Is the HPV vaccine available for guys yet?

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    Jul 23, 2010 4:18 AM GMT
    Is the HPV vaccine available for guys yet? I keep reading recent articles that say yes and others that say its still pending...does anyone know for sure?
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    Jul 23, 2010 5:18 AM GMT
    Nothing prevents it from being prescribed for anyone, however, as the above poster states, your insurance company will deny coverage. It's 'off-label' use for males. It's a series of three injections over several months, the cost of which is around $500 total.

    You should have an anal PAP smear prior to spending your money on it. If you are already infected with a known high-risk HPV, the vaccine (Gardasil) will do you no good as the processes that lead to dysplasia may already be underway.

    There are several prior threads on HPV infection, anal dysplasia and anal cancer. I treat anal dysplasia every day and would be happy to answer some general (non-medical advice) questions off thread for you. Shoot a message if you like.
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    Jul 23, 2010 5:32 AM GMT
    Or... just don't get it. haha. It has been the most marketed vaccine by any drug company in history, it's a wonder why everyone thinks they need it.
  • Abc123456

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    Jul 23, 2010 5:53 AM GMT
    Everything you need to know is right....here: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/964409/.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:03 AM GMT
    All I'm saying is that the vaccine only 'protects' (purportedly) against certain aspects or particular causes of HPV in WOMEN, and that those girls who were urged to get it often did so due to the hype, and many saw several adverse reactions, like having seizures, or other major repercussions. I don't trust it as far as I can create it.

    I only take a vaccine if it is legally required for me to do so in order to travel to a particular country. otherwise I keep my distance.

    And it's a bit misleading, because it can't 'protect' you from cancer, which many people assume, it just reduces the 'risk' of a particular type of cancer potentially caused by a particular rare infection. So... weighing the potential negatives from the potential positives... yeah, I'd say it's a lot of hype.

    'Hype' doesn't mean it can't be potentially useful and helpful for some people, but it does mean that people tend to get ONE perspective on the use of the vaccine, as opposed to having an actual discussion about it.

    It was the biggest ad campaign for a vaccine in history, but it was also one of the least tested. That, to me, is concerning. So when people say, "Where can I get the shot?" I say, "where did you get your information?"
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:06 AM GMT
    http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:09 AM GMT
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/health/policy/20vaccine.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1219244494-RoSoOUDyGcwdbs6sjLcrEw
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:19 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidI know of a guy who had the vaccine and he has not had any adverse reactions to it.

    Oh well....what is a guy to do these days? icon_sad.gif


    Lucky guy. But the way I see it, you're just as lucky to not get the disease or the particular cancer as you are to not have adverse reactions to the vaccine which does not ENSURE you won't get HPV or caner... so... why bother?

    Drug companies aren't interested in cures, they're interested in selling drugs. Disease is good for business. I'd rather steer clear of both disease and drugs. Disease may be inevitable, but I can make the choice about the drugs.

    So what is a guy to do? Make a choice. I made mine. Naturally, it won't be the same decision everyone makes, but I just fear this mentality that urges people to get whatever jab they're told is good for them.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:21 AM GMT
    dash3echo saidEverything you need to know is right....here: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/964409/.


    there is so much 'mis'information in that thread as to make it dangerous.

    Gardasil protects against only four HPV valences... Types 6 and 11 which are the two most common wart viruses, and types 16 and 18 which are the two virus types most commonly found in squamous cell carcinomas of the cervix and anus. There are well over 100 HPV types, dozens of which cause warts and dozens of which can lead to dysplasia/cancer. If you get an anal PAP smear and ask for 'HPV typing', you can find out which types you are infected with. You and a well-informed clinician can then make appropriate decisions about how to manage your health. these forums are definitely not the place to be getting information that might seriously affect your health.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:22 AM GMT
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo saidEverything you need to know is right....here: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/964409/.


    there is so much 'mis'information in that thread as to make it dangerous.

    Gardasil protects against only four HPV valences... Types 6 and 11 which are the two most common wart viruses, and types 16 and 18 which are the two virus types most commonly found in squamous cell carcinomas of the cervix and anus. There are well over 100 HPV types, dozens of which cause warts and dozens of which can lead to dysplasia/cancer. If you get an anal PAP smear and ask for 'HPV typing', you can find out which types you are infected with. You and a well-informed clinician can then make appropriate decisions about how to manage your health. these forums are definitely not the place to be getting information that might seriously affect your health.


    And we have a winner.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:23 AM GMT
    MeOhMy saidhttp://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html


    And, as the article you quote states:

    "Of the people who reported adverse reactions, the most common side-effect was pain at the injection site, according to a recent CDC report."

    Hysteria much?






  • Abc123456

    Posts: 336

    Jul 23, 2010 6:25 AM GMT
    You'd be the guy who doesn't vaccinate his kids against measles, mumps, rubella, swine flu, common flu, hepatitis and so on. Do you know how a mouse is made? Do you know how coke is made? Do you know how your car is made?

    It's strongly marketed because it will save numerous lives. If you crunch the numbers on reactions to the vaccination, it's around 1 in a million... do you know what the statistics are for genital hpv? 80% of people will be infected with genital hpv... 4/5 people. Sure most ppl will clear it... but a fuck-load more than 1 in a million will end up dying from it...or with genital warts. Don't be dumb, it's just a shot.

    If hpv causes cancer (which it does, that's what paps test for, mutation of your cells), and you make it so your body does not get infected by hpv, then you don't get mutated cells.... the vaccine will prevent cancer -- that's why they're pushing it.

    I truly don't get people who are against this shot... what benefit is there from pushing a vaccination that doesn't work when it has SO much media coverage? We'll all know about it if we end up getting anal/cervical cancer. If you're really concerned about the vaccine, check out the trials, there's conclusive evidence there.

  • Abc123456

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    Jul 23, 2010 6:28 AM GMT
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo saidEverything you need to know is right....here: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/964409/.


    there is so much 'mis'information in that thread as to make it dangerous.

    Gardasil protects against only four HPV valences... Types 6 and 11 which are the two most common wart viruses, and types 16 and 18 which are the two virus types most commonly found in squamous cell carcinomas of the cervix and anus. There are well over 100 HPV types, dozens of which cause warts and dozens of which can lead to dysplasia/cancer. If you get an anal PAP smear and ask for 'HPV typing', you can find out which types you are infected with. You and a well-informed clinician can then make appropriate decisions about how to manage your health. these forums are definitely not the place to be getting information that might seriously affect your health.


    those 4 strains of HPV are responsible for 90% of genital warts and 70% of cervical cancers.

    Are you a doctor? What's the mis information in that thread?
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:34 AM GMT
    dash3echo said

    If hpv causes cancer (which it does, that's what paps test for, mutation of your cells), and you make it so your body does not get infected by hpv, then you don't get mutated cells.... the vaccine will prevent cancer -- that's why they're pushing it.



    fear of a reaction is not the reason to avoid the vaccine. it DOES work, but only against four types, only two of which can lead to cancer. If a person is already infected with a high-risk HPV type OTHER THAN types 16 and 18, the vaccine is worthless... Not too difficult to understand.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:37 AM GMT
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo said

    If hpv causes cancer (which it does, that's what paps test for, mutation of your cells), and you make it so your body does not get infected by hpv, then you don't get mutated cells.... the vaccine will prevent cancer -- that's why they're pushing it.



    fear of a reaction is not the reason to avoid the vaccine. it DOES work, but only against four types, only two of which can lead to cancer. If a person is already infected with a high-risk HPV type OTHER THAN types 16 and 18, the vaccine is worthless... Not too difficult to understand.


    16 and 18 cause the majority of cervical cancers, if I understand it correctly.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:42 AM GMT
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy saidhttp://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html


    And, as the article you quote states:

    "Of the people who reported adverse reactions, the most common side-effect was pain at the injection site, according to a recent CDC report."

    Hysteria much?



    And it goes on:

    "Seven per cent had serious side-effects — "about half" the average of vaccines overall, according to the report. There were 31 reported cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a neurological condition that results in temporary but often total body paralysis, with 10 cases confirmed.

    Fifteen deaths were also reported, with 10 of these containing the level of information required for further analysis, according to the CDC."


    Low numbers? Yes. But tell that to those that had those side effects occur. Well... I guess tell that to their families.

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the "success" of a vaccine if it - even if very rarely - causes paralysis and death. Perhaps I just don't understand the logic behind marketing and selling a product that has the potential to paralyze or kill you... but it's okay, because that's VERY rare. Should we not, instead... perfect the product before advertising it as a 'cure'?

    But no. Further testing, further trials, further refinement, research, progress, success... those are too expensive. Statistically it's more positive than negative, so... patent, package, and sell.

    THAT is what I have a problem with.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:44 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy saidhttp://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html


    And, as the article you quote states:

    "Of the people who reported adverse reactions, the most common side-effect was pain at the injection site, according to a recent CDC report."

    Hysteria much?



    And it goes on:

    "Seven per cent had serious side-effects — "about half" the average of vaccines overall, according to the report. There were 31 reported cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a neurological condition that results in temporary but often total body paralysis, with 10 cases confirmed.

    Fifteen deaths were also reported, with 10 of these containing the level of information required for further analysis, according to the CDC."


    Low numbers? Yes. But tell that to those that had those side effects occur. Well... I guess tell that to their families.

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the "success" of a vaccine if it - even if very rarely - causes paralysis and death. Perhaps I just don't understand the logic behind marketing and selling a product that has the potential to paralyze or kill you... but it's okay, because that's VERY rare. Should we not, instead... perfect the product before advertising it as a 'cure'?

    But no. Further testing, further trials, further refinement, research, progress, success... those are too expensive. Statistically it's more positive than negative, so... patent, package, and sell.

    THAT is what I have a problem with.


    So let's not put it on the market. Then try to explain to someone who gets HPV why we have a vaccine put didn't put it out there.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:45 AM GMT
    dash3echo said
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo saidEverything you need to know is right....here: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/964409/.


    there is so much 'mis'information in that thread as to make it dangerous.

    Gardasil protects against only four HPV valences... Types 6 and 11 which are the two most common wart viruses, and types 16 and 18 which are the two virus types most commonly found in squamous cell carcinomas of the cervix and anus. There are well over 100 HPV types, dozens of which cause warts and dozens of which can lead to dysplasia/cancer. If you get an anal PAP smear and ask for 'HPV typing', you can find out which types you are infected with. You and a well-informed clinician can then make appropriate decisions about how to manage your health. these forums are definitely not the place to be getting information that might seriously affect your health.


    those 4 strains of HPV are responsible for 90% of genital warts and 70% of cervical cancers.

    Are you a doctor? What's the mis information in that thread?


    not that what I do has anything to do with reality.... I'm a PA-C in internal medicine specializing in men's health, HIV and anal dysplasia.

    Statements from the thread mentioned include such gems as (to paraphrase), "vitamin A reduces HPV infection risk" and "condoms DO NOT HELP"... They are just unbelievable. I could parse/dissect every paragraph but I'm too sleepy... Gotta go to bed. Everyone should talk to a specialist about this stuff.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:47 AM GMT
    dash_8 said
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo said

    If hpv causes cancer (which it does, that's what paps test for, mutation of your cells), and you make it so your body does not get infected by hpv, then you don't get mutated cells.... the vaccine will prevent cancer -- that's why they're pushing it.



    fear of a reaction is not the reason to avoid the vaccine. it DOES work, but only against four types, only two of which can lead to cancer. If a person is already infected with a high-risk HPV type OTHER THAN types 16 and 18, the vaccine is worthless... Not too difficult to understand.


    16 and 18 cause the majority of cervical cancers, if I understand it correctly.


    ...and anal cancers. You DO understand correctly. But the 'majority' is not 'all'. Many anal and cervical cancers are caused by high-risk types besides types 16 and 18.
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    Jul 23, 2010 6:51 AM GMT
    dash3echo saidYou'd be the guy who doesn't vaccinate his kids against measles, mumps, rubella, swine flu, common flu, hepatitis and so on. Do you know how a mouse is made? Do you know how coke is made? Do you know how your car is made?


    So, is you throwing in non-sequitors supposed to prove something?

    I am not injecting a 'mouse' into my body in the hopes of preventing cancer. I am using it for my computer. That... is a slight difference.

    Coke. I don't drink coke because it isn't good for you, least of all diet coke and aspartene. I don't trust Coke, so I try to avoid drinking it. What's your point? Do I know how it's made? No. Do you? Maybe... we should, no?

    A car. I take the bus. And again... I don't take the bus thinking that it's going to cure cancer, and I'm not injecting it into my body. Is there a risk in taking the bus? Sure. There can be a car accident, there are no seatbelts, etc. But I have to take the bus to get places. Do I have to take the vaccine? No. So I won't.

    Also, I trust the mechanics and engineers who make the bus much more than I trust Merck, which sells the vaccine. I don't really have any faith in drug companies.

    Bayer, the company that makes aspirin, took a drug off the US market which was infected with AIDS (how did that happen?) and because they still needed to make a profit, they dumped the drug on markets in Europe and Asia, which led to users of the drug getting AIDS and dying. Why? Because Bayer didn't want to lose the opportunity to make a profit.



    But if you want to trust the drug companies. Go ahead.

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    Jul 23, 2010 6:54 AM GMT
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy said
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy saidhttp://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html


    And, as the article you quote states:

    "Of the people who reported adverse reactions, the most common side-effect was pain at the injection site, according to a recent CDC report."

    Hysteria much?



    And it goes on:

    "Seven per cent had serious side-effects — "about half" the average of vaccines overall, according to the report. There were 31 reported cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a neurological condition that results in temporary but often total body paralysis, with 10 cases confirmed.

    Fifteen deaths were also reported, with 10 of these containing the level of information required for further analysis, according to the CDC."


    Low numbers? Yes. But tell that to those that had those side effects occur. Well... I guess tell that to their families.

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the "success" of a vaccine if it - even if very rarely - causes paralysis and death. Perhaps I just don't understand the logic behind marketing and selling a product that has the potential to paralyze or kill you... but it's okay, because that's VERY rare. Should we not, instead... perfect the product before advertising it as a 'cure'?

    But no. Further testing, further trials, further refinement, research, progress, success... those are too expensive. Statistically it's more positive than negative, so... patent, package, and sell.

    THAT is what I have a problem with.


    So let's not put it on the market. Then try to explain to someone who gets HPV why we have a vaccine put didn't put it out there.


    Because it wasn't finished being made to be safe. Maybe I'm old fashioned and think that to sell a drug as a cure, it shouldn't accidentally kill some people. Maybe... it shouldn't be advertised until it's properly created. I dunno... just a thought!
  • Abc123456

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    Jul 23, 2010 6:57 AM GMT
    rightasrain said
    dash_8 said
    rightasrain said
    dash3echo said

    If hpv causes cancer (which it does, that's what paps test for, mutation of your cells), and you make it so your body does not get infected by hpv, then you don't get mutated cells.... the vaccine will prevent cancer -- that's why they're pushing it.



    fear of a reaction is not the reason to avoid the vaccine. it DOES work, but only against four types, only two of which can lead to cancer. If a person is already infected with a high-risk HPV type OTHER THAN types 16 and 18, the vaccine is worthless... Not too difficult to understand.


    16 and 18 cause the majority of cervical cancers, if I understand it correctly.


    ...and anal cancers. You DO understand correctly. But the 'majority' is not 'all'. Many anal and cervical cancers are caused by high-risk types besides types 16 and 18.


    New England Journal of Medicine: High-risk types of HPV, notably HPV-16, were detected in 84 percent of anal cancer specimens examined. It's not 100%... but it's pretty damn substantial.

    Condoms may reduce infection but they don't prevent it... I mean come on, when you're rolling around naked with a guy do you have a condom on? The statement about condoms not working is pretty true. HPV is highly contagious. Putting a condom on isn't going to prevent you from getting the virus unless it's on the shaft of the cock or inside the asshole.

    I agree, you should talk to your doc about this stuff... but when i went to get my vaccine, my doc didn't know shit about Gardasil and its affect on men. I scoped out the New England Journal of Medicine to find out what I was getting myself into.
  • Abc123456

    Posts: 336

    Jul 23, 2010 6:57 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy said
    dash_8 said
    MeOhMy saidhttp://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2008/07/07/adversereactions-gardasil.html


    And, as the article you quote states:

    "Of the people who reported adverse reactions, the most common side-effect was pain at the injection site, according to a recent CDC report."

    Hysteria much?



    And it goes on:

    "Seven per cent had serious side-effects — "about half" the average of vaccines overall, according to the report. There were 31 reported cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS), a neurological condition that results in temporary but often total body paralysis, with 10 cases confirmed.

    Fifteen deaths were also reported, with 10 of these containing the level of information required for further analysis, according to the CDC."


    Low numbers? Yes. But tell that to those that had those side effects occur. Well... I guess tell that to their families.

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the "success" of a vaccine if it - even if very rarely - causes paralysis and death. Perhaps I just don't understand the logic behind marketing and selling a product that has the potential to paralyze or kill you... but it's okay, because that's VERY rare. Should we not, instead... perfect the product before advertising it as a 'cure'?

    But no. Further testing, further trials, further refinement, research, progress, success... those are too expensive. Statistically it's more positive than negative, so... patent, package, and sell.

    THAT is what I have a problem with.


    So let's not put it on the market. Then try to explain to someone who gets HPV why we have a vaccine put didn't put it out there.


    Because it wasn't finished being made to be safe. Maybe I'm old fashioned and think that to sell a drug as a cure, it shouldn't accidentally kill some people. Maybe... it shouldn't be advertised until it's properly created. I dunno... just a thought!


    Dude... who died from the vaccine?
    ""After careful review of those reports, we could not establish the causal relationship between vaccination and death," reads the VAERS report."
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    Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM GMT
    [quote]
    New England Journal of Medicine: High-risk types of HPV, notably HPV-16, were detected in 84 percent of anal cancer specimens examined. It's not 100%... but it's pretty damn substantial.

    Condoms may reduce infection but they don't prevent it... I mean come on, when you're rolling around naked with a guy do you have a condom on? The statement about condoms not working is pretty true. HPV is highly contagious. Putting a condom on isn't going to prevent you from getting the virus unless it's on the shaft of the cock or inside the asshole.

    I agree, you should talk to your doc about this stuff... but when i went to get my vaccine, my doc didn't know shit about Gardasil and its affect on men. I scoped out the New England Journal of Medicine to find out what I was getting myself into.
    [/quote]

    important nuance follows...

    1. just because 84% of squamous cell carcinoma (SCC) tumors of the anus (cervix too) have type 16 HPV in them, doesn't mean that's the only HPV type in them or the only HPV type that originally influenced the development of the dysplasia/tumor (read the NEJM quote). multiple high-risk HPV types can influence (at the same time) the development of SCC. that's why protection (i.e. Gardasil) against type 16 and 18 isn't enough to prevent development of SCC. that's also why if you already are infected with another high-risk type besides type 16 and 18, Gardasil is worthless... because the other high-risk types can still cause the cancer... even in the face of having had the Gardasil vaccine.

    2. the statement about condoms not working is not 'pretty true'. most SCCs of the anus occur at the squamocolumnar junction (SC jn) about 1.5-2" INSIDE the anus. this border is where the squamous epithelium of the outside of the body (i.e. your skin) becomes the columnar epithelium that lines the GI tract all the way up to the bottom of the esophagus. HPVs do not infect columnar epithelium... they infect only squamous epithelium. the cells at the SC jn are very fragile and more subject to the influence of HPV infection. although we do see anal cancers on the anal verge (the pucker) and perianal tissues (Bowen's disease), the majority of anal cancers develop inside the anus. so wearing a condom 'may provide' (CDC verbage) exposure prevention for you and your partner... although not on uncovered skin near the base of the shaft, as you already noted.

    Gardasil is an important addition to the arsenal of treatments, however, it's not 'enough' to prevent anal or cervical cancer. don't be led to believe that because you get Gardasil you can't develop anal cancer... you can!
  • Abc123456

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    Jul 23, 2010 4:00 PM GMT
    That was awesomely complete. Thanks rightasrain!

    There have also been studies that have shown the vaccine protects against other strains too. I absolutely agree - condom use is still necessary and that yeah, there is still a chance people will develop cancer, but I also think that it's better to be a have the vaccine, than not. A lot of people are under the impression that our bodies will naturally deal with HPV and though that may be partially true, IMO the risks of the vaccine is better than the cost of not getting it.