A lot of people live by the quote "Live and let live" or "do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"...but what if someone is doing something that is fucked up and wrong?

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    Jul 24, 2010 5:01 AM GMT
    The Golden Rule:When we live and let live, we don't need to criticize, judge, or condemn others. We have no need to control them or try and make them conform to our way of thinking. We let others live their own lives and we live ours.


    ...but what if someone is doing something that is legally wrong? That you personally think and the mass populace thinks is wrong in high-regard? Do you believe you should step in, call the police, or should you just let them live and do as they want? and ignore what they're doing as it shouldn't concern you?

    I know many fraternities, brotherhood organizations, and society clubs have similar policies that all must follow when they join, such as "what happens here, stays here" and "do as thou wilt.." or else you can risk being kicked out, or even killed for being a "rat".

    But...what would cause you to go against your brotherhood, club, friend, family member that you had this mutual agreement with to let them live as they want, or go against these policies you hold close to you if you live by them?


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    Jul 24, 2010 5:04 AM GMT
    Sodomy is against the law in some states. Homosexuality is against the law in some countries.
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    Jul 24, 2010 5:11 AM GMT
    Well, I would hope that my fraternity would never make me do something like that... however, if I saw or knew of someone getting hazed, I would call nationals and turn them in in a heartbeat. (and I know what people say, but my fraternity does not haze... or at least to my knowledge they haven't hazed anyone in the classes above, same, or below me. )

    But, like a fight, a guy overpowering a woman, those circumstances, you would have to pull me off the guy before I broke his bones. Two dudes getting into a fight, sure, fine, whatever... you mess with a girl and your ass is grass. ...also kids.

    EDIT: As to knowing if a brother does sexual/physical abuse... not only would I jump his ass, I would turn him into the police for it. The guy definitely doesn't practice LHT, (Love, Honor, Truth) and has no place among my fraternity.
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    Jul 24, 2010 5:12 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidSodomy is against the law in some states. Homosexuality is against the law in some countries.


    That is true but I was thinking more in regards of sexual and physical abuse/assault. If you were in a fraternity and you knew one of your brothers was doing something wrong but you were both in the same organization together and are supposed to mind your own business, and the other brothers in the organization know it's going on but none are willing to call him out on it or do anything about it as we all live by this certain agreement to let others live & do as they want. What would you do?

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 24, 2010 6:41 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidSodomy is against the law in some states. Homosexuality is against the law in some countries.



    Actually, the United States Supreme Court ruled that sodomy is legal in all states.
  • xebec75

    Posts: 243

    Jul 24, 2010 3:20 PM GMT
    First off, I'm going to ignore your mixed/misquoted introduction to this thread.

    But as I see it, you joined an organization that has a set of rules that are clear and straightforward and to which you agreed to follow as a member(not saying that was good or bad). You also seem to have ethical and or moral issues with something that is happening in this organization. You have two choices...and yes they both are not going to be any fun.

    #1 Quit organization and address your ethical/moral problem in the way in which you think is best.

    #2 Stay in the organization and keep your mouth shut.

    I don't think you can have it both ways and in fact it is unreasonable for you to expect to. I'm not in a fraternal organization but everyone knows what they are about...good and bad. So you can be reasonably be expected to follow the rules of the fraternity as long as you are a member.

    Sorry kiddo...them's the breaks.
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    Jul 24, 2010 9:32 PM GMT
    I was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 24, 2010 9:42 PM GMT
    as a member of a house, it is your duty to report this shit. i love my brothers, and if any brother were doing something that put another brother and the chapter in general at risk i would make sure to end the abuse right away. people can do what they want, but as soon as what they want infringes on the lives of other people it is then your business
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 24, 2010 9:45 PM GMT
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers
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    Jul 24, 2010 9:46 PM GMT
    tell the dean of your College the Dean is always higher then the Fraternity
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    Jul 24, 2010 9:46 PM GMT
    JoshT said
    The Golden Rule:When we live and let live, we don't need to criticize, judge, or condemn others. We have no need to control them or try and make them conform to our way of thinking. We let others live their own lives and we live ours.


    ...but what if someone is doing something that is legally wrong? That you personally think and the mass populace thinks is wrong in high-regard? Do you believe you should step in, call the police, or should you just let them live and do as they want? and ignore what they're doing as it shouldn't concern you?

    I know many fraternities, brotherhood organizations, and society clubs have similar policies that all must follow when they join, such as "what happens here, stays here" and "do as thou wilt.." or else you can risk being kicked out, or even killed for being a "rat".

    But...what would cause you to go against your brotherhood, club, friend, family member that you had this mutual agreement with to let them live as they want, or go against these policies you hold close to you if you live by them?




    When someone take advantage of someone else, for egoist benefit, that golden rule doesn't stand.

    Don't you feel the hurge to step in when a kid is beaten, a women raped, a minority linched ?

    Not intruding in other personal choice is unrelated to letting someone abuse someone else.

    It's wrong to judge or interfer with someone personal choice, but it's doesn't cut you of the moral responsibility to protect human fellows against abuse.

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    Jul 24, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    Jeez man you guys and your "fraternities" ... they sound seriously f*cked up???
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    Jul 24, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    calibro said
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers



    I wish it was a work of fiction, but satanic ritual abuse happened to me. I know my experience and have read of others. I think the franklin cover-up is the most telling of all the stories I've read. http://www.raven1.net/ra1.htm
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    Jul 24, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    KevinJr said
    calibro said
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers



    I wish it was a work of fiction, but satanic ritual abuse happened to me. I know my experience and have read of others. I think the franklin cover-up is the most telling of all the stories I've read. http://www.raven1.net/ra1.htm


    So what do you get from Satan in return for these human sacrifices? Not that I would dream of doing such a thing of course ... just curious ...?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 24, 2010 10:13 PM GMT
    KevinJr said
    calibro said
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers



    I wish it was a work of fiction, but satanic ritual abuse happened to me. I know my experience and have read of others. I think the franklin cover-up is the most telling of all the stories I've read. http://www.raven1.net/ra1.htm


    umm... the Franklin case was a hoax and Bonnaci never won his trial because of his claims but he received a default ruling because the defense failed to show up. That's like winning the superbowl because the other team decided not to play. and yes, i think you're full of shit.
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    Jul 24, 2010 10:32 PM GMT
    So far most people have assumed that you are referring to a fraternity- but you have not said. I suppose that it depends on what act is being committed- what law is being broke.

    When it comes to "live and let live" I would argue that exists so long as the person is "letting live." When somebodies actions are directly impacting only themselves I would not worry. If someone is microwaving the family pet I would argue that it no longer impacts only themselves. If somebody's actions are impacting others it is easy to see they are not following the "let live" part of your saying.

    If it were hazing for a fraternity then those who are being beat are there of their own free will. For whatever the hell reason they believe that the short term pain / humiliation are worth it to belong to a group and nobody is forcing them to stay. We all make our own choices. If it is somebody taking advantage of somebody else without allowing them "free will" I would be concerned; if it is hurting others (say illegal fraud activities) then I think you no longer can apply a "live and let live' philosophy.

    I suppose that everybody has their own set of morals and standards. There are those who stand by while genocide is being committed and say nothing because they took an oath. There are those who call bylaw because their neighbours car is illegally parked. You need to decide on what weight your oath to an organization carries as well as who they are harming and the extent of that harm.
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    Jul 24, 2010 10:43 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Brit_Bloke said[/cite]
    So what do you get from Satan in return for these human sacrifices? Not that I would dream of doing such a thing of course ... just curious ...?[/quot

    A fragmented mind is all I got from it which allowed me to leave my body, as another personality took over. I would blank out and wake up in blood with a dead body near me not knowing exactly what happened or what took place. So I guess you can say I assumed it was a human sacrifice because my mind protected me from dealing with the fear & emotions of it all.

    I remember being told to drink the blood, because the blood is full of adrenaline due to the fear of the sacrificed. My mom use to place me in the mirror room for days without food, I was drugged often as I remember so many butterflies and fairytale like scenarios like a huge stage production taking place of archetypes and arch dieties. I remember seeing different devils but it was all dreamlike. I guess they mainly get power, I'm still processing it all after 6 years since I ran away.

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    Jul 24, 2010 10:44 PM GMT
    calibro said
    KevinJr said
    calibro said
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers



    I wish it was a work of fiction, but satanic ritual abuse happened to me. I know my experience and have read of others. I think the franklin cover-up is the most telling of all the stories I've read. http://www.raven1.net/ra1.htm


    umm... the Franklin case was a hoax and Bonnaci never won his trial because of his claims but he received a default ruling because the defense failed to show up. That's like winning the superbowl because the other team decided not to play. and yes, i think you're full of shit.



    Since you're going by wikipedia's page it also says...


    To assume that the 'hoax' was crafted assumed the existence of a craftsman. Who was it? To state that it was 'carefully crafted' assumes someone with intelligence and enough knowledge of accurate facts to make the 'hoax' credible. . . . We can find no clear evidence which conclusively establishes what was the truth and what was a hoax.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 24, 2010 10:51 PM GMT
    KevinJr said
    calibro said
    KevinJr said
    calibro said
    KevinJr saidI was born into a family of satanists. I was brought up to do human sacrifices as well as other horrible things, but I ran away when I was 15 and never looked back. Originally I sought refugee at a church, but once I told them my story they tried to use me for their own purpose. I even told this church where many kids were hidden at to be sacrificed or used within the satanic church, but they never did anything to help them. I couldn't go to the law enforcement as my dad has friends there who are also involved in the rituals.

    There's not much you can do besides leave, and not tell anyone where you are going. Especially if those in the organization/family/fraternity are above the law, as was the case with my family.


    Oh please. Michelle Smith, RJ is for gay men...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Remembers



    I wish it was a work of fiction, but satanic ritual abuse happened to me. I know my experience and have read of others. I think the franklin cover-up is the most telling of all the stories I've read. http://www.raven1.net/ra1.htm


    umm... the Franklin case was a hoax and Bonnaci never won his trial because of his claims but he received a default ruling because the defense failed to show up. That's like winning the superbowl because the other team decided not to play. and yes, i think you're full of shit.



    Since you're going by wikipedia's page it also says...


    To assume that the 'hoax' was crafted assumed the existence of a craftsman. Who was it? To state that it was 'carefully crafted' assumes someone with intelligence and enough knowledge of accurate facts to make the 'hoax' credible. . . . We can find no clear evidence which conclusively establishes what was the truth and what was a hoax.


    i'm glad you know how to quote wikipedia. now either use real evidence or don't say anything. and there's a difference between using facts that wikipedia uses and quoting wikipedia as fact. my statement is public record and fact, which is mutually exclusive to it being on wikipedia; yours isn't. finally, this has nothing to do with ritual satanic abuse as much as the franklin case was about prostitution and possibly child prostitution. and yes, you're still full of shit.
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    Jul 24, 2010 10:55 PM GMT
    KevinJr said[quote][cite]Brit_Bloke said[/cite]
    So what do you get from Satan in return for these human sacrifices? Not that I would dream of doing such a thing of course ... just curious ...?[/quot

    A fragmented mind is all I got from it which allowed me to leave my body, as another personality took over. I would blank out and wake up in blood with a dead body near me not knowing exactly what happened or what took place. So I guess you can say I assumed it was a human sacrifice because my mind protected me from dealing with the fear & emotions of it all.

    I remember being told to drink the blood, because the blood is full of adrenaline due to the fear of the sacrificed. My mom use to place me in the mirror room for days without food, I was drugged often as I remember so many butterflies and fairytale like scenarios like a huge stage production taking place of archetypes and arch dieties. I remember seeing different devils but it was all dreamlike. I guess they mainly get power, I'm still processing it all after 6 years since I ran away.



    Doesn't sound like much in return for taking the risk of committing murder.

    I thought at the very least there'd be a substantial amount of cash involved.
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    Jul 24, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    Full of shit or not, shit like this is happening around us:







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    Jul 24, 2010 11:27 PM GMT
    You'd have thought that Satan might at least sort Vicky's weight out for her.
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    Jul 24, 2010 11:32 PM GMT
    Brit_Bloke saidYou'd have thought that Satan might at least sort Vicky's weight out for her.


    She has to stay that way to be a breeder to make babies for sacrifices. Oprah said she was made up to look different for her protection, maybe she's wearing a fat suit. I didn't buy her claims, she laughs too much, and doesn't show any emotion really. Oprah most likely hired her as an actress. Oprah herself is an actress who has lied about her upbringing.
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    Jul 24, 2010 11:33 PM GMT
    Cannibalism said
    Brit_Bloke saidYou'd have thought that Satan might at least sort Vicky's weight out for her.


    She has to stay that way to be a breeder to make babies for sacrifices. Oprah said she was made up to look different for her protection, maybe she's wearing a fat suit. I didn't buy her claims, she laughs too much, and doesn't show any emotion really. Oprah most likely hired her as an actress. Oprah herself is an actress who has lied about her upbringing.


    If you don't buy her claims, why did you post this as "evidence" of what goes on?

    And that's one mighty realistic fat suit.

    Are you on medication?

    Should you be?
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    Jul 24, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    JoshT said
    The Golden Rule:When we live and let live, we don't need to criticize, judge, or condemn others. We have no need to control them or try and make them conform to our way of thinking. We let others live their own lives and we live ours.


    ...but what if someone is doing something that is legally wrong? That you personally think and the mass populace thinks is wrong in high-regard? Do you believe you should step in, call the police, or should you just let them live and do as they want? and ignore what they're doing as it shouldn't concern you?



    If it involves a child/minor - report it.
    If the adult being hurt is being hurt without giving their consent - report it.
    If the adult being hurt is in a mind altered state so their judgment is compromised - report it.