Some simple UNSPUN FACTS about the state of the economy

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 9:05 PM GMT
    Number one - the 2007-2009 Bush recession is OVER.
    It ended in July 2009.
    Contrary to Republican claims that we're in the "middle of a recession".

    http://www.jobbait.com/a/recession.htm

    Number two - we've had four straight quarters of economic GROWTH.
    It's slow growth, but it's actually STRONGER growth than occured after the 1990-1991 Bush recession and after the Bush 2001 recession.

    http://www.mrswing.com/articles/U_S_Economic_Expansion_Stronger_Over_Last_Quarters.html

    We have a long road to travel to get out of the deep economic hole dug by the Bush administration, but the right-wing spin that we're still in a recession and that things have gotten worse since Obama was elected is a total pile of stinking right-wing BS.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 9:13 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rickrick91 saidNumber one - the 2007-2009 Bush recession is OVER.
    It ended in July 2009.
    Contrary to Republican claims that we're in the "middle of a recession".

    http://www.jobbait.com/a/recession.htm

    Number two - we've had four straight quarters of economic GROWTH.
    It's slow growth, but it's actually STRONGER growth than occured after the 1990-1991 Bush recession and after the Bush 2001 recession.

    http://www.mrswing.com/articles/U_S_Economic_Expansion_Stronger_Over_Last_Quarters.html

    We have a long road to travel to get out of the deep economic hole dug by the Bush administration, but the right-wing spin that we're still in a recession and that things have gotten worse since Obama was elected is a total pile of stinking right-wing BS.


    BS BS BS
    LIES! LIES! LIES!




    You need to pour youself a stiff drink, SB.
    You raving like a lunatic.
    Even more than usual.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    rickrick91 saidYou need to pour youself a stiff drink, SB.
    You raving like a lunatic.
    Even more than usual.

    Ease yourself. You know he has no credibility here, the American version of that guy down in Australia.

    Give someone enough rope and they hang themselves. Most of us here just give him carefully dispensed rope, and wait for the fun.

    So don't stoop to his level. He lowers himself there all by himself. Just give him the material and he takes the bait, every time. He can't help himself.

    Poor guy, he really doesn't understand that the men here aren't muscle-headed jocks. They are well-read, bright, articulate, accomplished, many much more intelligent than I am, who bore through his FOX News talking points like a laser beam.

    So take heart -- in a large membership, there are really relatively few here who actually take this guy seriously. An annoyance we have to tolerate. The up-side is that he illustrates the false arguments used against us, that helps us to sharpen our skills in replying to our enemies in the real world, where it counts.

    That's what I do. He is but an exercise for me. Don't let him be anything more to you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 9:59 PM GMT
    Wilton said
    Ease yourself. You know he has no credibility here, the American version of that guy down in Australia.



    You mean, the American version of the guy who pretends he lives in Australia.

    But, really, they're quite different from one another.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 10:02 PM GMT
    theatrengym said
    Wilton said
    Ease yourself. You know he has no credibility here, the American version of that guy down in Australia.

    You mean, the American version of the guy who pretends he lives in Australia.

    But, really, they're quite different from one another.

    In most ways, yes, that is true. I meant to speak only in terms of credibility & respect, not in style or general views.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 06, 2010 10:08 PM GMT
    Some evidence of this recovery (just from today):

    Jobs Picture Worsens With 131,000 Losses; 9.5% Rate
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/38590746

    Camden Closes Library System
    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/camden-closing-library-system-20100806-apx

    U.S. Employers Shed Jobs
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703309704575412990024153682.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories
  • yankeesblazer...

    Posts: 243

    Aug 07, 2010 12:17 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSome evidence of this recovery (just from today):

    Jobs Picture Worsens With 131,000 Losses; 9.5% Rate
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/38590746

    Camden Closes Library System
    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/camden-closing-library-system-20100806-apx

    U.S. Employers Shed Jobs
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703309704575412990024153682.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories


    LOL...total ownage. Nice post!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 12:42 AM GMT
    UNspun facts? hahahaha

    The recession is "over"? hahahaha

    Sorry, but, looking at economic issues from a Republican vs. Democrat perspective is idiocy. Stop calling it the "Bush Recession," that's lunacy. Bush made the economic problems much worse, yes. But Clinton's administration made it so that the economic crisis could happen. All the movers and shakers in his administration, who dismantled Glass-Steagle, who expanded derivatives, etc., were then brought into the Obama administration to "manage" their mess, and in effect, serve the same interests they have always served: the big banks.

    Unfortunately, that also means they are there to screw you.

    However, the economic crisis did not emerge in a vacuum. It's origins are far-reaching, tracing back to the emergence and influence of the central banking system (1694 in the UK, 1913 in the US), to the nature of the American empire following WWII (with its imperial economic apparatus of the World Bank, IMF and WTO), the neoliberal era born in the Reagan administration, and carried on by every subsequent administration (Republican and Democrat alike), all the way to Obama, who is not a saviour, who has not done anything good for the economy, who has simply delayed the inevitable collapse, in order to allow the banks to plunder the wealth of the nation before the final collapse.

    When the stock market crashed in 1929, the following years were referred to (at the time) as a recession. Two years following, in 1931, all the major media in the US, and politicians and economists alike, were saying that the US and the world were in a "recovery." 1933 was the worst year of the Great Depression, and it lasted until World War II.

    Calling this a "Bush Recession" is disingenuous. Referring to this as a Republican/Democratic issue is naive and only externalizes your own ignorance of the global political economy. This crisis is endemic, and should reveal the ineptitude and irrelevance of party politics, not strengthen the party system and collective thinking. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans on this issue, and ultimately, neither hold that much relevance. These are forces far beyond "party politics", and to continuously frame the issue as such is frankly, a bit tired and vapid.

    I would recommend educating yourself on political economy and history before claiming "UNSPUN FACTS" about economics. Because, they are hardly facts, and most definitely spun.

    The same economists who lied, saying there would be no recession, the economic fundamentals were 'fine', and there was nothing to worry about; the economists who were categorically wrong or misleading (either passively ignorant or actively lying and deceptive) about everything, are the same economists and institutions now claiming we are in "recovery." What is it about "authority" that makes people continually believe everything they are told, even if it is the opposite of logic and reality? Why do people think it is okay to believe the same economists who have been nothing but wrong in the past? Did they all of a sudden develop a brain or conscience? Did they all of a sudden realize the folly of their entire careers and ideologies? Did they suddenly realize that their giant fortunes amassed from helping the banks and corporations get much richer and more powerful were created on ill-gotten grounds? Do they feel bad about lying, and now are turned to tell the truth?

    Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England. Grow up.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 12:44 AM GMT
    Unspun? From Rickrick? Forgive my skepticism...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:01 AM GMT
    MeOhMy saidUNspun facts? hahahaha

    The recession is "over"? hahahaha

    Sorry, but, looking at economic issues from a Republican vs. Democrat perspective is idiocy. Stop calling it the "Bush Recession," that's lunacy. Bush made the economic problems much worse, yes. But Clinton's administration made it so that the economic crisis could happen. All the movers and shakers in his administration, who dismantled Glass-Steagle, who expanded derivatives, etc., were then brought into the Obama administration to "manage" their mess, and in effect, serve the same interests they have always served: the big banks.

    Unfortunately, that also means they are there to screw you.

    However, the economic crisis did not emerge in a vacuum. It's origins are far-reaching, tracing back to the emergence and influence of the central banking system (1694 in the UK, 1913 in the US), to the nature of the American empire following WWII (with its imperial economic apparatus of the World Bank, IMF and WTO), the neoliberal era born in the Reagan administration, and carried on by every subsequent administration (Republican and Democrat alike), all the way to Obama, who is not a saviour, who has not done anything good for the economy, who has simply delayed the inevitable collapse, in order to allow the banks to plunder the wealth of the nation before the final collapse.

    When the stock market crashed in 1929, the following years were referred to (at the time) as a recession. Two years following, in 1931, all the major media in the US, and politicians and economists alike, were saying that the US and the world were in a "recovery." 1933 was the worst year of the Great Depression, and it lasted until World War II.

    Calling this a "Bush Recession" is disingenuous. Referring to this as a Republican/Democratic issue is naive and only externalizes your own ignorance of the global political economy. This crisis is endemic, and should reveal the ineptitude and irrelevance of party politics, not strengthen the party system and collective thinking. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans on this issue, and ultimately, neither hold that much relevance. These are forces far beyond "party politics", and to continuously frame the issue as such is frankly, a bit tired and vapid.

    I would recommend educating yourself on political economy and history before claiming "UNSPUN FACTS" about economics. Because, they are hardly facts, and most definitely spun.

    The same economists who lied, saying there would be no recession, the economic fundamentals were 'fine', and there was nothing to worry about; the economists who were categorically wrong or misleading (either passively ignorant or actively lying and deceptive) about everything, are the same economists and institutions now claiming we are in "recovery." What is it about "authority" that makes people continually believe everything they are told, even if it is the opposite of logic and reality? Why do people think it is okay to believe the same economists who have been nothing but wrong in the past? Did they all of a sudden develop a brain or conscience? Did they all of a sudden realize the folly of their entire careers and ideologies? Did they suddenly realize that their giant fortunes amassed from helping the banks and corporations get much richer and more powerful were created on ill-gotten grounds? Do they feel bad about lying, and now are turned to tell the truth?

    Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England. Grow up.




    NO, you're not the queen of England.
    You're the Queen of BS and excuse-making for the gross incompetence of the Bush administration/s.
    I call the recession the Bush recession BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
    And that's what the history books will call it.
    To deny that is unbeleievably ignorant.

    Your statements that what I posted isn't unspun facts is such total and egregious BS.
    At least I actually posted FACTS.
    All you posted was your self indulgent pile of crap musings on what your opinions are.
    What I posted are the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT FIGURES.
    You do NOT get to say they're biased or non-factual just because you don't like what they say.
    The facts don't give a shit about what your loony ideology is.
    They just are what they are.

    You are a very clever user and spinner of things to sell your "it's bigger than a right vs. left situation" BS.
    BS you're trying to sell to the naive in order to try and spin them into believing that the Democrats are somehow equally as guilty as the Repubs of running the country into the ground.
    Nobody with a brain and any kind of awareness of what's happened over the last 20+ years believes that the Democrat's have done anywhere NEAR as much damage to the economy and the lives of the American people as the Repubs have.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    Fearthefall saidUnspun? From Rickrick? Forgive my skepticism...



    Maybe if you actually clicked on the links instead of relying on your prejudice, you'd be more well informed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:04 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSome evidence of this recovery (just from today):

    Jobs Picture Worsens With 131,000 Losses; 9.5% Rate
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/38590746

    Camden Closes Library System
    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/camden-closing-library-system-20100806-apx

    U.S. Employers Shed Jobs
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703309704575412990024153682.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories



    Seriously?

    Two links on a monthly jobs report and a link to a FOX NEWS (!) story on a library closing?

    That's your rebuttal attempt?

    FAIL
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:08 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    MeOhMy saidUNspun facts? hahahaha

    The recession is "over"? hahahaha

    Sorry, but, looking at economic issues from a Republican vs. Democrat perspective is idiocy. Stop calling it the "Bush Recession," that's lunacy. Bush made the economic problems much worse, yes. But Clinton's administration made it so that the economic crisis could happen. All the movers and shakers in his administration, who dismantled Glass-Steagle, who expanded derivatives, etc., were then brought into the Obama administration to "manage" their mess, and in effect, serve the same interests they have always served: the big banks.

    Unfortunately, that also means they are there to screw you.

    However, the economic crisis did not emerge in a vacuum. It's origins are far-reaching, tracing back to the emergence and influence of the central banking system (1694 in the UK, 1913 in the US), to the nature of the American empire following WWII (with its imperial economic apparatus of the World Bank, IMF and WTO), the neoliberal era born in the Reagan administration, and carried on by every subsequent administration (Republican and Democrat alike), all the way to Obama, who is not a saviour, who has not done anything good for the economy, who has simply delayed the inevitable collapse, in order to allow the banks to plunder the wealth of the nation before the final collapse.

    When the stock market crashed in 1929, the following years were referred to (at the time) as a recession. Two years following, in 1931, all the major media in the US, and politicians and economists alike, were saying that the US and the world were in a "recovery." 1933 was the worst year of the Great Depression, and it lasted until World War II.

    Calling this a "Bush Recession" is disingenuous. Referring to this as a Republican/Democratic issue is naive and only externalizes your own ignorance of the global political economy. This crisis is endemic, and should reveal the ineptitude and irrelevance of party politics, not strengthen the party system and collective thinking. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans on this issue, and ultimately, neither hold that much relevance. These are forces far beyond "party politics", and to continuously frame the issue as such is frankly, a bit tired and vapid.

    I would recommend educating yourself on political economy and history before claiming "UNSPUN FACTS" about economics. Because, they are hardly facts, and most definitely spun.

    The same economists who lied, saying there would be no recession, the economic fundamentals were 'fine', and there was nothing to worry about; the economists who were categorically wrong or misleading (either passively ignorant or actively lying and deceptive) about everything, are the same economists and institutions now claiming we are in "recovery." What is it about "authority" that makes people continually believe everything they are told, even if it is the opposite of logic and reality? Why do people think it is okay to believe the same economists who have been nothing but wrong in the past? Did they all of a sudden develop a brain or conscience? Did they all of a sudden realize the folly of their entire careers and ideologies? Did they suddenly realize that their giant fortunes amassed from helping the banks and corporations get much richer and more powerful were created on ill-gotten grounds? Do they feel bad about lying, and now are turned to tell the truth?

    Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England. Grow up.




    NO, you're not the queen of England.
    You're the Queen of BS and excuse-making for the gross incompetence of the Bush administration/s.
    I call the recession the Bush recession BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
    And that's what the history books will call it.
    To deny that is unbeleievably ignorant.

    Your statements that what I posted isn't unspun facts is such total and egregious BS.
    At least I actually posted FACTS.
    All you posted was your self indulgent pile of crap musings on what your opinions are.
    What I posted are the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT FIGURES.
    You do NOT get to say they're biased or non-factual just because you don't like what they say.
    The facts don't give a shit about what your loony ideology is.
    They just are what they are.

    You are a very clever user and spinner of things to sell your "it's bigger than a right vs. left situation" BS.
    BS you're trying to sell to the naive in order to try and spin them into believing that the Democrats are somehow equally as guilty as the Repubs of running the country into the ground.
    Nobody with a brain and any kind of awareness of what's happened over the last 20+ years believes that the Democrat's have done anywhere NEAR as much damage to the economy and the lives of the American people as the Repubs have.





    Haha

    and 2+2 = 5, right Winston?

    Well, enjoy your "unbiased" "facts", and when they slap you in the face in the next two years, I'm sure you'll believe whatever shit they sell you then.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:36 AM GMT
    rickrick91 saidNumber one - the 2007-2009 Bush recession is OVER.
    It ended in July 2009.
    Contrary to Republican claims that we're in the "middle of a recession".

    http://www.jobbait.com/a/recession.htm

    Number two - we've had four straight quarters of economic GROWTH.
    It's slow growth, but it's actually STRONGER growth than occured after the 1990-1991 Bush recession and after the Bush 2001 recession.

    http://www.mrswing.com/articles/U_S_Economic_Expansion_Stronger_Over_Last_Quarters.html

    We have a long road to travel to get out of the deep economic hole dug by the Bush administration, but the right-wing spin that we're still in a recession and that things have gotten worse since Obama was elected is a total pile of stinking right-wing BS.


    More BS. Did you see the job numbers today?? Very poor. No one is hiring and will not be hiring until the tax cuts are saved. This is a no brainer, EXTEND THE BUSH TAX CUTS OR WE ARE ALL SCREWED. We are very very much in a recession, the Obama Recession.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:38 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    mocktwinkie saidSome evidence of this recovery (just from today):

    Jobs Picture Worsens With 131,000 Losses; 9.5% Rate
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/38590746

    Camden Closes Library System
    http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/new_jersey/camden-closing-library-system-20100806-apx

    U.S. Employers Shed Jobs
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703309704575412990024153682.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories



    Seriously?

    Two links on a monthly jobs report and a link to a FOX NEWS (!) story on a library closing?

    That's your rebuttal attempt?

    FAIL


    Ah yes, I'm glad your brain has been programmed to see "fox news" even though it's from CNBC. lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:56 AM GMT
    MeOhMy said
    rickrick91 said
    MeOhMy saidUNspun facts? hahahaha

    The recession is "over"? hahahaha

    Sorry, but, looking at economic issues from a Republican vs. Democrat perspective is idiocy. Stop calling it the "Bush Recession," that's lunacy. Bush made the economic problems much worse, yes. But Clinton's administration made it so that the economic crisis could happen. All the movers and shakers in his administration, who dismantled Glass-Steagle, who expanded derivatives, etc., were then brought into the Obama administration to "manage" their mess, and in effect, serve the same interests they have always served: the big banks.

    Unfortunately, that also means they are there to screw you.

    However, the economic crisis did not emerge in a vacuum. It's origins are far-reaching, tracing back to the emergence and influence of the central banking system (1694 in the UK, 1913 in the US), to the nature of the American empire following WWII (with its imperial economic apparatus of the World Bank, IMF and WTO), the neoliberal era born in the Reagan administration, and carried on by every subsequent administration (Republican and Democrat alike), all the way to Obama, who is not a saviour, who has not done anything good for the economy, who has simply delayed the inevitable collapse, in order to allow the banks to plunder the wealth of the nation before the final collapse.

    When the stock market crashed in 1929, the following years were referred to (at the time) as a recession. Two years following, in 1931, all the major media in the US, and politicians and economists alike, were saying that the US and the world were in a "recovery." 1933 was the worst year of the Great Depression, and it lasted until World War II.

    Calling this a "Bush Recession" is disingenuous. Referring to this as a Republican/Democratic issue is naive and only externalizes your own ignorance of the global political economy. This crisis is endemic, and should reveal the ineptitude and irrelevance of party politics, not strengthen the party system and collective thinking. The Democrats are just as guilty as the Republicans on this issue, and ultimately, neither hold that much relevance. These are forces far beyond "party politics", and to continuously frame the issue as such is frankly, a bit tired and vapid.

    I would recommend educating yourself on political economy and history before claiming "UNSPUN FACTS" about economics. Because, they are hardly facts, and most definitely spun.

    The same economists who lied, saying there would be no recession, the economic fundamentals were 'fine', and there was nothing to worry about; the economists who were categorically wrong or misleading (either passively ignorant or actively lying and deceptive) about everything, are the same economists and institutions now claiming we are in "recovery." What is it about "authority" that makes people continually believe everything they are told, even if it is the opposite of logic and reality? Why do people think it is okay to believe the same economists who have been nothing but wrong in the past? Did they all of a sudden develop a brain or conscience? Did they all of a sudden realize the folly of their entire careers and ideologies? Did they suddenly realize that their giant fortunes amassed from helping the banks and corporations get much richer and more powerful were created on ill-gotten grounds? Do they feel bad about lying, and now are turned to tell the truth?

    Yeah, and I'm the Queen of England. Grow up.




    NO, you're not the queen of England.
    You're the Queen of BS and excuse-making for the gross incompetence of the Bush administration/s.
    I call the recession the Bush recession BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS.
    And that's what the history books will call it.
    To deny that is unbeleievably ignorant.

    Your statements that what I posted isn't unspun facts is such total and egregious BS.
    At least I actually posted FACTS.
    All you posted was your self indulgent pile of crap musings on what your opinions are.
    What I posted are the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT FIGURES.
    You do NOT get to say they're biased or non-factual just because you don't like what they say.
    The facts don't give a shit about what your loony ideology is.
    They just are what they are.

    You are a very clever user and spinner of things to sell your "it's bigger than a right vs. left situation" BS.
    BS you're trying to sell to the naive in order to try and spin them into believing that the Democrats are somehow equally as guilty as the Repubs of running the country into the ground.
    Nobody with a brain and any kind of awareness of what's happened over the last 20+ years believes that the Democrat's have done anywhere NEAR as much damage to the economy and the lives of the American people as the Repubs have.





    Haha

    and 2+2 = 5, right Winston?

    Well, enjoy your "unbiased" "facts", and when they slap you in the face in the next two years, I'm sure you'll believe whatever shit they sell you then.




    What a crock of shit.
    YOU are the one attempting to sell 2+2=5 - NOT me.
    YOU are the one trying to deny the facts.

    You're entitled to your own opinion.
    You're NOT entittled to your own FACTS.

    Just because the official government figures don't confirm your OPINION doesn't give you the right to dismiss them.

    Your suggestion that the figures are wrong and that we're still in a recession, is not backed up by ANY facts.
    And it's illegitimate.

    It would be no more legitimate for me to suggest that the govt. figures are wrong, and the recovery we're in is actually a very strong and robust recovery.
    That suggestion would not be backed up by any facts either.

    I don't get to rewite the FACTS - and neither do you.

    The one who's selling "shit" is you.
    And nobody with a brain would buy it.





  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 9:57 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    What a crock of shit.
    YOU are the one attempting to sell 2+2=5 - NOT me.
    YOU are the one trying to deny the facts.

    You're entitled to your own opinion.
    You're NOT entittled to your own FACTS.

    Just because the official government figures don't confirm your OPINION doesn't give you the right to dismiss them.

    Your suggestion that the figures are wrong and that we're still in a recession, is not backed up by ANY facts.
    And it's illegitimate.

    It would be no more legitimate for me to suggest that the govt. figures are wrong, and the recovery we're in is actually a very strong and robust recovery.
    That suggestion would not be backed up by any facts either.

    I don't get to rewite the FACTS - and neither do you.

    The one who's selling "shit" is you.
    And nobody with a brain would buy it.


    Official government figures? And we're supposed to blindly trust this administration? Hmm, they have no vested interest in these numbers, none whatsoever...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 11:58 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    I call the recession the Bush recession BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS. etc etc

    Your statements that what I posted isn't unspun facts is such total and egregious BS.

    You are a very clever user and spinner of things to sell your "it's bigger than a right vs. left situation" BS.


    In your own way you are as tiresome as Southbeach. It IS a much bigger issue than right and left: it is a GLOBAL issue. And there is no such thing as "unspun" facts. Everything, to a lesser or greater degree, is the product of an agenda. If you need that explaining just ask .
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:36 PM GMT
    Lostboy said
    rickrick91 said
    I call the recession the Bush recession BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT IS. etc etc

    Your statements that what I posted isn't unspun facts is such total and egregious BS.

    You are a very clever user and spinner of things to sell your "it's bigger than a right vs. left situation" BS.


    In your own way you are as tiresome as Southbeach. It IS a much bigger issue than right and left: it is a GLOBAL issue. And there is no such thing as "unspun" facts. Everything, to a lesser or greater degree, is the product of an agenda. If you need that explaining just ask .


    While I wouldn't be as harsh as MeOhMy or Lostboy, I do agree that the "facts" are being presented through a partisan lens, because that's how the media covers everything.

    While I, too, vote for the lesser of two evils in most instances, the primary problem with American politics (and, indeed, global politics) is the unfettered influence (control?) of government actors by corporate interests. The majority of what the media covers has a "look over there" quality to it, where every couple of days there's a new "scandal" that keeps the ball going back on forth on very minor surface issues, without ever allowing the discussion to go deeper.

    Look at healthcare reform. Not only was there not a discussion of whether or not healthcare should be profit-driven (it shouldn't) even the establishment of a single-payer system wasn't up for discussion.

    Now, we have a situation in which corporations are hoarding their profits - not because of Bush tax cuts or Obama being "anti-business - but because they can. There is no real pressure on them to hire Americans or put some of their largess toward actually helping the economy recover.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:48 PM GMT
    If were only losing slightly fewer jobs than a month ago then how does that mean the recession is over.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 07, 2010 1:50 PM GMT
    Interesting, when When Obama was first elected, and Obama was saying it was the worst recession ever, and Rush Limbaugh was saying "what recession?"

    This will go down (in my book) as a hugest head fake ever.

    Question: How do you convince 300 million lemmings that real estate will not go up forever?

    Answer: A scary Bailout that taxes the fuck out of them and makes them pay for it.

    Also, there are some elements of cycles that it does not matter who is in office to take credit for whatever may be going on at the time. Irrelevant!

    Why can't real estate go up forever? here is a clue:

    http://www.thefinancialhelpcenter.com/Economy-Pics/ConsumerDebt.jpg


  • nv7_

    Posts: 1453

    Aug 07, 2010 1:56 PM GMT
    failcity1.jpg
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Aug 07, 2010 3:00 PM GMT
    how can the nation recover economically when the prevailing wisdom is that survival of the corporation, or bank is paramount, even if that survival is dependant on laying off u.s. employees and moving operations overseas? or that the bank is too large to fail stays as a plank in economic policy?

    partisan bickering achieves nothing.

    neither party has changed the above polices, or made significant inroads in re-shaping those polices.

    neither party will, because there is only one party in america, the financial party, it rules. it functions behind the scenes, masquearading as the old 2 party system.

    i would VERY much like to hear the "conservative" financial policy suggestions, in detail. and i don't mean the no, no, no, no, no, talking points. i mean, an in depth, here is the goal, and here is how we get there policy.

    i would like to hear how we do that when we still maintain, that the corporation essentially is the same as a person, yet, is more important than people. " sorry about you all losing your jobs, but, we have to save the company and quarterly bonuses, so, we are moving to mexico, china, pakistan, haiti, india, africa, or wherever we can find the cheapest labor."

    banks, still are operating outside any real moral code, the only code being profit, and pesonal profit for the ownership class.

    while this isn't new, it is new at the level they are operating at. pensions have been devastated, private debt shifted to the public sector.

    question, how do you live in a country, where the mindset is preserve profit, and not people? as this scenario plays out, and it still is. as we continue to chase profit, regardless of how it effects both the people of the nation, and the overall health of the nation, how can this turn around> how will it play out in the end? a nation of people who are largely un-employed, or under-employed, who have no pensions, who have no government stipend that they were promised because they had paid into it their entire lives, ie. the entitlements. when you remove those pillars to basic day to day life, becaue it is expedient to remove those pillars, and doing so saves profitability, what happens to hundreds of thousands of people? if not millions?

    already you see what happens when we remove the extensions to un-employment, this is a harbinger of the future.

    things will get better when there are more jobs, we need to grow the small job sector...how? when you have a strong manufacturing base, those people go out and buy things or pay for sevices, in both cases creating more work, or jobs.
    without a strong manufacturing base, or something that employs the number of people it did, and with wages that aren't just survival rations but real living wages, that allow people to save, save for retirement, pay taxes, send their children to college, and yes, buy things and pay for services.. without this keystone, there can be no real recovery.
  • nv7_

    Posts: 1453

    Aug 07, 2010 3:50 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Fearthefall saidOfficial government figures? And we're supposed to blindly trust this administration? Hmm, they have no vested interest in these numbers, none whatsoever...


    Quite true. Very good observation!


    A better observation would be thinking you could trust any administration. icon_cool.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 07, 2010 3:58 PM GMT
    Let me say the "recession" per se did start during W's administration, but this is about far more than simply a label. It is "the" recession and I know the administration is working hard to improve the economy (concrete policies and legislation). Like any administration, this one spins things to look better.
    It can be productive (and also a bit deceptive). However this is a global thing, it just isn't a "US recession". Just look at how the events in Greece a couple of months ago drove our markets lower temporarily.

    It will take time.