Mosque at Ground Zero

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 07, 2010 9:57 PM GMT
    I'm really not wanting to start a flame war here, or promote hatred...I just would like to know how you all feel about the idea of a mosque at Ground Zero.

    I'd also like to know why you chose the answer you gave...and let's please try to be civil about this.

    I'm really not sure how I feel about this, and I think it will be good to read other perspectives on the subject. I've not read enough about it to know why they have considered this in the first place....so please educate me.

    Thanks
  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Aug 08, 2010 12:04 AM GMT
    I think its a good idea, it would be nice having every house of worship surrounding the site... Radicals wouldnt risk destroying their house of worship going after americans...They tend to take their religion very seriously[believe it or not] and to risk destroying it would keep them away from all the virgins in the after life....icon_idea.gif
  • commoncoll

    Posts: 1222

    Aug 08, 2010 12:19 AM GMT
    It is not AT Ground Zero. It is TWO blocks away on Park Place, and not even visible from Ground Zero. There are intervening buildings that prevent you from seeing it. It is also New York City. There aren't a lot of vacant places there. They are going to be using an old office building-there will be no golden minarets or domes shadowing the WTC.
    This issue goes to the depths of American democracy and the freedom of religion. The Muslim community has an equal Constituitonal right to build a mosque where they want, just like Christians and Jews and everyone one else. This is about standing up for a religious minority seeking religious tolerance rather than giving into the paranoia of Sarah Palin. It is only when she intervened that it became a national issue.
    Additionally, there is an older mosque there about 3 blocks away from Ground Zero.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 08, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    There is no good reason to fobid it. Any religious group (or non-religious group) - as long as they operate within the law - should be able to build their buildings anywhere they want.
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:23 AM GMT
    Delivis saidThere is no good reason to fobid it. Any religious group (or non-religious group) - as long as they operate within the law - should be able to build their buildings anywhere they want.


    I totally agree with your respond....well said mate! icon_smile.gif
  • puttputt

    Posts: 254

    Aug 08, 2010 12:23 AM GMT
    I like Mayor Bloomberg's response:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703545604575407673221908474.html?KEYWORDS=mosque+and+ground+and+zero
  • commoncoll

    Posts: 1222

    Aug 08, 2010 12:26 AM GMT
    Vlas saidI like Mayor Bloomberg's response:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703545604575407673221908474.html?KEYWORDS=mosque+and+ground+and+zero

    I agree.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:32 AM GMT
    The rules, pros and cons of building a house of worship of X denomination in around the vicinity of the WTC site apply the same there as they do in downtown Akron or West Hollywood.
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:34 AM GMT
    hmmm now, would there be all this trouble if I wanted to build a christian church outside the building bombed some 15 years ago in Oklahoma City?
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:39 AM GMT
    Before World Trade Center, It was Little Syria

    http://www.kabobfest.com/2010/08/the-ground-zero-mosque-has-a-place-in-nyc.html
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:44 AM GMT
    I'd probably feel the same way if they built a Christian church near the Oklahoma City Bombing. Or a Christian church near the Atlanta Olympics bombing. Or a Christian church near the that building in Austin that nut flew into----I wouldn't care. It's a free country, freedom of religion being one of those protected rights.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Aug 08, 2010 12:46 AM GMT
    I have mixed feelings about it. I want it to be a GOOD thing, but certain things surrounding the guy in charge of this is suspect. I hope he will disclose where the money is coming from to build it, and that he will do everything possible to ease the suspicions and tension of those against this mosque. The other part of me feels that there may have been a better place to put the mosque if, in fact, this is all in goodwill.
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:48 AM GMT
    There seems to be quite a few people angry about this.. I don't think the government should shut down religious houses, but I don't think that's what this is about, nor is race.. There have been moderate Muslims who have spoken out against this Mosque as well.

    I do think it is a bit inappropriate to build the thing there, because it stirs emotions in many. I'd feel the same if a Shinto Shrine or whatever were built near the Pearl Harbor attack.

    The problem is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He seems to not only have a bit of a shady past, especially with where the millions to build this thing is coming from. He won't acknowledge Hamas and such as terrorist organizations, which have made people wonder "Is this where he's getting the money from?"

    He's spoken favorably for Sharia law, as some other Imams in the United States. He believes the United States is also to blame for the attack.. This is completely wrong, as the attack had nothing to do with American policy or politics. Osama was from the second richest family there, but he is very twisted with these extreme Islamic views, and believes in spreading Sharia across the world. Also in this extreme belief, it is believed that if enough chaos and death is caused, it will bring about their version of the apocalypse, which would bring in their messiah.

    Aside from that, he had been going around blowing up people and things in other countries, and killing his own people. 9/11 which was warned about many times (though nobody listened), was not a surprise at all.

    The Mosque was actually planned before 9/11 happened.. Though given what has happened, it would be considerate to move it to a different location, since it is upsetting many. He talks of building bridges, and tolerance. Well how about this for an idea?

    Either move the Mosque to a different location, or make it an interfaith kind of thing since people of many faiths died that day. Nothing would show a greater example of peace and tolerance than to have people of all races, and faiths going there to pray, and take part in other activities in that center, remembering, and respecting those who died.

    I wasn't impressed with Bloomberg's speech, and I really don't think this thing will be built, as I can imagine there will be some construction men who will refuse to be apart in the construction of this thing.. I can also imagine the future of the Mosque if built, will have some problems.

  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Aug 08, 2010 12:51 AM GMT
    though i don't particularly care for any house of worship, i think it's important for the idea of freedom of religion to let this mosque be built.
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    Aug 08, 2010 12:58 AM GMT
    jgymnast733I think its a good idea, it would be nice having every house of worship surrounding the site... Radicals wouldnt risk destroying their house of worship going after americans...


    PFFFFFFFFTT! They've done it plenty, my friend.

    As for the topic, Fox News commentator Juan Williams put it best I think. He stated that he thinks it's a bad idea. The imam and the people involved with erecting this mosque are making a painful mistake, but the government and the people of New York have no right to tell them not to build on private property.

    Some say that the funds for the building project may be linked to organizations that support terrorism. Others tout that the imam refuses to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization and therefore is suspect regarding Islamic Extremism. These charges are irrelevant and inconclusive without further investigation. The problem, though, is that these people are building on privately owned property, and the government, the people, nobody has a right to demand further investigation before they build. Suppose they wanted to build a Muslim grocery store instead. Do you think anybody would care where the funds originated or what ideas the project leader supported? Probably not. Well in America it holds true that an entity is innocent until proven guilty.

    Returning to my original point, I do agree with Juan Williams that it is a bad idea for them to continue with the building project. However, the reason I think it's a bad idea is hardly related to its proximity to Ground Zero. (If you look at a map of where they propose to build the mosque in relation to Ground Zero, you might even be compelled to scratch your head and wonder what all the fuss is about.) The reason is that it has already proven to be divisive and has garnered unnecessary attention. The mosque will no doubt become a target for domestic terrorism and vandalism. Besides, they do Islam no favor by continuing this fight. They already have convinced so many people that Muslims are haughty and will stop at nothing to get what they want. It's a bad PR campaign and they should retract.
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Aug 08, 2010 1:00 AM GMT
    Freedom of religion is guaranteed in this country. It would be unconstitutional to prevent the mosque from being built.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 08, 2010 1:01 AM GMT
    IHG84 said
    The problem is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He seems to not only have a bit of a shady past, especially with where the millions to build this thing is coming from. He won't acknowledge Hamas and such as terrorist organizations, which have made people wonder "Is this where he's getting the money from?"

    He's spoken favorably for Sharia law, as some other Imams in the United States. He believes the United States is also to blame for the attack.. This is completely wrong, as the attack had nothing to do with American policy or politics. Osama was from the second richest family there, but he is very twisted with these extreme Islamic views, and believes in spreading Sharia across the world. Also in this extreme belief, it is believed that if enough chaos and death is caused, it will bring about their version of the apocalypse, which would bring in their messiah.


    He certainly has beliefs which are less than socially beneficial - to put it mildly. But I do not think this can be used as a reason to deny the building of the church. People are entitled to their beliefs, be they stupid, wrong, or harmful, and religions are no exception.

    I am sure many catholic churches teach and supprot abstinence only education which causes enormous harm. I am also sure many catholic churches are agaisnt condom use and for spreading their dogmas against contraception even in Africa where there is an AIDS epidemic. I'm also quite sure the list of extremely stupid and immoral beliefs espoused by churches could be quite long if I spent more time writing this.

    But if we are to prevent the building of a church for one group based on bad beliefs I dont see how we can prevent doing it for all of them.

    Thus I do not think stupid or immoral beliefs can be used to curb their freedoms to gather and talk about them in their own buildings.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:03 AM GMT
    conscienti1984 saidhmmm now, would there be all this trouble if I wanted to build a christian church outside the building bombed some 15 years ago in Oklahoma City?


    Sorry, but Tim McVeigh was no Christian. He even lied about attending church, and in his quotes.. There is no mention about Christianity at all. "Christian" nut bags usually get a bunch of weak minded people together, end the end killing their followers with some kind of poison or such, and then themselves.

    Aside from his horrible actions on that day, that were not Christian.. The way he lived his life wasn't very Christian either.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Aug 08, 2010 1:07 AM GMT
    It's actually up the block from Ground Zero. The only argument those opposed offer that holds a bit of water is that the existing building should be preserved because it has the ash and potentially the remains of victims. Though this is likely true, does that mean no building in the area can ever be torn down? That makes no sense to me. And I'm sorry it still feels fresh to those families, but I think the idea of the Center, which will be more than a Mosque but a cultural center is exactly what makes us the country to aspire to. If this center was built anywhere else in the world, we'd likely be the ones funding something like this. I think this is the best of what we represent. But, ultimately, I think this is a decision for New York City to make. They were the ones affected the most intimately. I lived in NYC for three years recently. I had a taste of what it means to be a New Yorker. And I like this idea.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:09 AM GMT
    Delivis said
    IHG84 said
    The problem is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. He seems to not only have a bit of a shady past, especially with where the millions to build this thing is coming from. He won't acknowledge Hamas and such as terrorist organizations, which have made people wonder "Is this where he's getting the money from?"

    He's spoken favorably for Sharia law, as some other Imams in the United States. He believes the United States is also to blame for the attack.. This is completely wrong, as the attack had nothing to do with American policy or politics. Osama was from the second richest family there, but he is very twisted with these extreme Islamic views, and believes in spreading Sharia across the world. Also in this extreme belief, it is believed that if enough chaos and death is caused, it will bring about their version of the apocalypse, which would bring in their messiah.


    He certainly has beliefs which are less than socially beneficial - to put it mildly. But I do not think this can be used as a reason to deny the building of the church. People are entitled to their beliefs, be they stupid, wrong, or harmful, and religions are no exception.

    I am sure many catholic churches teach and supprot abstinence only education which causes enormous harm. I am also sure many catholic churches are agaisnt condom use and for spreading their dogmas against contraception even in Africa where there is an AIDS epidemic. I'm also quite sure the list of extremely stupid and immoral beliefs espoused by churches could be quite long if I spent more time writing this.

    But if we are to prevent the building of a church for one group based on bad beliefs I dont see how we can prevent doing it for all of them.

    Thus I do not think stupid or immoral beliefs can be used to curb their freedoms to gather and talk about them in their own buildings.


    Oh I agree, and in no way am I calling for him or any other house of worship to be shut down. I'm just saying I can understand the anger of the people, who have learned about the things this man believes. Not only that, but again if the construction men refuse to build it, that's not going to be a surprise. The beliefs he seems to sympathize with, are the beliefs that have destroyed all of those lives that day. Also in the Islamic faith, it is custom (in the older days), to build a mosque in the area where you were victorious in battle. Again this is something people think about, being he seems quite sympathetic to the beliefs that killed many.

    I think its about the Imam, not the faith, and not the race. I was a bit surprised to learn there were moderate Muslims speaking out against this Mosque as well.

    He's got the right to say what he wishes, and worship however. Though people have the right to speak out against him.. It would be a bad thing indeed if the mosque has any violence put upon it, especially if there are innocent people inside. Though I wouldn't be surprised really.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:11 AM GMT
    ...and there were a lot of Muslims that died in the towers when the planes hit.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:13 AM GMT
    meninlove said ...and there were a lot of Muslims that died in the towers when the planes hit.


    Yep which is why an interfaith kind of thing, would be more fitting, and also truly show he's about building bridges, and being tolerant as he claims to be.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Aug 08, 2010 1:14 AM GMT
    meninlove said ...and there were a lot of Muslims that died in the towers when the planes hit.


    you guys need to stop that crazy talk. everyone knows the only people who mattered were white christians, white jews, and minority christians (in that order). all the muslims in the city simply were on vacation that day and deserve no peace of mind or inclusion in 9/11 discussions, particularly about the vitriol and islamophobia they encountered in the aftermath.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:18 AM GMT
    calibro said
    meninlove said ...and there were a lot of Muslims that died in the towers when the planes hit.


    you guys need to stop that crazy talk. everyone knows the only people who mattered were white christians, white jews, and minority christians (in that order). all the muslims in the city simply were on vacation that day and deserve no peace of mind or inclusion in 9/11 discussions, particularly about the vitriol and islamophobia they encountered in the aftermath.


    icon_rolleyes.gif

    Again this has nothing to do with race. If you actually ever saw the group of protesters against this thing.. You'd see people of all colors, and again there were some moderate Muslims who spoke out against this Mosque.. Its not the religion, its not the race, its the Imam... People really need to stop using that race card.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Aug 08, 2010 1:20 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidHaving lived right across the street from the WTC for years (and yes, even on that fateful day of 9/11), I have no issues with the mosque being located where they propose to locate it.

    However, had they wanted to locate it directly adjacent to the site (say on Vesey, Church, Liberty), I would have a problem as it would seem that they would be picking the site to make some kind of statement.


    Southbeach, we're not usually on the same side of an argument, but I would agree with you here.