Boycott Divestment Sanction Israel!

  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Aug 18, 2010 12:13 AM GMT
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnpilMYsR0I



    i found this video to be rather interesting, it shows a rather different take behind the BDS movement!

    its shameful that the organization has in many ways harmed the little cooperation that is left between the Israelis and Palestinians.
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    Aug 18, 2010 3:35 PM GMT
    dglater> its shameful that the organization has in many ways harmed the little cooperation that is left between the Israelis and Palestinians.

    Again we see that for too many it's not about being "pro-Palestinian" but "anti-Israel".
    Destroy Israel, one way or another (by hook or by crook), no matter the collateral damage to the Palestinian Arab side.
    This "destroy Israel uber alles" is war-mongering.
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:12 AM GMT
    So BDS wants the right of everyone who had family in Palestine to return to Palestine? Well then I want the right to return to countries that my family came from too, like Scotland, Germany, Poland, Russia, and Spain. If they can have the right to return to their "homeland," then so should I. Considering Spain kicked my Jewish ancestors out 500 years ago, I'm going to raise a shit-fit now demanding that all non-Jewish Spain inhabitants leave that country at once so that I can claim it my territory. In fact, every place that kicked out Jews should not have non-Jewish inhabitants. Jews should own Germany, Poland, and Russia considering they kicked out or killed millions of Jews from around 1890 to 1945.

    I get the mentality of BDS now.icon_eek.gif
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:25 AM GMT
    I agree with JB82. In this case, all American Indians, Canadian First people and Austrilian Aborignes should have these lands returned to them and the European settlers should leave. BDs is just wrong.
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    Aug 19, 2010 2:01 PM GMT
    westbrowjock saidI agree with JB82. In this case, all American Indians, Canadian First people and Austrilian Aborignes should have these lands returned to them and the European settlers should leave. BDs is just wrong.


    It's kind of interesting because everyone can use the "they were here first" ad infinitum and pretty soon there is no country and nobody owns any land except for the wildlife. For instance, in south africa, the aboriginals were systematically wiped out by other blacks before any white settlers showed up -- so technically, it's not their land either.
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    Aug 19, 2010 6:41 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    westbrowjock saidI agree with JB82. In this case, all American Indians, Canadian First people and Austrilian Aborignes should have these lands returned to them and the European settlers should leave. BDs is just wrong.


    It's kind of interesting because everyone can use the "they were here first" ad infinitum and pretty soon there is no country and nobody owns any land except for the wildlife. For instance, in south africa, the aboriginals were systematically wiped out by other blacks before any white settlers showed up -- so technically, it's not their land either.


    Yeah I've used that ad infinitum fallacy to rule out that neither Israelis nor Palestinians can claim it's their land because historically they were there at some point.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    Aug 19, 2010 10:00 PM GMT
    Oh well here goes dglater and Caesarea4 again accusing everyone who supports the rights of the Palestinian people as being anti-Israel. I guess some things will never change.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Aug 19, 2010 10:50 PM GMT
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_absentee
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:56 PM GMT
    In 1945, on the 26.4 million dunams of land in Mandate Palestine, 12.8 million was owned by Palestinians and 1.5 million by European Jews.

    Again, this thread is anti-Palestinian propaganda and ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people.
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:58 PM GMT
    IanCT saidAgain, this thread is anti-Palestinian propaganda and ignoring the plight of the Palestinian people.


    Watch the video you fucking moron. This thread is about a sub-group of Palestinians called BDS that are hindering progress between Palestine and Israel. It CLEARLY differentiates between the BDS and more level-headed Palestinians that care more to cooperate peacefully to work for a solution.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    Aug 19, 2010 11:12 PM GMT
    JB82, Speaking of fucking morons, why don't you look at yourself in the mirror?
  • danielek

    Posts: 124

    Aug 19, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidJB82, Speaking of fucking morons, why don't you look at yourself in the mirror?


    No matter how much you may disagree with someone, you can't reply that way. Counting down the moments until you get banned. Wait, do people get banned on here for violations of the TOS? Just wondering...
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14342

    Aug 19, 2010 11:21 PM GMT
    JB82 has a horrible habit of vicious name calling and making some nasty statements towards other people who don't agree with his blind, pro-Israel viewpoints. He obviously does not know how to communicate with other people without hurling some insults. I just gave him a good taste of his own medicine.
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    Aug 20, 2010 12:24 AM GMT
    IanCT saidIn 1945, on the 26.4 million dunams of land in Mandate Palestine, 12.8 million was owned by Palestinians and 1.5 million by European Jews.


    Where did you get those numbers? Please provide your source.
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    Aug 20, 2010 12:36 AM GMT
    dglater> its shameful that the organization has in many ways harmed the little cooperation that is left between the Israelis and Palestinians.

    caesarea4> Again we see that for too many it's not about being "pro-Palestinian" but "anti-Israel".
    Destroy Israel, one way or another (by hook or by crook), no matter the collateral damage to the Palestinian Arab side.
    This "destroy Israel uber alles" is war-mongering.

    roadbikerob> here goes dglater and Caesarea4 again accusing everyone who supports the rights of the Palestinian people as being anti-Israel.

    No such accusation was made.

    Is rejecting that Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendents living in Arab states be granted the rights guaranteed to all other refugee populations by the Geneva Conventions "pro-Palestinian" or "anti-Israel"?

    The people who support the rights of the Palestinian Arabs only when they expect these to somehow come at the expense of the Jews/Israel are racist hatists and no friends of the Palestinian Arabs (it's unfortunate that too many Palestinian Arabs themselves also hate the Jews/Israel more than they love their own brethren).


    IanCT> on the 26.4 million dunams of land in Mandate Palestine, 12.8 million was owned by Palestinians and 1.5 million by European Jews.

    Maybe this isn't all for naught; previously IanCT and Samxr claimed that Arabs owned 94%. Having repeatedly been proven wrong, now there is more creativity in the lie.

    1. The total land area of Mandate Palestine was 118,784 sq km (118.8 million dunams).
    The area of Western Mandate Palestine (the 22% of historic Palestine allocated to the Jewish state in 1922-23) was 26.6 million dunams.

    2. The use of "European Jews" is vacuous sloganeering.

    3. We also see a rounding down, their own source put the figure of Jewish owned land at 1.864 million dunams (1,864 sq km).

    4. Arab Palestine was allocated 46% of Western Palestine, which is 26.4 * 0.46 = 12.14

    5. I've claimed that resident Arabs owned 3.3% of the land of Western Palestine allocated to Israel. That's about 0.47 million dunams.

    6. Adding the above two results, we get 12.14 + 0.47 = 12.61 million dunams.

    7. Recall that IanCT told us above that Arabs owned 12.8 million dunams. Are we to believe that the Arabs have waged 63 years of war because of the alleged net loss of 0.19 million dunams of land? That's 190 sq km or 74 sq miles!
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    Aug 20, 2010 1:52 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidJB82 has a horrible habit of vicious name calling and making some nasty statements towards other people who don't agree with his blind, pro-Israel viewpoints. He obviously does not know how to communicate with other people without hurling some insults. I just gave him a good taste of his own medicine.


    You do realize that you just acted like you accused me of acting, by calling me names.

    The reason why I'm nasty to people like yourself is that you are infallibly stupid. You fail to grasp even the most basic concept of logic when you go off on tirads. So you genuinely deserve to be lampooned. You troll around threads finding where I post and then lash out on me so horrendously it's actually entertaining. I don't know if you realize how dumb you are, but I suggest you stop posting before you give yourself a heart attack old man. The internet isn't for the faint hearted. I would suggest you no longer try "giving me a taste of my own medicine" because from the nature of your posts it sounds like you're pissed, therefore both losing and amusing me.

    Oh and here's an example (from "Ding Dong the Bitch is Dead" thread) of why there's no point in arguing with you and why I have perfect reason to call you names:

    Photobucket
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    Aug 20, 2010 2:13 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Anyways, BDS is not the only movement boycotting Israeli products.


    But it is a movement that does not want Israel to exist.
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    Aug 20, 2010 2:18 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    JB82 said
    sxydrkhair said
    Anyways, BDS is not the only movement boycotting Israeli products.


    But it is a movement that does not want Israel to exist.


    Right of Return doesn't means to destroy Israel. It is about equal rights for Palestinians return their homes. Even Palestinian refugees from West Bank and Gaza Strip.


    My bad let me rephrase from the video: They don't want to cooperate and have a 2-state resolution.
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    Aug 20, 2010 2:43 AM GMT
    Cognitive dissonance:

    sxydrkhair> I am not defending them or anything. I am not saying they are right or wrong.

    Yet this topic is about them, so why are you simply making the usual kangaroo court accusations (e.g. "stolen", etc.) already refuted elsewhere?

    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491


    sxydrkhair> I think he got it from this source.

    I note that the source references "Jews", not "European Jews".
    So IanCT (and your) first dishonesty is exposed.

    Furthermore there is nothing in that source which contradicts anything I said.

    Again, 80% of the area allocated to Israel was the "uncultivatable" area of the Negev (the Beer Sheva sub-district) which was not privately owned by Arabs.

    You told us that Arabs owned 12,767 sq km and ended up (by the 1947 UN partition compromise) with 12,610 sq km.

    Are you telling us that you went to war over 157 sq km which is 61 square miles?!


    sxydrkhair> Right of Return doesn't means to destroy Israel

    There is no such thing as the so-called "right of return".
    It is exactly code for the demographic destruction of Israel.
    A "two-state solution" by which both would be Arab states.

    The reality is that only about 10% of the Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendents even want to "return" to live in peace in Israel.

    The reality is that the Geneva Conventions call for host nations to grant citizenship to the refugees living in their countries.
    (Not to mention that their children, let alone grand-children, born in those countries should be citizens.)

    samxr prefers that the Palestinian Arab refugees in Lebanon (and elsewhere) remain imprisoned in camps so that they can then be used as a demographic army by which to over-run Israel. He calls that "pro-Palestinian", but I think we all understand that it's simply "anti-Israel" - another of many signs that he hates Israel more than he cares for his own brethren.

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    Aug 20, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair> What C4 was trying to say... No Arabs are allow to live in Israel, but Jews should be majority. Don't you all agree that is racist?

    Why do you reduce yourself into being a clown who can only make straw men?
    That's not at all what I said.


    sxydrkhair> He made a thread "Arabs are not indigenous to Israel."

    It's true, even if you don't know what "indigenous" means.
    The place to discuss that is there:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979648


    Now back to what you are avoiding:

    S1. I note that the source references "Jews", not "European Jews".
    So IanCT (and your) first dishonesty is exposed.

    S2. 80% of the area allocated to Israel was the "uncultivatable" area of the Negev (the Beer Sheva sub-district) which was not privately owned.
    You told us that Arabs owned 12,767 sq km and ended up (by the 1947 UN partition compromise) with 12,610 sq km.
    Are you telling us that you went to war over 157 sq km which is 61 square miles?!

    S3. There is no such thing as the so-called "right of return".

    S4. It is exactly code for the demographic destruction of Israel.
    A "two-state solution" by which both would be Arab states.

    S5. The reality is that only about 10% of the Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendents even want to "return" to live in peace in Israel.

    S6. The reality is that the Geneva Conventions call for host nations to grant citizenship to the refugees living in their countries.
    (Not to mention that their children, let alone grand-children, born in those countries should be citizens.)

    S7. samxr prefers that the Palestinian Arab refugees in Lebanon (and elsewhere) remain imprisoned in camps so that they can then be used as a demographic army by which to over-run Israel. He calls that "pro-Palestinian", but I think we all understand that it's simply "anti-Israel" - another of many signs that he hates Israel more than he cares for his own brethren.


  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Aug 20, 2010 7:33 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 said ... S5. The reality is that only about 10% of the Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendents even want to "return" to live in peace in Israel.


    They much prefer a stateless existance and to live in squalid conditions under threat of another Israeli massacre, such as the 3,500 women and children killed at Sabra and Shatilla (and buried in mass graves with Israeli bulldozers), or more recently, the 1,000 civilians killed in the illegal Gaza invasion (where IDF committed war crimes such as destroying water and sewer facilities, and preventing their repair.)

    C4 sees all, knows all. He even knows what Palestinians "want." C4 knows that Palestinians want Quisling leaders who follow the script given to them by Israel and the U.S.

    C4's definition of a hater:

    1) somebody who points out the suffering imposed by Israel on the Palestinian people,

    2) somebody who is not 100% supportive of the current Israeli government,

    3) somebody who thinks Israel does not need $3 BILLION of U.S. military aid every year (but feels cuts in unemployment benefits to out of work Americans are necessary to help balance the federal budget.)
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Aug 20, 2010 7:46 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 said ... S6. The reality is that the Geneva Conventions call for host nations to grant citizenship to the refugees living in their countries.


    Q: So why hasn't Israel given citizenship to the refugees living in the West Bank and Gaza?

    A: Israel, although it signed the Geneva Conventions, is free to violate every one of its provisions. Because. Just because. Is there any provision of the Geneva Conventions which Israel has NOT violated? Let's see:

    1) Torture of prisoners. CHECK,

    2) Summary execution of prisioners. CHECK,

    3) Destruction of civilian infrastructure. CHECK,

    4) Denial of medical assistance to wounded prisoners and civilians, who are left to die. CHECK,

    5) Intentional killing of non-combatant civilians, including women and children, EVEN IF THEY ARE WAVING A WHITE FLAG. CHECK,

    6) Expulsion of civilians from areas under Israeli military control. CHECK,

    7) Colonization of conquered territories. CHECK ...

    and on and on ...
  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Aug 20, 2010 7:49 PM GMT
    to the moron who said this is me starting anther anti Palestine thread.
    you are wrong, i am pro Palestinian and pro peace, i support a Palestinian state, i am simply arguing the the BDS campaign does now support the current world wide vision for peace in which the Palestinians would have to compromise and give up the "right of return."

    If you support the right of return and not wheeling to compromise on that, then you essentially saying that you don't believe in peace unless Israel as we know it today is destroyed.
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    Aug 20, 2010 11:38 PM GMT
    S1. I note that the source references "Jews", not "European Jews".
    So IanCT (and your) first dishonesty is exposed.


    tokugawa> [doesn't care]


    S2. 80% of the area allocated to Israel was the "uncultivatable" area of the Negev (the Beer Sheva sub-district) which was not privately owned.
    You told us that Arabs owned 12,767 sq km and ended up (by the 1947 UN partition compromise) with 12,610 sq km.
    Are you telling us that you went to war over 157 sq km which is 61 square miles?!


    tokugawa> [uninterested]


    S3. There is no such thing as the so-called "right of return".

    tokugawa> [silence]


    S4. The so-called "right of return" is code for the demographic destruction of Israel.
    A "two-state solution" by which both would be Arab states.


    tokugawa> [no comment]


    S5. The reality is that only about 10% of the Palestinian Arab refugees and their descendents even want to "return" to live in peace in Israel.

    tokugawa> C4 sees all, knows all. He even knows what Palestinians "want."

    I study the subject and take into account poll data, in this case from the Palestine Center for Policy and Survey Research, based in Ramallah and run by Arab academics.

    tokugawa prefers to ignore data that don't suit his preconceived notions or run contrary to his anti-Israel (not pro-Palestinian) political agenda.


    S6. The reality is that the Geneva Conventions call for host nations to grant citizenship to the refugees living in their countries.

    tokugawa> why hasn't Israel given citizenship to the refugees living in the West Bank and Gaza?

    They were already granted citizenship by Trans/Jordan after it unified Judea & Samaria as its so-called "West Bank".

    Why didn't Egypt do the same in Gaza?
    Good question, but not one tokugawa cares about.

    What about in Syria, Lebanon or Kuwait? tokugawa isn't interested.
    Again we see he doesn't care about granting people citizenship, but using them to falsely demonize Israel.

    Real answer: Israel has not annexed these territories. To the contrary, it withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005 and from the areas where 97% of the Palestinian Arabs live in Jordan's former "West Bank" in 1996. The Arabs living there are now citizens of the Palestinian Authority. Indeed, it was just a few months ago that tokugawa falsely stated that there was no such thing as a PA passport (there is, has been since about 1995).


    S7. samxr prefers that the Palestinian Arab refugees in Lebanon (and elsewhere) remain imprisoned in camps so that they can then be used as a demographic army by which to over-run Israel. He calls that "pro-Palestinian", but I think we all understand that it's simply "anti-Israel" - another of many signs that he hates Israel more than he cares for his own brethren.

    tokugawa> [nada]

    tokugawa also prefers that the Palestinian Arab refugees in Lebanon continue to rot in camps until they can flood Israel.
    This is another faux "humanitarian", pretending to care about people, but not really - only using them to advance his anti-Israel agenda.


    tokugawa> C4's definition of a hater: somebody who points out the suffering imposed by Israel on the Palestinian people,

    Only if they are constantly exaggerating said suffering and presenting it out-of-context.
    (e.g. the Germans suffered horribly during WW II. Maybe they shouldn't have started it?)
    Only if they ignore the suffering of the Palestinian Arabs imposed by their own leadership and in other Arab countries.

    tokugawa makes it easy for us. Why limit pointing out the suffering to that which is (allegedly) "imposed by Israel"?
    Again we see that faux "humanitarian" tokugawa's concern is not to alleviate the suffering but to use it to fault Israel.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 21, 2010 5:26 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidI don't think Ianct is a moron. You have to get to know him.

    Suddenly I'm thinking of Larry and his "AAM".