World universities ranking 2010

  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 18, 2010 11:39 AM GMT
    US universities are leading as usual. Well done!


    http://www.arwu.org/ARWU2010.jsp
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    Aug 18, 2010 11:53 AM GMT
    I wonder what compelling criteria they used... icon_rolleyes.gif
  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 18, 2010 1:24 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidI wonder what compelling criteria they used... icon_rolleyes.gif


    The criteria is mentioned there: including nobel prize winners in the uni and research publications esp in prestiguous ones like Nature and Science.
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    Aug 18, 2010 1:28 PM GMT
    so research/publications, as though that were what a great university was about... icon_rolleyes.gif

    (the page wouldn´t work for me btw)

  • gonewind

    Posts: 37

    Aug 18, 2010 6:47 PM GMT
    American universities have usually led the forefront in terms of quality education so no need for any 'icon_rolleyes.gif'.
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    Aug 18, 2010 6:50 PM GMT
    gonewind saidAmerican universities have usually led the forefront in terms of quality education so no need for any 'icon_rolleyes.gif'.


    Quality education meaning being taught by a naive grad student who lists logical fallacies by name? Inspiring.
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    Aug 18, 2010 6:52 PM GMT
    I prefer rankings specific to your career.
  • gonewind

    Posts: 37

    Aug 18, 2010 6:57 PM GMT
    Lostboy said
    Quality education meaning being taught by a naive grad student who lists logical fallacies by name? Inspiring.


    I take it you've had bad experience with American universities?
    And can you really deny Harvard, Stanford, Princeton and etc as being lack luster in quality education?
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    Aug 18, 2010 7:04 PM GMT
    the way that the league tables are decided doesn´t actually reflect the best place to get an education. You can actually learn more, be more changed more as a person and generally get more out of it at a small school than you can at a big name place, where you may hardly ever see the big name professor (big name because s/he spends all her or his time writing books and giving conference papers elsewhere) and are taught by grad students. It looks better on the CV, but you do well because you are already bright and overachieving, not because you have a great education.

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    Aug 18, 2010 7:26 PM GMT
    Lostboy is absolutely correct. Harvard classes are taught by "TF"s or Teaching Fellows.

    A glorified TA for every single class
  • Import

    Posts: 7190

    Aug 18, 2010 10:20 PM GMT
    Those university rankings are bullshit. A lot of times they are ranked based on the amount of endowments they receive. IE. how much money they are able to have donated to them by wealthy alumni. icon_smile.gif
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    Aug 18, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    I don't put too much salt into these ratings. I went to a relatively small, private Baptist school. My courses were taught by professors and not TAs-only labs were done by TAs and the physical education. I had only 3 classes in my entire undergraduate career taught by PhD candidates.
    Although it has high-research activity, the professors were still expected to come in and teach the class efficiently. Professors did not eat you when you went to their offices. Most were real mentors.
    It probably doesn't rank too high on these things, but I couldn't have gone to a better school.
  • commoncoll

    Posts: 1222

    Aug 18, 2010 11:39 PM GMT
    beaujangle said
    Lostboy saidI wonder what compelling criteria they used... icon_rolleyes.gif

    The criteria is mentioned there: including nobel prize winners in the uni and research publications esp in prestiguous ones like Nature and Science.

    I did not pick my university for its high research activity. Those Nobel Prize winners are not going to come teach your class.
  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 19, 2010 2:08 AM GMT
    Sorry guys, I finally managed to copy and paste correctly.

    As regards the ranking of specific courses, they too are found in the website.

    http://www.arwu.org/
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Aug 19, 2010 2:28 AM GMT
    Rankings like this are pretty spurious, in my opinion.

  • Space_Cowboy_...

    Posts: 3738

    Aug 19, 2010 2:32 AM GMT
    mm well not even every University in the world is in here icon_rolleyes.gif
  • NerdLifter

    Posts: 1509

    Aug 19, 2010 2:33 AM GMT
    NC3athlete saidRankings like this are pretty spurious, in my opinion.



    Indeed. Besides the criterion chosen is based upon mostly staff research publications and number of prize winners. Very little correlation between that and the quality of education, so if the intent of the OP was to say: 'Hey look, USA has a great college education system!' Then he needs to present different data.

    Besides I've lost faith in the US educational system... university education is rapidly becoming something only the few can afford. You could be the brightest student in the application pool, if you request financial aid, you get placed on the wait list.

    This happened to my sister twice during her college application process, one of the universities was a "Need-Blind admission" school but they did this to her anyway. They told her they would accept her application if she waved her financial aid request... academia is becoming more and more about what you or your parent's pocket book size is, not about your merit.
  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 19, 2010 2:40 AM GMT
    Spurious? I've copied & pasted some stuff, see below:

    The Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) uses six objective indicators to rank world universities, including the number of alumni and staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals, number of highly cited researchers selected by Thomson Scientific, number of articles published in journals of Nature and Science, number of articles indexed in Science Citation Index - Expanded and Social Sciences Citation Index, and per capita performance with respect to the size of an institution. More than 1000 universities are actually ranked by ARWU every year and the best 500 are published on the web.

    It has attracted a great deal of attention from universities, governments and public media worldwide. A survey on higher education published by The Economist in 2005 commented ARWU as "the most widely used annual ranking of the world's research universities"1. Burton Bollag, a reporter at Chronicle of Higher Education wrote that ARWU "is considered the most influential international ranking"2.

    One of the factors for the significant influence of ARWU is that its methodology is globally sound and transparent. The EU Research Headlines reported the ARWU work on 31st December 2003: "The universities were carefully evaluated using several indicators of research performance."3 Chancellor of Oxford University, Chris Patten, said "the methodology looks fairly solid ... it looks like a pretty good stab at a fair comparison."4 Professor Simon Margison of University of Melbourne commented that one of the strengths of "the academically rigorous and globally inclusive Jiao Tong approach" is "constantly tuning its rankings and invites open collaboration in that"5.

    The ARWU and its content have been widely cited and employed as a starting point for identifying national strengths and weaknesses as well as facilitating reform and setting new initiatives. Bill Destler, the president of the Rochester Institute of Technology, drew reference to the ARWU to analyze the comparative advantages that the Western Europe and US have in terms of intellectual talent and creativity in his publication in the journal Nature6. Martin Enserink referred to ARWU and argued in his paper published in Science that "France's poor showing in the ranking ... helped trigger a national debate about higher education that resulted in a new law... giving universities more freedom7.



  • beaujangle

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 19, 2010 3:02 AM GMT
    charlitos saidI prefer rankings specific to your career.



    Natural Sciences and Mathematics – Harvard, Berkeley and Cambridge
    Engineering/Technology and Computer Sciences – MIT, Stanford and Berkeley
    Life and Agriculture Sciences – Harvard, UC San Francisco and MIT
    Clinical Medicine and Pharmacy – Harvard, UC San Francisco and John Hopkins
    Social Sciences – Harvard, Chicago and Stanford
    Mathematics – Princeton, Berkeley and Harvard
    Physics – Harvard, MIT and Caltech
    Chemistry – Berkeley, Harvard and Cambridge
    Computer Science – Stanford, MIT and Berkeley
    Economics / Business – Harvard, Chicago and MIT
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:38 AM GMT
    Well I, for one, appreciate the info. Thanks for the share! That is definitely a good new resource!
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    Aug 21, 2010 7:28 AM GMT
    Not sure how accurate or concise some of this imformation is, for example Durham university, regarded at one of the top ten universities in the UK is simply missed off this list.
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    Aug 21, 2010 7:33 AM GMT
    kentstrongtommy said
    charlitos saidI prefer rankings specific to your career.


    good point. the second language spoken in Bill Gate's company is ROMANIAN.


    Haha

    And well, having been to both European and American colleges, I seriously doubt the validity of the criteria they use... Im not saying American education is necessarily worse, but lets just say I usually found the european colleges to be more challenging mentally..

    Besides, I'll bet the nobel prize winners working for most American schools hail from other countries to begin with
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    Aug 21, 2010 7:36 AM GMT
    beaujangle saidSpurious? I've copied & pasted some stuff, see below:

    The Academic Ranking of World Universities (ARWU) uses six objective indicators to rank world universities, including the number of alumni and staff winning Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals, number of highly cited researchers selected by Thomson Scientific, number of articles published in journals of Nature and Science, number of articles indexed in Science Citation Index - Expanded and Social Sciences Citation Index, and per capita performance with respect to the size of an institution. More than 1000 universities are actually ranked by ARWU every year and the best 500 are published on the web.





    This makes it quite clear.. the schools were not ranked by education, but by their research ... there was nothing in the indez which showed the professors were competent educators, literally nothing

    This clearly shows the state of the academic world and the universities competition not for better-educated students, but higher prestige through numbers of publications lol

    Did you know Haravrd University gives almost all of its students A's and B's? I heard they do this specifically to keep up the image of them having high performance students, plus the reasoning that they already selected for the cream of the crop, so why bring down their GPA's anyway??? icon_razz.gif
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    Aug 21, 2010 8:12 AM GMT
    djaj saidLostboy is absolutely correct. Harvard classes are taught by "TF"s or Teaching Fellows.

    A glorified TA for every single class


    As far as humanities are concerned, it depends entirely on the quality of the teaching faculty, and the libraries.

    At my undergrad and grad institutions, courses are taught by professors, unless it's a foreign language. Much cheaper to hire an instructor for that.

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    Aug 21, 2010 8:38 AM GMT
    PRIVATE SCHOOL... Famous college names are nolonger the home of reputable knowlege. We are approaching an era where the poor will become rich and the rich unfortuately will become poor because the poor nologer depend upon the rich in order to sell a good product. WAKE UP.