How do we have relationships that work (leading to marriage)?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 07, 2010 10:31 PM GMT
    The silence is deafening on this topic. One thing that continues to never come up within gay activist circles is the shitty reality that most of us didn't have much luck with finding, keeping or being in relationships. We have much more hoop jumping to go through first of all, and less than 10% of the population to pick from, making a match even more difficult. What a lot of newly out guys don't seem to realize is that finding relationships in the gay world (for the most part - I know a lot of you are going to say 'it wasn't that way for me! - I get it. But you aren't the majority) takes a lot longer. Sometimes it takes 15-20 years to find the one guy that really clicks, and within six months it's over.

    I do believe that marriage is long overdue for us, but I also want to see the best possible scenario for all of us. Most of us didn't get to have 'training wheel dating' during adolescence like our straight peers did. Nor did we get romance movies, novels or anything other than porn and shame. Which leads us to not really sure about how to 1) FIND someone within this tiny group of people called gay men that there might be a mutual attraction besides both of you being gay; 2) FIGURE OUT what you're both looking for because more often than not, our relationships never get to be relationships because one guy is looking for one, the other guy isn't, and the one looking for something more ends up devastated; and 3) KEEP it going if in fact you find someone you like. We break up over things that are very 7th grade. That comes from lack of experience that most of us have. You can't just read about your friends relationships and think that once you find one you have all the answers. What most straight people go through, we go through 10-15 years later because it takes that much longer to find what we're looking for (if it ever happens at all). And yes, it's true that to some extent the stereotype that many gay men end up never finding anybody is true. It has nothing to do with who you are or what you look like, it has to do with a selection base that is too small, and too scattered for there to be enough perfect matches.

    So with all this, let's hear from those who have and haven't had any luck. Honestly. How do you think marriage is going to work for us if a lot of us haven't had much practice dating in the gay world? What tips do you have if you've been lucky to find someone?

    This isn't the start of an argument or a witty, snotty comment section. If you don't have anything nice to say, take it somewhere else.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 07, 2010 10:48 PM GMT
    Gay bars, gay events, gay churches, gay anything...all very few and far between, unless you live in a major city. Even then, the ratio of straight to gay events and bars is overwhelmingly outnumbered. Straight people in a small town of 50 thousand have more choices than gay men in a major city.

    Now that I think about it like that, you're right. Our choices are severely limited. Then add to that our diversity, which is just as diverse as straight culture, and we have thousands of people with different likes and dislikes...which narrows the playing field even more.

    So yeah it's possible to meet that one Mr. Right, but unless you're super lucky, it's not going to happen in your younger years.
  • KepaArg

    Posts: 1721

    Aug 07, 2010 11:09 PM GMT
    i have been with my current bf for 4 monthes. We met at a mutual friends party and have been together since. Even though gay marriage is legal heren in argentina im not ready to walk down that road and we are actually about to hit our first major hurdle. I´m heading to the middle east soon for a job, and won't see him in person until november.

    As with all relationships it boils down to communication and respect.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:31 AM GMT
    DuluthMN, we've talked about this regularly and to the point where we became a little embarrassed about it.

    Deafening silence? srsly?
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Aug 08, 2010 1:35 AM GMT
    Unlock your door, step outside, with clothes on, and go out where the gay guys are. The're not going to come knocking at your door. You have to go where they are so they can discover the wonderfull YOU.
  • hdurdinr

    Posts: 699

    Aug 08, 2010 1:44 AM GMT
    I was in a relationship for five years until my partner died last year. I remember when I first met him, how happy I was to not have to go anymore to the seedy gay bars on offer where I lived at the time. Navigating the gay drama that exists is one of the worst aspects for me - maybe that's why so many of us are attracted to our straight friends? We are told growing up that gay men are all promiscuous and can't ever be happy - and some people then proceed to obey that stereotype. Maybe in ten years time the gay teenagers will have plenty of role models to choose from and it won't even be an issue, but until then, we should be grateful for everyone we have in our lives, and as cheesy as it sounds - until you learn to love yourself and be happy on your own -only then will you truly be able to bring something to a relationship and lay down some very solid foundations.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 4:06 AM GMT
    I agree wholeheartedly with the OP
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 4:56 AM GMT
    I've been with my bf for 7yrs now. I think it's lasted as we both know how to compromise.
    A good friend of my mine explains it very well. 'Do what you need to do and ask for forgiveness after'. Obviously morals and your belief system should stop you from doing stupid things icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 5:12 AM GMT
    DuluthMN saidThe silence is deafening on this topic. One thing that continues to never come up within gay activist circles is the shitty reality that most of us didn't have much luck with finding, keeping or being in relationships. We have much more hoop jumping to go through first of all, and less than 10% of the population to pick from, making a match even more difficult. What a lot of newly out guys don't seem to realize is that finding relationships in the gay world (for the most part - I know a lot of you are going to say 'it wasn't that way for me! - I get it. But you aren't the majority) takes a lot longer. Sometimes it takes 15-20 years to find the one guy that really clicks, and within six months it's over.

    I do believe that marriage is long overdue for us, but I also want to see the best possible scenario for all of us. Most of us didn't get to have 'training wheel dating' during adolescence like our straight peers did. Nor did we get romance movies, novels or anything other than porn and shame. Which leads us to not really sure about how to 1) FIND someone within this tiny group of people called gay men that there might be a mutual attraction besides both of you being gay; 2) FIGURE OUT what you're both looking for because more often than not, our relationships never get to be relationships because one guy is looking for one, the other guy isn't, and the one looking for something more ends up devastated; and 3) KEEP it going if in fact you find someone you like. We break up over things that are very 7th grade. That comes from lack of experience that most of us have. You can't just read about your friends relationships and think that once you find one you have all the answers. What most straight people go through, we go through 10-15 years later because it takes that much longer to find what we're looking for (if it ever happens at all). And yes, it's true that to some extent the stereotype that many gay men end up never finding anybody is true. It has nothing to do with who you are or what you look like, it has to do with a selection base that is too small, and too scattered for there to be enough perfect matches.

    So with all this, let's hear from those who have and haven't had any luck. Honestly. How do you think marriage is going to work for us if a lot of us haven't had much practice dating in the gay world? What tips do you have if you've been lucky to find someone?

    This isn't the start of an argument or a witty, snotty comment section. If you don't have anything nice to say, take it somewhere else.



    Part of the equation is your outlook which I must say is pretty grim. Couples create their relationship daily in which ea person decides how he/she will show up that day. Communication is and will be the longevity of any good relationship.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 5:35 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidUnlock your door, step outside, with clothes on...


    you lost me there
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 5:53 AM GMT
    . . . Duluth, you can safely ignore the self-absorbed maunderings of meninlove . . .he/it/they is just one of the prices of being on RJ . . .

    . . . I would advise you to explore Personalism which posits ultimate reality and value in personhood . . . people (like the egregious and verbose and grandiloquent meninlove or the hateful and ugly jprichva) disappoint us so often, but the end isn't found in others . . .

    good luck

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    Aug 08, 2010 6:05 AM GMT
    Here is just a few things:

    1. Know what you want in a relationship--do you have any "deal-breakers" that you cannot tolerate?
    2. Learn how do deal with little idiosyncrasies he may have.
    3. Be open with your feelings constantly, but use tact.
    4. Take time to make sure you are the right fit for each other
    5. Tell you partner to be open about his feelings.
    6. Eye contact; physical contact; intimacy; sex.
    7. Divide up the household responsibilities--do not nag him if he does not do his fair share... talk to him in a rational controlled manner... but not when you are upset.
    8. Be romantic... sometimes letters are just as good as dinner at an expensive restaurant.
    9. Learn to accept each other's personality, interests, beliefs, etc.

    And last but not least...

    10. Learn to fight in a civil way! No ad hominems. No personal insults. No eccentric body language. No excessive voice-raising. No obscure facial expressions. Even if he does those things to you... don't do them back--it'll escalate the argument.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 6:16 AM GMT
    I feel the same as the OP. Still not had anything last past 1 week, and only like 2 of those.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 10:22 AM GMT
    hdurdinr said we should be grateful for everyone we have in our lives, and as cheesy as it sounds - until you learn to love yourself and be happy on your own -only then will you truly be able to bring something to a relationship and lay down some very solid foundations.
    Im with this dude, never a wiser few words said says he recent single. icon_confused.gif
  • inuman

    Posts: 733

    Aug 08, 2010 10:39 AM GMT
    DuluthMN saidThe silence is deafening on this topic. One thing that continues to never come up within gay activist circles is the shitty reality that most of us didn't have much luck with finding, keeping or being in relationships. We have much more hoop jumping to go through first of all, and less than 10% of the population to pick from, making a match even more difficult. What a lot of newly out guys don't seem to realize is that finding relationships in the gay world (for the most part - I know a lot of you are going to say 'it wasn't that way for me! - I get it. But you aren't the majority) takes a lot longer. Sometimes it takes 15-20 years to find the one guy that really clicks, and within six months it's over.

    I do believe that marriage is long overdue for us, but I also want to see the best possible scenario for all of us. Most of us didn't get to have 'training wheel dating' during adolescence like our straight peers did. Nor did we get romance movies, novels or anything other than porn and shame. Which leads us to not really sure about how to 1) FIND someone within this tiny group of people called gay men that there might be a mutual attraction besides both of you being gay; 2) FIGURE OUT what you're both looking for because more often than not, our relationships never get to be relationships because one guy is looking for one, the other guy isn't, and the one looking for something more ends up devastated; and 3) KEEP it going if in fact you find someone you like. We break up over things that are very 7th grade. That comes from lack of experience that most of us have. You can't just read about your friends relationships and think that once you find one you have all the answers. What most straight people go through, we go through 10-15 years later because it takes that much longer to find what we're looking for (if it ever happens at all). And yes, it's true that to some extent the stereotype that many gay men end up never finding anybody is true. It has nothing to do with who you are or what you look like, it has to do with a selection base that is too small, and too scattered for there to be enough perfect matches.

    So with all this, let's hear from those who have and haven't had any luck. Honestly. How do you think marriage is going to work for us if a lot of us haven't had much practice dating in the gay world? What tips do you have if you've been lucky to find someone?

    This isn't the start of an argument or a witty, snotty comment section. If you don't have anything nice to say, take it somewhere else.




    Okay I'm going to be the first to say this but it has to be said cause its just annoying as hell.

    You seriously need to focus on your own life rather then worry about if your going to find a man. Wanting a man and being in a serious committed relationship is one thing, actually being in one is a whole different ball game. So maybe you should stop wanting and panning over something, live and love life, be a positive model for the up and coming out gays out there. God knows we need those more now then ever. Don't show them the "I need a relationship badly" side of you, show them that you're a happy person without one and are okay with being single. Cause not all gays are meant to be in relationships you know.


    Also maybe its all where you are raised, I was raised in a small community with high family values and that being gay was just a part of life as well. Even had positive gay role models as being an out gay man wasn't a bad thing but another side to life is all. We didn't NEED to label everyone because of what gender we wanted to have sex/relationships with.

    So what I'm trying to say is stop whining about not getting that guy or failing to get the guy, instead enjoy life rather then wanting to create one with another guy, it'll happen and if it doesn't it wasn't meant to be, you have to accept the fact that you might be one of the guys who's not meant to be in one.

    Gay or straight its something everyone needs to realize and accept cause it shouldn't matter if your gay or straight but you could be a single person until you die.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 1:11 PM GMT
    There are some grains of truth in what the OP has to say. But the negative attitude with which he says them is what makes the biggest impression on anyone who reads his post.
    If you believe your life is necessarily going to be a vale of tears and loneliness just because you're gay, it will be. If you are convinced that the only connections you can make with other gay men will be shallow, exploitative, and fleeting, they will be.
    If the OP wants to find and keep a healthy relationship he should start by looking within himself to find validation.
  • frankyzhang

    Posts: 40

    Aug 08, 2010 1:47 PM GMT
    well, i think the situation is so hard is because the pressure from people around us, the straight world. seems that it's hard for gay couple to show their relationships in public, and our relationships get less bliss.that's why many of us just get too desperate to remain our unblessed relationship. another things is that we dont have that many choices, do we?
    so that's the two main reason which make it hard for us. however, how can we change the homosexual image in people's mind? firstly, we need to be serious to our relationships, be honest to our partners and be pround of them, then we gain the respect. if even we dont have the faith in our relationships, how could we ask for respect from other people?
    and always have a hope, where there is a hope, there is a way~~~
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 2:03 PM GMT
    In some ways I agree and others disagree. Although I can appreciate where you are coming from, its kind of sweet and caring.

    First
    Don't forget that 50% of straight marriages also end in divorce.
    Who knows how many of the ones that have not yet gone through the divorce courts are held together by money, guilt, cheating spouses, and all kinds of other things that are, as you put it, 7th grader.

    Second
    I don't think being gay has limited anything, including developmental stages of seeking relationships. Quite frankly, the opposite--I think it has spoiled me. In a way, I think it has been more sophisticated, as opposed to sheltered.

    Knowing for many years that marriage was not available, I have changed my belief systems to:

    *You can get fellowship and brotherhood from living with another couple.
    *You can have sex with someone simply to satisfy your sexual desire and not a thing more than that.
    *You can love someone without having sex with them.
    *Sex and Love are independent, While they can sometimes overlap, they never co-exist perfectly.

    So, I really don't know that there is ever going to be any one man that can be all things to me; although I would gladly marry the mother fucker.

    So, my problem is to retrain myself to believe that I can get everything that I am able to get outside of a marriage in one person if ever I were to be ambitious enough to want to marry.

    I have a sinking feeling that if there are those out there that somehow think that the capability, possibility, or potential for marriage is going to somehow make people get along, they are wrong. Just look at the straight community for those statistics, and according to you...they have had optimal conditions. Straight people swing, have open marriages, cheat, do cocaine, party, and steal each other's mates.

    The two relationships that I have had failed because the guys I was with were not getting everything that they wanted. One liked to control my every move, it ended badly. The other felt trapped, but also dumped me because I didn't like his friends. (they were strung out hairdressers)- no offence to sober hairdressers.

    Wasn't it Albert Einstein who said that the problem with marriage is that it seeks to make something permanent that shouldn't ever be.

    None of this above of course takes into account some of the more legal, contractual, financial, benefits, advantages to having the choice and no American citizen (no matter how fucked up) should be denied the right to fuck it up just like the straight people have.

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    Aug 08, 2010 2:25 PM GMT
    xuaerb saidKnowing for many years that marriage was not available, I have changed my belief systems to:

    *You can get fellowship and brotherhood from living with another couple.
    *You can have sex with someone simply to satisfy your sexual desire and not a thing more than that.
    *You can love someone without having sex with them.
    *Sex and Love are independent, While they can sometimes overlap, they never co-exist perfectly.

    So, I really don't know that there is ever going to be any one man that can be all things to me; although I would gladly marry the mother fucker.
    Absolutely agree, 100%.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 08, 2010 11:56 PM GMT
    It's a mindset. Are you considering the other person's underlying values? Do they match yours? Are you ready for a long-term relationship and all its potential sacrifices? Or are you just in love with the concept of a relationship on a purely superficial level.

    Statistics are great when you are looking at the macro picture. But in the end, a relationship is about two persons. You just need to find the one for you. Dwell in the stats and theory all you want, but that's not going to help or get you anywhere. Look inside. Figure out if you are ready first. And then move forward and act according to your values!
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Aug 09, 2010 12:40 AM GMT
    I think that most of us want a boyfriend/relationship/marriage, but we're either too lazy or we're too afraid of rejection (or failure) to do what it takes to make it happen.

    If you want it, you have to take a chance. As simple as it sounds, you have to make contact with other men, whether it's by the internet or in person. And, you have to test drive a lot of guys before you find one that's acceptable, much less a real catch.

    Oh, but then I'd have to get off the couch, change out of my sweats, and clean up my house (in case we end up back here). It's a lot easier to just lie here and imagine how nice it would be to have someone with whom to share my life.

    The internet has actually made it a LOT more difficult to meet someone. At least when we used to go out regularly to the bars and the clubs and the sex clubs, it was way easier to meet someone. These days, it seems to be that most of us just stay at home.

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    Aug 09, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidI think that most of us want a boyfriend/relationship/marriage, but we're either too lazy or we're too afraid of rejection (or failure) to do what it takes to make it happen.
    If you want it, you have to take a chance. As simple as it sounds, you have to make contact with other men, whether it's by the internet or in person. And, you have to test drive a lot of guys before you find one that's acceptable, much less a real catch.
    Oh, but then I'd have to get off the couch, change out of my sweats, and clean up my house (in case we end up back here). It's a lot easier to just lie here and imagine how nice it would be to have someone with whom to share my life.
    The internet has actually made it a LOT more difficult to meet someone. At least when we used to go out regularly to the bars and the clubs and the sex clubs, it was way easier to meet someone. These days, it seems to be that most of us just stay at home.


    Webster666, you are saying that an intelligent guy like you won't invest the effort to occasionally jump-start initiatives for possible fairy tale relationships? Is imagining how nice it could be really preferable to the adventure and journey towards reaching a coupled happiness? Are possible previous relationship scars so much stronger than the hope for a happy relationship now and in the future?

    If we lived in the same city I would pull you by the ear to try to understand you better. Webster666, you're too special not to wake up and enjoy every day with someone you love who loves you.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 09, 2010 2:00 AM GMT
    This thread is certainly depressing.

    While there are many slutty guys out there, I am not one of them. I know I will find true love, and I can't wait to find it.

    Homosexuals might not have the same dating experiences as straight counterparts, but that does not mean that we don't learn what love is until 10-15 years after straights either.