A morning jolt: Schools await board's vote on evolution

  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Feb 18, 2008 8:04 AM GMT
    Little works as effectively to wake me up in the morning as the picture and caption that signify this article's story:

    Schools await board's vote on evolution
    BY MARC CAPUTO
    Florida's standards for the public-school teaching of evolution -- which have not been updated since 1996 -- could change dramatically Tuesday.
    Read more at the Miami Herald

    Seldom have I felt so strongly to yell "F*cktard!" at a fellow human as I have with this "former educator."


    ***
    Addendum: Carl Hiaasen, author and columnist, discusses the debate in "Our [Florida's] reputation for flakiness is at stake"
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    Feb 18, 2008 11:19 AM GMT
    He's old. Like several billions of years old. He's probably REALLY cousins with those oranges.

    But I'll join you with that. He's a F*cktard, alright.

    It's interesting to note that Creation is not anymore mentioned...

    *sigh*

    It's like dragging a reluctant child to bathe. Get in the water already!

    Hooray for Florida joining the modern world if it passes though. Hehe
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Feb 18, 2008 11:21 AM GMT
    It gets pretty bad when people lose all sense to get in good with that really mean guy with the beard who lives in the sky
    This is one of the reasons we're in the third world class when it comes to teaching science in this country

  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Feb 18, 2008 1:03 PM GMT
    PS: My anger is with *authoritarian* Christianity, not Christianity at large.

    Creationism is rarely mentioned due to its stigma of being a creation myth (in this case, the creation myth of the Abrahamic religious movements).

    *Authoritarian* Christian marketers in the US spun Creationism around, adopted some cheap dime-research-store frills, and redubbed it Intelligent Design. ID is Creationism with a veneer of scientific theory. It's all dressed up and, I hope, with nowhere to go.

    My issues with ID is not so much that *authoritarian* religious proponents want to render their offspring without basic understandings of universe they inhabit; rather, I take issue with the insistence on ramming this "science" down all of our throats, regardless of our theistic stances.

    /rant on
    If individuals want to go ahead and be, pardon my language, idiots, feel free and be merry.

    DON'T, however, try to force the rest of us into this idiocy parade...and don't prohibit your offspring from choosing to join the non-idiocy bandwagon.

    The unborn child who would become the world's most spectacular physician / medical research if abortion was illegal would, unfortunately, be too inured by *authoritarian* Christianity's march toward mediocrity and subservience to do much of anything.
    /rant off
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 18, 2008 1:33 PM GMT
    I'm so glad there are other states that have issues like this... but in Kansas, things were changed for the better.

    What do you think Caslon?
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    Feb 18, 2008 2:17 PM GMT
    Huh? me? what? ...oh Kansas....yes, Kansas will always hold a special place in my heart because it did once throw evolution out of the curriculum. It's hard to get one's good reputation back after it has been squandered so badly. Hell, I still won't shop at a Food Lion!
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    Feb 18, 2008 3:40 PM GMT
    I know this isn't the point of the article and what the Board will do is a good thing (although probably much to the chagrin of the religious and the Creationists).

    However, I want to add that teaching creationism is teaching junk. It's that simple. It belongs in the churches (not even there really, but I guess some kind of bone for the religious is necessary), not in the schools. There are enough problems with education today without arming children with useless garbage. They need to learn basic and intermediate mathematics and science in preparation for university work. I don't see how any cirriculum that includes Creationism will do that.
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    Feb 18, 2008 3:45 PM GMT
    There was a great onion article about Kansas outlawing evolution all together. I loved it.

    In other news, Creationism should not be taught in churches either. That would just add to the problem. If people are going to claim a religion is the most important thing in their life, they shouldn't use a half-assed modern American attitude that is basically irrelevant to an actual understanding of what Jewish people thought or believed. Lazy religious people annoy the heck out of me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2008 3:45 PM GMT
    Ugh,m why do i only post on religion and politics?! I'm a freak.

    Non-religious/political topic: I looooooove kittens!
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    Feb 18, 2008 4:01 PM GMT
    sickothesame saidUgh,m why do i only post on religion and politics?! I'm a freak.

    Non-religious/political topic: I looooooove kittens!


    Kittens are cute.

    But back to the topic at hand icon_smile.gif

    /rant on
    The article harps on this: "The new standards need to call evolution a ''theory,'' so that evolution does not appear to be the fact that mainstream science says it is."

    I actually think this is a good thing. A lot of people (in particular biologists) have this misconception that scientists go out proving things. In actuality, nothing is ever proven. It is only disproven. And the remaining explanations have a probability of being true or "Fact." It's useful to think of research in this way -- because a lot of times, what people publish as true, isn't the whole truth.

    Also I hate when religious people say they resent the concept that we came from gorillas. Technically we didn't come from gorillas. We share a common ancestor with gorillas. Better example is modern day domestic dogs share a common ancestor with modern wolves. Not so difficult to see that, huh. But two hairy primates sharing a common ancestor? That's just crazy-talk!
    /rant off
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2008 4:02 PM GMT
    Did this happen in The Simpsons? I'm sure it did, i think the TV is starting have a little bit too much control on the american way of lifeicon_lol.gif

    Next thing you know there will only be 24hrs to save the planet and people will be lining up like morons to sing in front of 3 people who act like they control the world.............





    .......oh waiticon_twisted.gif



    Hopefully soon i will develop the ability to control time and space and speak japanese

    Yatdaaaaa
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 18, 2008 4:05 PM GMT
    Caslon saidHuh? me? what? ...oh Kansas....yes, Kansas will always hold a special place in my heart because it did once throw evolution out of the curriculum. It's hard to get one's good reputation back after it has been squandered so badly. Hell, I still won't shop at a Food Lion!


    I appreciate your concern about Kansas' reputation being "squandered", but this thread is about action in your state. You didn't even discuss that.....

    P.S. Whats a Food Lion?
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 18, 2008 4:07 PM GMT
    sickothesame saidThere was a great onion article about Kansas outlawing evolution all together. I loved it.


    The right wingers were voted out and the State Board of Education (with sane people) reinstated evolution.
    Thats old news.
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    Feb 18, 2008 5:34 PM GMT
    I have not heard that the Virginia Board of Education is dropping or even considering dropping evolution from the curriculum.

    Food Lion is a grocery store chain. Back in the '80s (I think), some news program did an undercover news report with a hidden camera in which they exposed Food Lion for taking meat that was past its expiration date, washing it with bleach to lower its bacteria count, and then putting it out back for sale.

    I just cant get that out of my head when ever I see a Food Lion.
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    Feb 18, 2008 5:39 PM GMT
    It's not going to go anywhere. It's just another way for the religious right to try and get news coverage. There was already a case in Pennsylvania similar to this case and on December 20, 2005 federal judge John E. Jones III ruled that the Dover School Board had violated the Constitution when they set their policy on teaching intelligent design, and stated that "In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents." Judges, especially Federal judges, tend to make decisions based on past cases; this one is not going to be any different.
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    Feb 18, 2008 7:24 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said

    The right wingers were voted out and the State Board of Education (with sane people) reinstated evolution.
    Thats old news.


    whoa someone's a little snarky. The onion is a satire paper. The article was outlawing the actual process of evolution. Not teaching evolution. See. It was an allusion to a comical article. I wasn't bringing up "old news." Trust me, I walked my students through the entire ID debate in their intro science class last semester. I'm a pro on court dates, plaintiffs and defendants.
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    Feb 18, 2008 7:54 PM GMT
    icon_confused.gif you would think with all the fossils in Florida, they would not be so afraid of a little evolution.
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    Feb 18, 2008 8:25 PM GMT
    I am so glad I got out of public school education.
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    Feb 18, 2008 8:52 PM GMT
    ActiveAndFit saidicon_confused.gif you would think with all the fossils in Florida, they would not be so afraid of a little evolution.



    Who are you calling a fossil? I'm going to get my pal the trilobite to come kick your ass.
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    Feb 18, 2008 9:01 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    ActiveAndFit : icon_confused.gif you would think with all the fossils in Florida, they would not be so afraid of a little evolution. ...

    Who are you calling a fossil? I'm going to get my pal the trilobite to come kick your ass.

    lol, tell the trilobite I did not mean to offend him
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Feb 18, 2008 9:42 PM GMT
    sickothesame said[quote][cite]HndsmKansan said[/cite]

    The right wingers were voted out and the State Board of Education (with sane people) reinstated evolution.
    Thats old news.


    whoa someone's a little snarky. I'm a pro on court dates, plaintiffs and defendants. [/quote]



    Snarky... I'll have to remember that one for future reference. As far as being a pro on court dates, etc.
    I can't say I haven't had some exposure since I have a law degree... But to be fair, I've never heard of that newspaper, so perhaps I was being "snarky", but I'd appreciate a definition of that term.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2008 9:46 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidso perhaps I was being "snarky", but I'd appreciate a definition of that term.
    Here ya go .. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snarky
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2008 9:46 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said perhaps I was being "snarky", but I'd appreciate a definition of that term.


    Well, good question...
    Snarky is something like being snide, but includes the knowledge that what you're being snide about is sort of beneath your notice to begin with. Disagreeing with someone's opinion on a post may be snide, for example, but adding on a correction of their spelling would be snarky as well.
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Feb 18, 2008 9:53 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie: Were you a teacher? I was for 10 years. It got to the point where it hurt my brain. I try to talk college students out of going into teaching, I really believe it's the worst career field in America that requires a college education.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 19, 2008 9:47 AM GMT
    CaslonI have not heard that the Virginia Board of Education is dropping or even considering dropping evolution from the curriculum.


    You might want to check this out. hehe

    http://www.venganza.org/

    The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

    And yes, it's serious, LOL. Most of the 'adherents' are actually agnostic or atheistic though.

    From Wiki:The Flying Spaghetti Monster (also known as the Spaghedeity) is the deity of a parody religion called The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its system of beliefs, "Pastafarianism". The religion was founded in 2005 by Bobby Henderson to protest the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution.

    In an open letter sent to the education board, Henderson professes belief in a supernatural creator called the Flying Spaghetti Monster which resembles spaghetti and meatballs. He furthermore calls for the "Pastafarian" theory of creation to be taught in science classrooms.

    Due to its recent popularity and media exposure, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is often used by atheists, agnostics (known by Pastafarians as "spagnostics"), and others as a modern version of Russell's teapot and the Invisible Pink Unicorn.


    Say 'Praise his noodliness' at a chat room, and chances are someone will respond with 'ramen brother'.

    LOL

    Basically, the idea was, if the state wanted to teach creation. Why not teach the Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster's creation version too:

    him2.jpg

    The earlier version by Bertrand Russell, The Celestial Teapot:

    Bertrand RussellIf I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.