morals are more important than skepticism, reason and intellectual reevaluation.
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    Jul 24, 2010 8:14 AM GMT
    Hmmm, my stepdad, a formerly self-destructive person converted to hinduism.. and talks of the same concepts as you do in the case of Judaism...

    I respect his and you choice and all, but I simply dont think I need religion to give me a sense of moral value without resorting to saying things like "because god said so" in some book, or in the form of an incarnation on the earth.. for the plain and simple reason that religious people in generally use that phrase "because god said so" to stone and kill people... even the Torah said so in alot of its stories...

    But who m i to break anyone's faith...

    Anyways, i find that people who choose not to assimilate, not just Jews, but anyone who leaves their own land to live among other people, or who has children of mixed heritage... and then chooses to raise them in only a single culture, are just plain disresepctful of the culture you move into or have children with..... like the Australian woman I knew who moved to Nepal and had a Nepali husband and forbid her child to speak nepali... I was flabbergasted... Not everyone is like this, many people do transmit their culture quite well and enrich the culture in which they live, like in the Caribbean where we keep alot of traditions from the indians, the africans, the catholic europeans, the jews, and all that, but I if I had kids in Australia I wouldnt force the kid to be raised Caribbean for goodness sake, hes in Australia!!!

    One of those very important examples is the fact that judaism, and only judaism and its offshoots, has given the world three major religions that consider sex between men, or semen falling to the gound, ungodly abominations and worthy of eternal damnation... None of the other religions condemned them to hell, and in many religions it was perfectly accepted, even respected, especially here in the American continent and among my tribal American ancestors, where Christianity and its Jewish roots affectively turned the natives into homophobes.. (and also killed a good half of us heathen demons "in the name of the one true god" it makes me too sick to my stomach thinking about it).and I now have to suffer the consequences of their supposedly religiously righteous gay hatred.. and Im sure most everyone on this site has once suffered the gay hatred brought on by these main religions... sorry, I could never accept Judaism or its offshoots as good religions considering I hold them responsible for spreading so much hatred...

    Amen icon_confused.gif
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    Jul 24, 2010 4:13 PM GMT
    ewe_nik saidAgri_sci,

    You must understand, I am merely ranting. Do I wish people would stop placing fervent belief in ideas and theories that have little or no sustainable evidence? Of course I do. Do I wish people would stop creating imaginary obstacles to free thought and barriers to free living? Yes again. Do I wish people would stop preying on the undeveloped minds of kids? Indeed. But I have no fight with moderate religious belief that does not interfere with my rights.

    The problem, however, is that moderate people like yourself either tend to ignore the darker facets of their religions or are unaware of them. They are still there. Sure, the religion teaches kindness and goodness to all and peace and love and all that...but it also teaches that the ruler is above the law; that mass murder is not good in most cases; that punishment for a crime can be placed upon children and grandchildren and entire bloodlines; and that faith, tradition and ancient morals are more important than skepticism, reason and intellectual reevaluation.


    Religion has a "dark" side of course as do all things. We are flawed beings and anything that we do is inherently flawed because of lack of understanding beyond our own experiences. I do not ignore this, but rather accentuate the positive effects. What good does focusing on the nasty effects all the time do me? I acknowledge them and very often call that stuff out in real life.

    Also, you are not getting Judaism and the deep-rooted need to question. I Still have the feeling you are basing this opinion of Judaism based on hostility towards Christianity.