Has anyone stayed in a closed relationship knowing the other person cheated (cheats) multiple times?

  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Aug 13, 2010 9:57 PM GMT
    ...am in an extended hookup phase with a guy and have no plans to go official as we're busy and like being young and slutty atm..

    .. but friend sent me a dan savage article about monogamy being "unnatural." similar article also mentions nothing will ever be 50/50 (which i agree with) so don't expect perfection, but be grateful if you are generally happy, even if you'll always have that feeling where cheating may take place..

    i look fwd to having a closed relationship down the line (not now), and am realizing that most of the happy closed monogamous relationships are between nice lads who generally don't have the problem of being hit on by other single gays, so it's comfy for them.

    just wondering if there are others who experienced cheating more than once but stayed with the closed relationship because "you just have to take everything with a grain of salt" and "nothing will be 50/50 ever," "grass isn't always greener on the other side," etc, etc, and still remain generally happy despite it all...

    or is this dan savage crap all self-confirmation that being a doormat is ok assuming he's wearing rubber soles to be kind instead of cleats/heels?
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    Aug 13, 2010 10:11 PM GMT
    The research Dan sites isn't as simple as "monogamy is unnatural". We, as a species, are not biologically made for monogamy, generally speaking. We physiologically exist somewhere between fuck-everything bonobos and have-a-nice-heram-but-everyone-still-cheats gorillas. However, in the range of behaviors we have monogamy does exist.

    The point Dan and the research makes is that our society's expectations that every be monogamous are totally unrealistic. How you behave as an individual is going to be somewhere between your individual needs and role in society. Some people are perfectly comfortable being monogamous. For other people, and most people the research says, monogamy is not ideal.

    The Myth of Monogamy is a great book on the science written for lay readers)

    But yes, millions of couples deal with cheating. Some of them just put blinders on and never discuss it. Others set specific parameters on what sort of cheating is acceptable. Others are just fucking miserable together.

    Your relationships are going to be different from other people's relationships. And, despite fairy tale happily-ever-after and marriage vow bull shit, relationships are dynamic things. Your relationship could be happily monogamous for years before you start to drift. The important thing is to communicate and be open about what you are actually feeling and what you actually need. That way, when your needs to change you can address the issue with minimal hurt.
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    Aug 13, 2010 10:16 PM GMT
    Most men cheat on each other sexually... It's impossible to stop them I'm sure. It was the most common thing to witness and overhear no matter what gay bar I was in. It is also widely acceptable so it seems. And the relationships that appear to be monogamous and successful are really two cats scratching the hell out of each other behind closed doors. I fail to believe there is such a thing as a successful gay relationship unless the couple is trying REAL hard to prove these things incorrect to everyone. When I hear someone mention they are in a relationship I have a hard time in taking it seriously.
  • solak

    Posts: 493

    Aug 13, 2010 10:28 PM GMT
    Jerred39 saidAnd the relationships that appear to be monogamous and successful are really two cats scratching the hell out of each other behind closed doors. I fail to believe there is such a thing as a successful gay relationship unless the couple is trying REAL hard to prove these things incorrect to everyone.


    the idealist in me still thinks it possible but the more i see i generally agree, most "happy" monogs i see aren't usually the type single gays would hit on..

    thanks for the book recco mz.. reviews seem interesting

    am reading the single's thread to get the other angle
  • KepaArg

    Posts: 1721

    Aug 13, 2010 10:33 PM GMT
    Jerred39 saidMost men cheat on each other sexually... It's impossible to stop them I'm sure. It was the most common thing to witness and overhear no matter what gay bar I was in. It is also widely acceptable so it seems. And the relationships that appear to be monogamous and successful are really two cats scratching the hell out of each other behind closed doors. I fail to believe there is such a thing as a successful gay relationship unless the couple is trying REAL hard to prove these things incorrect to everyone. When I hear someone mention they are in a relationship I have a hard time in taking it seriously.


    Haha, your a funny guy full of information considering you have not been in a relationship yourself.

    Anyway, all people, gay, straight, bi, and trans all have the ability to cheat. Get over it...not only men cheat, women spread their legs and cheat too.

    Gay relationships aren't inferior to heterosexual relationships. I know guys who have been together over 20 years, I'm sure it hasn't all roses, but I doubt that can be said about straight people's relationship as well.

    Myself unlike you have been in relationships and this may come as shock to you, but neither me or the guy I dated cheated! GASP!

    Oh and those guys I mentioned who have been together some 20 odd years, recently got married! icon_biggrin.gif

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    Aug 13, 2010 10:39 PM GMT
    KepaArg said
    Jerred39 saidMost men cheat on each other sexually... It's impossible to stop them I'm sure. It was the most common thing to witness and overhear no matter what gay bar I was in. It is also widely acceptable so it seems. And the relationships that appear to be monogamous and successful are really two cats scratching the hell out of each other behind closed doors. I fail to believe there is such a thing as a successful gay relationship unless the couple is trying REAL hard to prove these things incorrect to everyone. When I hear someone mention they are in a relationship I have a hard time in taking it seriously.


    Haha, your a funny guy full of information considering you have not been in a relationship yourself.

    Anyway, all people, gay, straight, bi, and trans all have the ability to cheat. Get over it...not only men cheat, women spread their legs and cheat too.

    Gay relationships aren't inferior to heterosexual relationships. I know guys who have been together over 20 years, I'm sure it hasn't all roses, but I doubt that can be said about straight people's relationship as well.

    Myself unlike you have been in relationships and this may come as shock to you, but neither me or the guy I dated cheated! GASP!

    Oh and those guys I mentioned who have been together some 20 odd years, recently got married! icon_biggrin.gif



    I knew someone would come on with the same old argument "straight people cheat too". Sorry, but it is not nearly practiced to the extent that it is in the gay community. As for your second argument, I don't have to be in a relationship in order to know the reasons I do not care to have one... That reason being my first point in check. My third point was how gay men will go to any length to PROVE others wrong such as you are describing to me. Why are you so upset with me if what I have written held no truth?
  • KepaArg

    Posts: 1721

    Aug 13, 2010 10:59 PM GMT
    Jerred39 said
    KepaArg said
    Jerred39 saidMost men cheat on each other sexually... It's impossible to stop them I'm sure. It was the most common thing to witness and overhear no matter what gay bar I was in. It is also widely acceptable so it seems. And the relationships that appear to be monogamous and successful are really two cats scratching the hell out of each other behind closed doors. I fail to believe there is such a thing as a successful gay relationship unless the couple is trying REAL hard to prove these things incorrect to everyone. When I hear someone mention they are in a relationship I have a hard time in taking it seriously.


    Haha, your a funny guy full of information considering you have not been in a relationship yourself.

    Anyway, all people, gay, straight, bi, and trans all have the ability to cheat. Get over it...not only men cheat, women spread their legs and cheat too.

    Gay relationships aren't inferior to heterosexual relationships. I know guys who have been together over 20 years, I'm sure it hasn't all roses, but I doubt that can be said about straight people's relationship as well.

    Myself unlike you have been in relationships and this may come as shock to you, but neither me or the guy I dated cheated! GASP!

    Oh and those guys I mentioned who have been together some 20 odd years, recently got married! icon_biggrin.gif



    I knew someone would come on with the same old argument "straight people cheat too". Sorry, but it is not nearly practiced to the extent that it is in the gay community. As for your second argument, I don't have to be in a relationship in order to know the reasons I do not care to have one... That reason being my first point in check. My third point was how gay men will go to any length to PROVE others wrong such as you are describing to me. Why are you so upset with me if what I have written held no truth?


    I'm not upset by any means. But, your judgement of gay relationships (relationships in general) have no merit since you have no experience at all!

    Secondly, you have no basis to say that straight people don't cheat as much. It's not a tired argument- it's a fact!

    There is nothing to prove, some relationships work, others don't and you move on. As shocking as this may come it's possible that two men can be together and not have boy toys on the side. Some relationships just work that way!

    No what you written came off as a self-loathing, bitter, old queen!

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    Aug 13, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    You tell me you are not upset but, you go on to call me a bitter queen? I don't see bathhouses, public restrooms, cruising parking lots for straight sex going on... I ONLY see it in the gay world. And AGAIN I do not need to be in a relationship to KNOW AS A FACT I do not want one. You come off to me as someone that is young and naive... I once was. But you are not going to convince me the opposite of what I have witnessed and experienced with regards to the gay community, sex, and half ass attempts to convert me into a relationship.
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    Aug 13, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    Jerred39 saidI knew someone would come on with the same old argument "straight people cheat too". Sorry, but it is not nearly practiced to the extent that it is in the gay community. As for your second argument, I don't have to be in a relationship in order to know the reasons I do not care to have one... That reason being my first point in check. My third point was how gay men will go to any length to PROVE others wrong such as you are describing to me. Why are you so upset with me if what I have written held no truth?


    erm... really?

    Please take a look at the book I recommended above. Now, one could trot out the old argument that men are inclined to cheat and women are inclined towards monogamy. But there is a growing body of research that says women are just as likely to cheat and have just as many biological imperatives to cheat. Take a look at The Other Side of Desire or Sex at Dawn (there is another book called The Red Queen whose research is pretty outdated regarding female sexuality but still points towards the same broader conclusion).

    If you want to take a look at the biology of sexual behavior between hetero and homo animals take a look at Biological Exuberence and see that making big conclusions about sexual behavior of homos and hets isn't well grounded.

    What ever reasons you chose to not seek a relationship, great. But you are really quite wrong about gay relationships.
  • KepaArg

    Posts: 1721

    Aug 13, 2010 11:19 PM GMT
    Jerred39 saidYou tell me you are not upset but, you go on to call me a bitter queen? I don't see bathhouses, public restrooms, cruising parking lots for straight sex going on... I ONLY see it in the gay world. And AGAIN I do not need to be in a relationship to KNOW AS A FACT I do not want one. You come off to me as someone that is young and naive... I once was. But you are not going to convince me the opposite of what I have witnessed and experienced with regards to the gay community, sex, and half ass attempts to convert me into a relationship.


    Never been to a bathhouse, don't cruise for sex in parking lots or bathrooms.

    Swingers clubs- I believe is geared towards straights. Wife swapping - straights. Don't straights cruise each other, isn't that the point of clubs? I do believe prostitution and escorts is a lucrative business - due to the straight and possibly married.

    I called you a bitter queen, because that's how you come off.

    Why are you even here? Go make friends with resentful, bitter houswives - they might be more on your level

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    Aug 13, 2010 11:19 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Jerred39 saidI knew someone would come on with the same old argument "straight people cheat too". Sorry, but it is not nearly practiced to the extent that it is in the gay community. As for your second argument, I don't have to be in a relationship in order to know the reasons I do not care to have one... That reason being my first point in check. My third point was how gay men will go to any length to PROVE others wrong such as you are describing to me. Why are you so upset with me if what I have written held no truth?


    erm... really?

    Please take a look at the book I recommended above. Now, one could trot out the old argument that men are inclined to cheat and women are inclined towards monogamy. But there is a growing body of research that says women are just as likely to cheat and have just as many biological imperatives to cheat. Take a look at The Other Side of Desire or Sex at Dawn (there is another book called The Red Queen whose research is pretty outdated regarding female sexuality but still points towards the same broader conclusion).

    If you want to take a look at the biology of sexual behavior between hetero and homo animals take a look at Biological Exuberence and see that making big conclusions about sexual behavior of homos and hets isn't well grounded.

    What ever reasons you chose to not seek a relationship, great. But you are really quite wrong about gay relationships.


    The only thing those books could be taking into account is low gay populated cities... The real test comes in highly populated cities. Again, I have my own premise and do not need anymore skewed statistics.
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    Aug 13, 2010 11:30 PM GMT
    Mind you, I watched one of the most popular gay bars in the world get shut down because money was the key factor in this lifestyle... I also witnessed a world famous gay restaurant get shut down as well. The most successful marriages were always based upon money and in my next opinion subjects like Prop 8 are the evil deeds behind them.
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    Aug 14, 2010 5:41 AM GMT
    Jerred, when I read your posts here they all seem like talking points straight out of Exodus International literature. What's your point? Are you even gay, or would you rather be straight and live the dream? I did it for many years, and it's not all it's cracked up to be. The straight world is no paradise. Same "hell on earth" as the gay world (and a lot less fabulous! :lolicon_smile.gif To address a few specific points:

    My wife started cheating on me, even though we swore to "forsake all others." She was a fervent church-goer, too! I upheld my promise until the marriage was finally over. Me being the male, shouldn't I have started cheating first?

    Having kids? Well, we were unable to conceive naturally. So should we have not gotten married to begin with? Should only people that have the proven capability to conceive be able to get married? What about hetero couples that don't want kids? My aunt and uncle are a good example... Should their 30+ year marriage be annulled?

    I see myself in you (except there were no online forums when I was in your shoes), 20 years ago. I gobbled up all the arguments against being gay like a Thanksgiving turkey. Suppressing what is essentially part of my nature only hurt 4 people very close to me (and 3 dogs.) The one cool thing about the gay world that I have come to appreciate is that in itself it's so diverse. There are couples with kids, queens, leatherdaddies, you name it. You can be anything in it, and people will still tolerate you for being yourself. Try that in the conformist hetero world. It didn't work for me, and some of that world's members would have rather seen me dead when I finally started being myself.

    All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. In the end it will not make you any happier.
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    Aug 14, 2010 5:46 AM GMT
    Andreas73 saidJerred, when I read your posts here they all seem like talking points straight out of Exodus International literature. What's your point? Are you even gay, or would you rather be straight and live the dream? I did it for many years, and it's not all it's cracked up to be. The straight world is no paradise. Same "hell on earth" as the gay world (and a lot less fabulous! :lolicon_smile.gif To address a few specific points:

    My wife started cheating on me, even though we swore to "forsake all others." She was a fervent church-goer, too! I upheld my promise until the marriage was finally over. Me being the male, shouldn't I have started cheating first?

    Having kids? Well, we were unable to conceive naturally. So should we have not gotten married to begin with? Should only people that have the proven capability to conceive be able to get married? What about hetero couples that don't want kids? My aunt and uncle are a good example... Should their 30+ year marriage be annulled?

    I see myself in you (except there were no online forums when I was in your shoes), 20 years ago. I gobbled up all the arguments against being gay like a Thanksgiving turkey. Suppressing what is essentially part of my nature only hurt 4 people very close to me (and 3 dogs.) The one cool thing about the gay world that I have come to appreciate is that in itself it's so diverse. There are couples with kids, queens, leatherdaddies, you name it. You can be anything in it, and people will still tolerate you for being yourself. Try that in the conformist hetero world. It didn't work for me, and some of that world's members would have rather seen me dead when I finally started being myself.

    All I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. In the end it will not make you any happier.


    It is the attraction to child offspring that worries me most.. I find the plot artificial because the gay culture only seeks to be the opposite sex however, they have NEVER nor will they be EVER be able to live up to that ordeal.
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    Aug 14, 2010 5:49 AM GMT
    We as humans are capable of being faithful to one another. If certain animals can do it and stay forever bound to their mate til death do them part then we as humans should have no problem doing it.

    It's clearly an individual thing, not a sexual preference thing. Some people can be satisfied having one person in their life with who they give their all to and genuinely expect the same and then you have some who don't know a good thing when they have it and so clearly aren't satisfied til they are banging everything that moves because in short they are just selfish. All cheaters are just sexually selfish and there's never a good enough reason to do it. People who cheat are careless, lack trust, self respect and respect for others and will never know happiness for as cheaters they are bound to make the same mistakes again (once a cheater always a cheater) and if nothing else are bound to have it done to them for everything comes full circle.

    I've never been been in a relationship but I do know what to expect from one. if I ever had the thought to cheat one my partner I would just man up and end the relationship out respect form myself and my partner and yes I can say that because I know me well enough to know what I expect from myself.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:08 AM GMT
    Guy101 saidWe as humans are capable of being faithful to one another. If certain animals can do it and stay forever bound to their mate til death do them part then we as humans should have no problem doing it.

    It's clearly an individual thing, not a sexual preference thing. Some people can be satisfied having one person in their life with who they give their all to and genuinely expect the same and then you have some who don't know a good thing when they have it and so clearly aren't satisfied til they are banging everything that moves because in short they are just selfish. All cheaters are just sexually selfish and there's never a good enough reason to do it. People who cheat are careless, lack trust, self respect and respect for others and will never know happiness for as cheaters they are bound to make the same mistakes again (once a cheater always a cheater) and if nothing else are bound to have it done to them for everything comes full circle.

    I've never been been in a relationship but I do know what to expect from one. if I ever had the thought to cheat one my partner I would just man up and end the relationship out respect form myself and my partner and yes I can say that because I know me well enough to know what I expect from myself.


    Since when are male whales bound to any weight of same attraction... YOU are in a dreamworld.. Sad but True.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:12 AM GMT
    I'm not living in a dream world. Why would expecting someone to have the same relationship values as me be considered part of a dream world?

    YOU are just jaded. Sad AND true.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:13 AM GMT
    Jerred39 said
    It is the attraction to child offspring that worries me most.. I find the plot artificial because the gay culture only seeks to be the opposite sex however, they have NEVER nor will they be EVER be able to live up to that ordeal.


    I think you just like to hear yourself talk, as you didn't really answer any of my questions.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:25 AM GMT
    Guy101 saidI'm not living in a dream world. Why would expecting someone to have the same relationship values as me be considered part of a dream world?

    YOU are just jaded. Sad AND true.


    I am just willing to cut the fish out at sea when it is time to admit it was a whale of a lie.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:26 AM GMT
    Andreas73 said
    Jerred39 said
    It is the attraction to child offspring that worries me most.. I find the plot artificial because the gay culture only seeks to be the opposite sex however, they have NEVER nor will they be EVER be able to live up to that ordeal.


    I think you just like to hear yourself talk, as you didn't really answer any of my questions.


    Oh that must be it... I love to masturbate in the mirror like you probably do.icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:28 AM GMT
    You are just willing to be single forever because you are jaded and someone somewhere did quite the number on you with which you have yet to recover from.

    It never ceases to amaze me how quickly negative others can be because things didn't work out for them and so they share delight in spreading bad vibes.

    You need some sunshine in your life. Get rid of those dark clouds.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:31 AM GMT
    Guy101 saidYou are just willing to be single forever because you are jaded and someone somewhere did quite the number on you with which you have yet to recover from.


    Next you will be telling me because the guy was black or in a relationship with himself like most hypocrites do, I icon_biggrin.gifON'T want one.,, period. Can't you get that through your head by now?icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:39 AM GMT
    WOW! You really had a number done one you, huh?

    I'm not gonna play any word games with you because clearly you are in a league of your own and I don't mean that as a compliment.

    Those who think negatively meet a negative end. It's that simple and it's that real. Have fun being single. Kudos to you I guess. Somewhere out there you've done someone a huge favor.
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    Aug 14, 2010 9:37 AM GMT
    I've been in a semi-open relationship (open but only play together) and knew my bf was cheating on me the entire time.
    The truth kinda came out during a 7-person orgy, which involved one of our mutual friends who let it slip he was banging my bf daily while I was at work.
    I just said "who gives a fuck?" and kept playing with the hottie I'd chosen out of the 7 people. icon_lol.gif