Another College Campus Shooting at NIU

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 14, 2008 10:52 PM GMT
    It sad to hear that another place of learning has been turned into a horror where violence has taken place. Not much is known at this time, other than a shooting has taken place. icon_sad.gifhttp://www.wifr.com/ has more information.

    Wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this subject.
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    Feb 14, 2008 11:09 PM GMT
    What is up with all these copycat shootings? Can't they think of some other place to shoot people other than educational facilities? There comes a point when it's just like... "Oh, God. You're just doing this for the attention."
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    Feb 14, 2008 11:51 PM GMT
    Japultra - I disagree with your comment. I don't think people do it for attention. Most of the shooters kill them selfs and they never really experience the 'attention.' Why would they kill a lot of people and then commit suicide for 'attention?'

    JapultraCan't they think of some other place to shoot people


    ^ WTF! Why should they be killing at all?

    I want to know why people decide to kill people in a public setting, or why they kill people at all. Does anyone knowicon_question.gif
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    Feb 15, 2008 12:13 AM GMT
    The fact that it is always an educational facility raises a flag to me. Even if they don't get the attention during their life, they still leave a sort of "legacy" behind. It's comparable to a soldier dying for "honor". The soldier isn't alive to experience the honor, but to them it's a cause they are willing to die for and be remembered for.

    Of course I agree with you that no one should be killed at all, but let's face it - these people are gonna end up killing anyway. And at some point, people are just gonna get sick and tired of the same old headlines over and over. I already am.
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    Feb 15, 2008 12:21 AM GMT
    I have a hard time believing that these students are killing for 'honor' or some sort of 'legacy.' I think it might be more about depression form what society expects of them. Then they blowup and just go nuts. I have no idea why someone would want to take their own life, let alone random people as well. Is there some kind of pattern from these people that decide to kill in schools, malls, and other public areas? What makes them snap?
  • cityguy39

    Posts: 967

    Feb 15, 2008 12:24 AM GMT
    I went to Northern my freshman year in 1983 that was a fantastic year for me there, it really makes me sad to see the turn this country is taking. I think everyone has the right to go about their daily lives without having to worry about if your going to be shot or not. What is going to end up happing is that we will end up like London with cameras on every corner and every building with metal detectors. It makes no sense.
    I just got a news flash, 5 of the shooting victims have died!

    Doug
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    Feb 15, 2008 12:29 AM GMT
    I believe it is. The more people you kill, the more lives you affect. The more lives you affect, the more your message gets through. These people are trying to leave a last message and they want people to remember that message. This message becomes their legacy.

    What they don't realize is, in this day and age, people will forget that message faster than you can microwave popcorn. The VT shooter even made a tape conveying what he wanted the world to hear. That tape was his legacy. But people don't remember that message. Hell, Virginia Tech is my alma mater. My sister lived in the same dorm building as the guy, and I can't even really remember what the point of the tape was other than he blamed everyone else for all the problems in his life. Dumb f*ck.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 15, 2008 12:41 AM GMT
    Yeah ... but it's not the guns who kill these people

    they just get in the way of the bullets of legally obtained guns and responsible gun owners
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    Feb 15, 2008 1:24 AM GMT
    This is once again terrible news. Something needs to be done about the gun control laws in the US, even though I am aware how powerful the gun lobby is in that country.
    My thoughts are with the families and friends who have lost loved ones today.
  • cityguy39

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    Feb 15, 2008 2:12 AM GMT
    Thought you guys might want to know, the death toll just went up to 6.

    Doug
  • SkyMiles

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    Feb 15, 2008 2:36 AM GMT
    Our culture really does glorify guns, and violence as a way of righting wrongs real or percieved. I can't recall a movie or TV show where the 'hero' gets beat up, screwed over, etc., then just sucks it up and moves on. Sh*t, I don't anyone who'd watch it!

    Plus, the plain truth is that America as a whole loves guns more than kids. After Columbine, VA Tech and now this, our country's priorities are fairly obvious.
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    Feb 15, 2008 3:27 AM GMT
    cityguy39 saidI went to Northern my freshman year in 1983 that was a fantastic year for me there, it really makes me sad to see the turn this country is taking. I think everyone has the right to go about their daily lives without having to worry about if your going to be shot or not. What is going to end up happing is that we will end up like London with cameras on every corner and every building with metal detectors. It makes no sense.
    I just got a news flash, 5 of the shooting victims have died!

    Doug


    You say 'end up like London'; I think it would be a good idea to emulate England in some regards. Citizens are not allowed to have guns, for the most part, and they have a very low rate of gun incidences. Secondly, they have cameras everywhere not so much to monitor, but in case something does happen, like the terrorist attacks in their Underground a couple years ago, they have hard evidence.

    Also, going out and killing people in public, in my opinion, goes way beyond low self esteem and 'copy-catting', these people have a psychological condition. This outlines the bigger problem in the US as to how many people should be treated for these conditions, but never even get diagnosed. And the ones that do get diagnosed often deny treatment due to the condition and the cost.

    England has an interesting approach in this regard. First, free health care, which I am not advocating or rejecting, that treats these people. And second, they have made it very difficult to acquire a gun, therefore something like this would be premeditated rather than heat of the moment. Thus for someone with a mental condition, this could be the difference between open firing on campus due to a hormonal imbalance that morning(for example) and doing something much less extreme.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 3:43 AM GMT
    we have a similar system in australia as in the UK. After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, all automatic and semi-automatic guns were recalled in a government buyback scheme and destroyed. It became illegal to sell these kinds of weapons in this country. Even most rifles were bought back under the scheme. And if you genuinely needed a firearm for your profession (ie: farmers etc) then you had to renew your license and be tested in all kinds of areas and register all your weaponry. you must keep weapons locked away, with ammunition stored in a different place. it's fairly hard to get a firearm legally in Australia. So that leaves the black market and clandestine operators supplying arms. This is something that no amount of legislation could really stop, to be honest.

    We also have a very comprehensive free health care scheme here in Oz, which although can be faulted at length, is probably better at identifying mental illness in people.

    We don't yet have the extensive CCTV operations as in the UK, but you also must remember that the police force over there do not carry firearms. There is a special squad of cops that do, but most only carry extendable truncheons. These measures are quite interesting, because the amount of people injured by police fire in the US is quite substantive and has led to race riots and all kinds of social unrest. in Australia, we have a very gung-ho police force in Victoria, where unarmed offenders have been shot by police quite frequently. This is being investigated.

    I don't have all the information and knowledge at my fingertips to make any kind of for or against case in regard to gun control, but these things should be debated and considered in any civilised country. The US cannot continue to stand behind the constitution regarding the right to bear arms.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 3:47 AM GMT
    And yet Violent crime hasn't declined in GB since the gun ban. Rather like most of the world it rises and falls as the years pass. You still have the greatest chance to be a violent crime victim in London that anywhere else in Europe.

    People seem to be quick to judge a gun crime as a result of guns. We'd rather blame the object rather than admit people can be flawed.

    You can look back at some of America's worst serial killers to find they enjoyed a variety of killing methods that didn't always involve guns.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 3:47 AM GMT
    Not trying to get this to become a gun control debate but I do believe that more could be done in the buying process of guns to make sure people that are not mentally stable getting guns.

    That being said, it could be possible that if someone that owns a gun could possibly one day break down and have a mental break down and never had a sign of mental illness before that point in time. So screening of those gun buyers wouldn't eliminate that 100%.

    To have strict gun control wouldn't change anything in the U.S. due to the amount of guns that already in the states. Also the black market for guns would just grown. We can't stop illegal drugs from crossing the border and we don't need to add more to the borders patrols burden by baning or great restricting guns.Many here in the United States don't want their rights taken away due to a few bad people ruining it. They would rather have a gun themselves in case of that one time they may need it if their home is broken into.

    Another point, one that wants to harm someone or a group of someone is going to do it at all cost. Gun control may prevent the use of a gun in that action but if they want to harm someone enough they are going to find a way to do it.

    Not too sure what the real answer to the issue of guns on campus. As a college student this is something that has become an increasing worry to myself.

    I think all of this is good debate, I don't have all the answers just bring in this simple Kansans view on this. I don't own a gun but don't think it is my right to limit ones right to own a gun in a legal manner for self defense or hunting.

    It is sad that we even have this post.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 3:54 AM GMT
    I agree that guns should be banned. The people who use them for protection are to protect them from other who also have guns. This is so circular and needs to end.
  • SkyMiles

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    Feb 15, 2008 4:18 AM GMT
    I think all disagreements should be settled in a bloody shoot out, preferrably in the presence of innocent bystanders, men, women and children.

    In fact, if everyone was required to carry guns we could save taxpayer dollars by not having a trained police force at all. Our publicly-funded police force has always carried the stink of creeping socialism, and besides, they'd just complicate the crossfire.

    If everyone was armed, then we would all have the power to adjudicate matters ourselves as our founding fathers clearly intended with the 2nd Ammendment.
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    Feb 15, 2008 7:59 AM GMT
    I think it has to do with the public educational system in the US. The bullying etc. Social stratification. There are always outcasts out there.

    I don't think it's because of the availability of guns. It's the society they are in.

    That said, I've never been to an American school, what I know of it is from movies and secondhand knowledge from a childhood friend who's studying now in Texas. She always marvels at how different schools are over there. icon_confused.gif Cliques are much more xenophobic, and the occasional racist/bigoted remarks. And the fact that the teachers don't seem to care at all. icon_confused.gif

    I mean, I'm not being anti-American, but don't you think it's funny, that almost ALL school shooting/suicide by students only happen in the US?

    EDIT: oh yeah. I think the cameras on street corners is a good idea. I'm very liberal, but I don't give a flying fuck about the arguments against it. The only ones who don't like it are the ones hiding something. Frankly the whole paranoia about it turning into something 1984-esque is just that - paranoia.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 8:20 AM GMT
    If guns were not as accessible it would be less of an issue. But its a culture based on guns, thankfully not all subscribe too and it wont be addressed.

    Must admit gang mentality is much more prevalent in the US but its happening over here now, always has to a degree, but nowhere near as it is in the US. But it shows the educational stance thats being taken is not working.

    So if they wont ban guns what can they do?

  • Salubrious

    Posts: 420

    Feb 15, 2008 8:43 AM GMT
    And in useless hypothetical masturbation scenarios, if everyone in the school were carrying a gun, don't you think that he would have been killed before he could cause further damage?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 15, 2008 8:47 AM GMT
    The 2nd amendment is THE most misunderstood amendment of our time. It was important in the 1700's to have the right to bear arms and protect ones family etc.. Also it was actually designed so that if Government got too powerful citizens had the right to form militias. In the year 2008 it is ridiculous to still think in this way.

    Gun control must be enacted soon.
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    Feb 15, 2008 9:17 AM GMT
    Salubrious saidAnd in useless hypothetical masturbation scenarios, if everyone in the school were carrying a gun, don't you think that he would have been killed before he could cause further damage?


    thats such a typical and yet still worryingly irrational response
  • Salubrious

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    Feb 15, 2008 2:05 PM GMT
    bfg1 said[quote][cite]Salubrious said[/cite]And in useless hypothetical masturbation scenarios, if everyone in the school were carrying a gun, don't you think that he would have been killed before he could cause further damage?


    thats such a typical and yet still worryingly irrational response[/quote]

    As opposed to the rational response that if guns were banned this wouldn't have happened?

    We should be wary of giving the government too much power...
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    Feb 15, 2008 2:08 PM GMT
    The abuses of the few is no reason to take away a right from everyone.If you think taking away guns will solved problems then why don't you apply your logic to every problem item.

    All pills behind the counter, speed preventing chips in cars, camera's in every household. They'll help save lives won't they. Isn't it all worth it by that same anti-gun logic?

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    Feb 16, 2008 6:15 AM GMT
    Trance23 saidThe abuses of the few is no reason to take away a right from everyone.If you think taking away guns will solved problems then why don't you apply your logic to every problem item.

    All pills behind the counter, speed preventing chips in cars, camera's in every household. They'll help save lives won't they. Isn't it all worth it by that same anti-gun logic?



    Well how about when it stops becoming abuse of the few? Which may be where we stand now.

    Americans generally don't care about the right to own guns and that's why we have the lax gun laws we do. There is a small, well funded group that continues to lobby for the right to bear arms, among other gun related issues, and the oppositions is quite small.

    Also, I am not sure what you are arguing. Your stats on crime in the UK are flawed and you don't really make a point in your last statement about pills and speeding.

    My personal opinion- Arguing that owning a gun is a an American right is archaic, irresponsible, and ignorant. Owning and using a gun is a sport and due to the collateral damage of keeping guns around for this reason is just plain stupid.