For the Bible tells me so.

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    Feb 18, 2008 4:20 PM GMT
    I did some digging around and am not sure if anyone's already posted on this movie, if they did, sorry. Otherwise, I just watched "For the Bible tells me so." and really liked it. I don't know much about any background to it, but a friend told me about it and we watched it, thought it made some real good points.

    What I liked is it takes a fairly balanced look instead of just saying "church bad." Dunno.

    Thought I'd see if anyone else has seen it, knows more about it, maybe caught something I could have missed.

    There's a trailer on youtube,


    And the website is www.forthebibletellsmeso.org
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    Feb 18, 2008 4:47 PM GMT
    My Ouija Board tells me the bible is bunk and I believe it.
  • jarhead5536

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    Feb 18, 2008 4:56 PM GMT
    novembermike,

    truer words were never spoken. It's ironic that I find myself defending the church in many circles, unfortunately in most cases against itself, since fundie Christianity has so royally screwed up Christ's message.

    There is good and truth there, you just have to get through all the Old Testament crap that fundies take such great stock in...
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:05 PM GMT
    OK...Some gasoline for the fire....The Bible is a BOOK, a man-made product.
    Over time, this BOOK has been assembled and selectively re-written, interpreted, translated and has had chapters added and deleted according to the whims of the person/group paying $$$$$ for the process.
    This BOOK is a tool of intimidation, used to control the ignorant masses. I place no faith in and take no comfort from such an obvious tool. Those that blindly follow this BOOK, are the same ones that over history have been responsible for the Crusades, the Inquisition, the destruction of many indiginous cultures, the introduction of slavery, the KKK, bigotry, homophobia, etc. How and why so many are willing to follow an ideology with such a history of intolerance, death and destruction constantly amazes me.icon_eek.gif
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:15 PM GMT
    Sporty_g said(snip) ... How and why so many are willing to follow an ideology with such a history of intolerance, death and destruction constantly amazes me.icon_eek.gif


    Hehe... You sound like an ideologist yourself, and isn't any ideology worth to be questioned? icon_twisted.gif *g*
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:15 PM GMT
    Sporty_g saidHow and why so many are willing to follow an ideology with such a history of intolerance, death and destruction constantly amazes me.


    I normally wouldn't say this beyond the confines of my four walls, but believers are weak-minded. It is all fiction.

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:20 PM GMT
    dfrw said[quote][cite]

    I normally wouldn't say this beyond the confines of my four walls, but believers are weak-minded and unable to accept evidence at face value.



    Depends on how you define believers. I think that anything that's completely black & white thinking is harmful. We all need to be careful in not doing the same thing on the opposite spectrum.

    As a UU, I've heard it say that we're not the people of the book, but the people of the library. There's truth everywhere, and nobody has an exclusive claim to it.
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:20 PM GMT
    Sporty_g saidThis BOOK is a tool of intimidation, used to control the ignorant masses.


    It seems to me that we should not be blaming the tool, rather the mis-users of it. What about the numerous amounts of people who have found solace and love through the bible? Just because some people have misused it to engender hatred doesn't mean it can not also be a tool of peace.

    Can't a gun be used to both defend a family or destroy an enemy?
  • jarhead5536

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:21 PM GMT
    dfrw said[quote][cite]Sporty_g said[/cite]How and why so many are willing to follow an ideology with such a history of intolerance, death and destruction constantly amazes me.


    I normally wouldn't say this beyond the confines of my four walls, but believers are weak-minded and unable to accept evidence at face value.

    [/quote]

    Oh, really?

    Such nice blanket statements you atheists make. My faith (I am a devout Episcopalian) is hardly weak-minded idol worship. Some things about the Anglican Church in America:

    Virgin birth - nope
    Divine orgin of Christ - didn't happen
    Miracles - please
    Resurrection of dead Jesus - no way

    We believe that Christ was a unique person unlike any man before or since, touched by the divine to bring a truly revolutionary message of tolerance, social justice and plea for the end of oppression and tyranny in the world. What's so weak-minded about that?
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:22 PM GMT
    matt45710 said
    Depends on how you define believers. I think that anything that's completely black & white thinking is harmful. We all need to be careful in not doing the same thing on the opposite spectrum.

    As a UU, I've heard it say that we're not the people of the book, but the people of the library. There's truth everywhere, and nobody has an exclusive claim to it.


    No, it doesn't matter how we define believers. If you or anyone else can provide any evidence for the existence of a god, then I'd like to know about it.
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:25 PM GMT
    "Such nice blanket statements you atheists make. My faith (I am a devout Episcopalian) is hardly weak-minded idol worship."

    Yes, it is blanket and it is my opinion.

    As I said to matt, jarhead, if you can provide any evidence for the existence of a god, then I'd like to know about it.

    Before we get into it, it is not up to me or any others to prove that a god does not exist, it is up to proponents of gods to prove their existence.

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:28 PM GMT
    dfrw said[quote][cite]matt45710 said[/cite]
    If you or anyone else can provide any evidence for the existence of a god, then I'd like to know about it.


    What does the term "god" mean?

    And I don't ask that question, because English is not my mother tongue. ;-)
  • jarhead5536

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
    I don't feel the need to prove anything. That's the definition of FAITH.

    To me, God is the source of all life and everything that is good in the world. God is not some ill-defined being set apart from this existence. God is the life force in all of us. God is the impetus that drives us to do good intead of evil. God is love in its every manifestation, and love is the reason that anything good or selfless happens to any of us...

    My intellect has no problem whatsoever with this definition of God. Faith and reason are completely compatible to me...
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:38 PM GMT
    Before this all degenerates into some ugly flamewar based on "hurt feelings" or a perceived attack on personal beliefs, I am only going at HISTORICAL FACTS, not "HISTERICAL, RELIGIOUS FANATACISM" of every religious sect. Obviously, there are "flavors" of all religions, some ARE positive. I am not attacking anyone for their "beliefs", just stating my observations of "Christianity" from an Historical perspective. Please refute my statements with HISTORICAL FACTS, not idaological, dogmatic responses.
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:40 PM GMT
    The religious "Book's" were written by "Man" and were Manipulated to suit the Time's and updated again and again by "Man".

    The origin of the so called Stone's of the ten Commandment's were carved by somebody also? They mean a lot and are special i guess as a guidance to a respectable life!

    We are all responsible for our own deed's and that is a fact of life and "what goes around comes around" like the weather and the cycle of life that i believe and have had p;roof of!

    l do believe in GOD Whatever it is and The prophet's were sent to us as a guidance of which Jesus whom l Love dearly was a healer and a mystic also. So judging how "MAN" is and can be in life l only believe in what see and hear and touch!
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:44 PM GMT
    Sporty_g saidBefore this all degenerates into some ugly flamewar based on "hurt feelings" or a perceived attack on personal beliefs, I am only going at HISTORICAL FACTS, not "HISTERICAL, RELIGIOUS FANATACISM" of every religious sect. Obviously, there are "flavors" of all religions, some ARE positive. I am not attacking anyone for their "beliefs", just stating my observations of "Christianity" from an Historical perspective. Please refute my statements with HISTORICAL FACTS, not idaological, dogmatic responses.


    You mean you wanted question the legitimacy of the Bible but not of faith in general? Have I got that right? icon_question.gificon_smile.gif
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:46 PM GMT
    jarhead5536 saidI don't feel the need to prove anything. That's the definition of FAITH.

    To me, God is the source of all life and everything that is good in the world. God is not some ill-defined being set apart from this existence. God is the life force in all of us. God is the impetus that drives us to do good intead of evil. God is love in its every manifestation, and love is the reason that anything good or selfless happens to any of us...

    My intellect has no problem whatsoever with this definition of God. Faith and reason are completely compatible to me...


    I'm okay with that. It doesn't change my opinion in any way, but I certainly believe that you are entitled to it.

    The line is crossed the moment believers try to codify faith in law, government policies, or anything substantively public.
  • jarhead5536

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:47 PM GMT
    Sporty_g saidBefore this all degenerates into some ugly flamewar based on "hurt feelings" or a perceived attack on personal beliefs, I am only going at HISTORICAL FACTS, not "HISTERICAL, RELIGIOUS FANATACISM" of every religious sect. Obviously, there are "flavors" of all religions, some ARE positive. I am not attacking anyone for their "beliefs", just stating my observations of "Christianity" from an Historical perspective. Please refute my statements with HISTORICAL FACTS, not idaological, dogmatic responses.


    Wow, more blanket statements, with lots of caps, no less. Read my above posts about what I, and plenty of other thinking Christians, actually believe. There is more in the Bible that is allegory/mythology and plain fearmongering than anything else, and I don't think you'll find a true follower of Jesus' teachings that won't agree with that.

    Stop letting James Dobson and Pat Robertson define my faith, please?
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:51 PM GMT
    dfrw said[quote][cite]

    No, it doesn't matter how we define believers. If you or anyone else can provide any evidence for the existence of a god, then I'd like to know about it.


    While I don't want to drag this string any further from the original posters intention, I do think I just need to say that the term God is just a metaphor for an idea that can't be broken down any further. Just like I can't "prove" that someone is beautiful or a guy is hot, it's just a good way for some people to talk about it. I think that having to "prove" that God exists is asking the wrong question, and plays into the hands of the fundamentalists. They seem to think that everything is black & white on this and they are right. If you play that game, it's just like Roger Clemens and his former trainer bickering back and forth with each other in front of congress. Regardless if someone is right and someone is wrong, it doesn't produce anything good.
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:53 PM GMT
    I think it is very good to have a discussion.

    For whatever reason, there seems to be the position that questioning religious beliefs is forbidden.

    Why?

    We are expected to prove any myriad of beliefs and statements with facts, such as the statement that the Earth revolves around the Sun, a statement that most hybrid automobile engines get better gas mileage than most regular combustion engines, mathematical assertions, statements attributed to others, and the list goes on. I don't think religious beliefs should be held to an excepted standard.

    (It was my intention to use the word 'excepted' and not 'accepted'.)
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    Feb 18, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
    jarhead,

    i'm just wondering if you were raised with religion? if ever you were to adopt a child, or have a surrogate mother, would you choose to raise that child with your religious beliefs?

    my parents, though neither are practicing in their religions, raised us with knowledge of a bunch of religion. and had we felt a connection with one of them would have been supportive of our decisions to do so. that is unless we would ever become intolerant towards any others.


    so i guess i'm asking generally is whether kids should be brought up with a parent' faith, or should they be taught multiple faiths and then allowed to decide for themselves when odler and more understanding of the meanings behind the religion?

    now atheists out there, don't chime in saying religion is wrong. that has nothing to do with this question. because the same question could be put to politics or anything else for that matter.
  • joggerva

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    Feb 18, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
    Back on topic... icon_biggrin.gif

    I thought it was a great film and highly recommend it to anyone who's been spiritually damaged at the hands of Christians. The personal stories were very moving, and a lot of the theological discussion was original and thought-provoking.

    I did not like the animated short in the middle of the film. It was too simplistic and made Christians seem too uniform in beliefs. On the whole though, it was really good.

    However, I don't see it as an effective tool to talk to fundamentalists. Equality Virginia sponsored the viewing I saw and had a panel discussion afterwards. One lady said something along the lines of "Why didn't the film include my viewpoint of Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin?" This viewpoint was prominently featured in one family, so obviously anyone going into this film with their mind made up one way or the other is going to come out feeling the same.
  • jarhead5536

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    Feb 18, 2008 7:01 PM GMT
    dfrw,

    I suppose for me right question would be: how on Earth did a subsect of Judaism, founded with the express intent of the spread of something so simple as unconditional love for all become so thoroughly corrupted into a source of so much evil in the world?
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    Feb 18, 2008 7:03 PM GMT
    dfrw saidWhat is the right question Matt?


    First, I'd agree with you that no one should be codifying their experiences of religion into laws. That shuts out too many people.

    As for the right question, I'd say it more of "How does the way you interpret all of the stuff that you don't have absolutes for affect the way you live?" Anyone can be an asshole or a blessing to humankind no matter how you make sense of it in your own mind. It's how you play that out in life that makes the difference.

    So, getting back to the initial posting, I think that we're pretty clear that there are a bunch of nutjobs that think they have all the answers sent straight to them about the way everyone else should live. I think we can see that that doesn't work out too well. I don't have all the experiences and understandings that you (or anyone else) has, so all I can do is try to be understanding and not do something that is going to give you the impression that I think you are a load of crap.

    I think we'd all get along better if we just all didn't judge each other so much.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Feb 18, 2008 7:04 PM GMT
    jms84,

    I will certainly bring up my children in my faith, and most certainly NOT in the faith of my parents, which is of the God-fearing fundie Southern Baptist variety. That crap scarred me for life, and I will not be a part of perpetuating that kind of hate into another generation...