Heart Failure

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2010 2:37 PM GMT
    Ok I have a serious-ish question.

    I never really liked creatine, but my partner got a big free tub with some protein shake and I tried it for a week for the first time in years.

    From Sunday through to Tuesday, I felt myself/saw myself getting SERIOUSLY bloated - big, puffer moon face, squidgy wrists/fingers, swollen feet ...

    And my chest feels ...uncomfortable?

    Yesterday, when maxing it out on the cross trainer, my heart rate was going to over 190 - whereas it usually levels at 170-175ish (this is when I deliberately go hell for leather to get the endorphine rush).

    Finally, scariest part is, I put on A STONE in three days. I absolutely swear. A STONE! That's fourteen fucking pounds!

    Needless to ditched the creatine, and have been losing weight, little by little, the past fews days.

    But I'm still fairly bloated and my chest still feels heartburnyish.

    Now I start googling heart failure and how edema can be the lungs filling with water and shit ... and how heart failure is permanent.

    If anmyone can convince me I'm just a hypochondriac, i'd be ever so grateful. Naturally, I'll see the GP regardless ...

    Ta.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:09 PM GMT
    Hey there.....from personal experience I've tried Creatine and have had headaches. My understanding is that you need plenty of water when taking this ingredient but why tempt fate if it's giving headaches eh?

    Also...you may want to check any other ingredients that came with the package...some of which may do more harm than good.

    Lately, I've taken L-Glutamine (considered the most abundant amino acid in th human body) and is known to protect muscle tissues as well as helping to support the immune system. I take 3-5 grams per day.

    I also take L-Arginine and L-Ornithine before my workouts and have seen amazing results thereafter. I take 2-3 grams before my workouts.

    Just keep in mind to drink plenty of water throughout the day.

    Hope this helps and if you feel any worse...please see a physician icon_biggrin.gif

    Cheers!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2010 6:40 PM GMT
    My protein powder has a small amount of creatine in it. On days I use it (only before workouts), I drink AT LEAST a gallon of water. That stuff is some serious shit if you're not hydrated.
  • OilCheck

    Posts: 16

    Aug 14, 2010 6:57 PM GMT
    Creatine Kinase supplements cause your muscles to retain water, which could account for both the bloating and the weight gain.

    Congestive heart failure would present with shortness of breath due to fluid accumulation in your lungs (pumonary edema, left-sided heart failure), and eventually in your legs (right-sided failure). Absent some viral infection attacking your hear muscle (parvovirus b-19, for one) it would not come on so acutely. In fact, it usually takes several years.

    What does your chest feel like? Being a guy you are far more likely to have a 'classic' heart attack: a squeezing sensation over your left chest, with pain radiating down the arm (angina). If you're young (under 50), otherwise in-shape, don't smoke, don't do cocaine or amphetamines, don't drink excessively, don't have diabetes, high blood pressure, a heart attack would be very low on my index of suspicion. However if you're concerned, go to clinic and have it checked out.
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    Aug 14, 2010 7:29 PM GMT
    Nah, can't imagine he's having issues you related, he's in great shape from what I can see.

    What brand is it? Is it from a reputable company? I was free.

    I used to get a very upset stomach from the stuff so I stopped taking it. I understand you have to drink a ton of water when you take it or it can cause problems with your kidneys.

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_4814929_problems-with-creatine.html
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    Aug 14, 2010 7:37 PM GMT
    Brit_Bloke saidOk I have a serious-ish question.

    I never really liked creatine, but my partner got a big free tub with some protein shake and I tried it for a week for the first time in years.

    From Sunday through to Tuesday, I felt myself/saw myself getting SERIOUSLY bloated - big, puffer moon face, squidgy wrists/fingers, swollen feet ...

    And my chest feels ...uncomfortable?

    Yesterday, when maxing it out on the cross trainer, my heart rate was going to over 190 - whereas it usually levels at 170-175ish (this is when I deliberately go hell for leather to get the endorphine rush).

    Finally, scariest part is, I put on A STONE in three days. I absolutely swear. A STONE! That's fourteen fucking pounds!

    Needless to ditched the creatine, and have been losing weight, little by little, the past fews days.

    But I'm still fairly bloated and my chest still feels heartburnyish.

    Now I start googling heart failure and how edema can be the lungs filling with water and shit ... and how heart failure is permanent.

    If anmyone can convince me I'm just a hypochondriac, i'd be ever so grateful. Naturally, I'll see the GP regardless ...

    Ta.


    Hey what's up bro! Sorry for the bad experience with creatine. The other posters are absolutely right when they say you MUST drink a large volume of water if you are going to use creatine, but that's because it can cause serious damage to your kidneys.

    Like you said, heart failure is a permanent condition and can only be artificially reversed with medication. Unfortunately, I cannot accurately comment on whether or not you are developing any cardiovascular pathology, but if you had heart failure YOU'D DEFINITELY KNOW IT!

    Essentially with that disease is the filling pressure of your ventricles would be extremely high and your cardiac output/stroke volume (i.e. the amout of force your heart can use to pump out a certain blood volume to systemic tissues) would fall drastically due to your heart being remodeled to due neural/hormonal input and (i.e. norepinephrine and angiotensin II). It takes a while for your heart to be pathologically remodeled. Overall this would essentially make even walking short distances very difficult. A disease of this magnitude takes longer than a few days to fully manifest.

    Here's a systematic way to help you assess (spelling? icon_sad.gif) your symptoms:

    "OLDCARTS"
    ...Then when you see a doc you can report all these things to him if you still have concerns.

    O = Onset...So, when did your symptoms begin?
    L = Location...location of your pain/symptoms? does it radiate?
    D = Duration...how long it lasts

    C = Character...How would you describe your pain? Burning? Tingling? Throbbing? etc...
    A = Aggrevates...What causes your symptoms to manifest? Are they getting better or worse...etc?
    R = Relieving factors...what makes them go away? Do you get relief?
    T = Timing...When do your symptoms present?
    S = Severity...On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being mild...10 being equivalent to paint during childbirth) where do your symptoms fall?

    Other questions to ask yourself (if you already have not):
    Have you had your blood pressure taken since you felt the chest pain? Have you seen your doc?
    Have you kept record of your dietary habits since, right before you took the creatine (i'm not saying they are bad by the way...it would just help your doc rule out possible causes of the heartburn)?
    Any history of cardiovascular/kidney issues?
    How have your workouts been since you discontinued using the creatine? etc...

    I hope you feel better and I hope I did not waste your time! icon_smile.gif



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2010 7:56 PM GMT
    Hey,

    Thanks all for taking the time to respond - very much appreciated!

    Oilcheck: you worried me a teensy bit, as I'm afraid I do smoke (yeah, I know) and I do the occassional cycle of ECA - and ephedrine is, essentially, an amphetamine, right? Been about a month since I had any though.

    I don't have "shortness" of breath, exactly ... more an unpleasant tingling in my chest. It could be because I hit my chest hard twice this week though (sorry, I know that makes me sound like a right wanker, I'm just trying to eliminate all possibilities). No arm pain. And the bloating is mainly in my face/torso/ankles - I'm getting indentations from lying on my stomach and from my socks around my ankles.

    Orthojock: so ur saying I'd feel REALLY bad if I had heart failure as opposed to a bit out of sorts?

    Sdsgman: brand is a very expensive one - can't remember the name off hand, but I buy cheap protein powder, whilst my other half spends a fortune on the stuff with glossy ads and lists and lists of stuff about BCCAs and shit ... as the creatine is a taster sample of one of their products, I assume it's good/quality shit.

    Had a workout earlier and ended it with 30 mins cross trainer, again my heart rate reaching 180-190 ... is that normal?

    As for the weight gain ... still not going anywhere ... I should be fourteen stone max with a decent amount of muscle ... anything under thirteen stone and I'm underweight (lage frame/big shoulders) ...

    But I'm FIFTEEN fucking stone right now. Well, nearly. That said, I lost about quarter of a stone during my workout, seriously. I'm like Oprah but going through her transformations within a matter of hours icon_rolleyes.gif

    Hoping I'll level out by Monday and if not I'll go see my GP. Earlier this week I was even considering dropping into A&E but so glad I didn't as I think this could well be paranoia.

    Thanks again all!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2010 7:57 PM GMT
    viveutvivas saidFirst, creatine is greatly overrated in my opinion.

    Second, if you are having a lot of bloating and water retention, it could mean that it is hurting your kidneys. Also, water retention will raise blood pressure, which is bad for cardiovascular health.

    It sounds as if creatine is not for you. You also may want to get some bloodwork done to check on kidney and liver health at some point.



    I'm confused now - does water retention affect blood pressure or vice versa? chicken or egg?