Young guys with poor outlooks on life

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    Aug 19, 2010 3:27 AM GMT
    Disclaimer: This in no way applies to all or even most young guys...
    However, I've noticed several posts from young guys with really bleak outlooks on life and being gay. I find that sad considering that those just now coming out have so much more societal support and a wide berth when it comes to being who they are in relation to how it was when I came out about twelve years ago (and that wasn't that long ago). Additionally, they don't have a fraction of the issues to deal with that guys coming out in eighties, seventies, and sixties had.

    Is it a generational thing? Just a curious observation.
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:31 AM GMT

    It seems to be an epidemic.
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:32 AM GMT
    But, they have the same internal shit to deal with that we all have, it hasn't changed inside, even if it has outside......has taken me 58yrs and finally pokiing my head out of the shell,
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:36 AM GMT
    vetteset saidBut, they have the same internal shit to deal with that we all have, it hasn't changed inside, even if it has outside......has taken me 58yrs and finally pokiing my head out of the shell,
    Understandable, but I couldn't have even contemplated a site like RJ existing when I was dealing with things. I was literally alone with no one real or online to talk to. It just seems that with all the advantages they have now they would be able to not feel that utter isolation. Interesting.
    For you though, it was even worse you lived through the time when we were blatantly and unashamedly hated. Compared to you I had a cakewalk.
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:44 AM GMT
    that's sweet of you, but alot of us are still raised by families who may not look at being gay as the being the best alternative. regardless of the forums, or schools or whatever, a guy still has to come to terms with a pretty heavy amount of shit inside his own head. I'm trying to come out now and deal with 58 years of societal shaping. I'm not afraid anymore, don't think its a sin or wrong or wierd so i'm ahead of the game compared to some young guys here. But now i have to learn how to walk all over again. Still scary no matter how old you are, n'est pas??
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    Aug 19, 2010 4:59 AM GMT
    vetteset saidBut, they have the same internal shit to deal with that we all have, it hasn't changed inside, even if it has outside......has taken me 58yrs and finally pokiing my head out of the shell,


    They have the same internal shit to deal with....yes, but they also have resources that were not even available when I was 18-26.
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    Aug 19, 2010 6:27 AM GMT
    vetteset saidthat's sweet of you, but alot of us are still raised by families who may not look at being gay as the being the best alternative. regardless of the forums, or schools or whatever, a guy still has to come to terms with a pretty heavy amount of shit inside his own head. I'm trying to come out now and deal with 58 years of societal shaping. I'm not afraid anymore, don't think its a sin or wrong or wierd so i'm ahead of the game compared to some young guys here. But now i have to learn how to walk all over again. Still scary no matter how old you are, n'est pas??

    With that said, we all have shit in our head and obstacles to overcome in the process, but some guys now seem so reticent to do the work and choose instead to have a dark outlook despite the tremendous societal changes and their unprecedented access to information and support systems outside of their immediate family.

    Make no mistake that my coming out process was the most gut wrenching and emotionally painful experience I've ever had, but on the other side I found a strength and confidence I never knew existed. I grew up on the Texas-Louisiana border, an area with a vicious homophobic and racist culture. As I was finishing college my parents moved and I lived with my pastor's family the last year and a half of school. This was the exact time I had begun my coming out. While still in school I told my parents and consequently became somewhat estranged at the same time risking losing a place to live. I had to mourn the loss of my family because they weren't at the time able to deal with the situation. I turned to those that accepted this new information about me and found others to help me along. Eventually my parents were able to come to terms, but I made the ground rules clear. Over time they have become wonderful advocates and have even helped other parents deal with their children coming out. But that took a lot of time. Had they not come around, I would still be fine because I made the painful decision that if they didn't treat me and my partner with the same respect they did my sister, there would be no relationship. Not easy, but I deserve nothing less from my parents or anyone else I choose to be an active part of my life.

    That's my story in a nut shell. There's tons of details, but I won't go into those here. Ultimatly my point is that I know how hard it is, but it can be done with courage and dignity. Why then are those with so many resources so down on life?
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    Aug 19, 2010 6:49 AM GMT
    Hillie saidThey have the same internal shit to deal with....yes, but they also have resources that were not even available when I was 18-26.

    Yes, nor did I at that age.

    Being former military, I tend to a "tough love" approach. I tried that in a previous thread I started, about 20-somethings not trying hard enough. I got beat to hell over it.

    I guess criticism isn't welcome. We can only stroke and compliment the young'uns, no negativity allowed. OK, I understand the rules now. They are young & beautiful, and we must worship them. They take no advice, need no guidance, have it all figured out.

    Wish I had that arrogant confidence at that age. Could have done anything the hell I pleased. Ignored older models, ignored my own contemporaries, ignored anything but myself. I think I've read that's the ME generation. Well, that's not MY generation, and if you wanna be all about you, fine. I just think there's a better path, a nobler path, a more humane path. But apparently a path today's men don't choose to take. icon_sad.gif
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    Aug 19, 2010 7:23 AM GMT
    They're just bratty impatient little girls.
    veruca_salt.jpg

    I WANT IT NOW, DADDY!

    ...mm that sounded hot.
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:20 AM GMT
    RudeMech saidDisclaimer: This in no way applies to all or even most young guys...
    However, I've noticed several posts from young guys with really bleak outlooks on life and being gay. I find that sad considering that those just now coming out have so much more societal support and a wide berth when it comes to being who they are in relation to how it was when I came out about twelve years ago (and that wasn't that long ago). Additionally, they don't have a fraction of the issues to deal with that guys coming out in eighties, seventies, and sixties had.

    Is it a generational thing? Just a curious observation.


    do you think that having some buddies on the internet makes it easier to come out to our parents?
    they still grew in the 60s, 70s. maybe for the generations that will have parents born in the 90s and 2000s would be easier.
  • coastguy90814

    Posts: 661

    Aug 19, 2010 10:25 AM GMT
    RudeMech saidDisclaimer: This in no way applies to all or even most young guys...
    However, I've noticed several posts from young guys with really bleak outlooks on life and being gay. I find that sad considering that those just now coming out have so much more societal support and a wide berth when it comes to being who they are in relation to how it was when I came out about twelve years ago (and that wasn't that long ago). Additionally, they don't have a fraction of the issues to deal with that guys coming out in eighties, seventies, and sixties had.

    Is it a generational thing? Just a curious observation.


    Wow...weird...I'm only 23 and I think it's easier than ever coming out and feeling secure with who you are. I absolutely have no bleak outlook on life, only positive. Very interesting.
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:41 AM GMT
    so you are a lucky man. my brother would kill me and my parents would kick me out of the house maybe.
    so i have to wait until i will be on my own and tell them. if they don't accept me it's fine, i dont have to be close to people who reject me for what i am
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:42 AM GMT
    Every generation blames the ones both before and after for society's ills.

    Try not to turn into your parents too quickly.
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:50 AM GMT
    Hillie said
    It seems to be an epidemic.


    Perhaps even a ....Pandemic!
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    Aug 19, 2010 10:54 AM GMT
    From a twenty-something that has run the range of emotions on this topic, let me try to explain, because right now it seems like everyone is missing a big point.

    Just because we are young, have access to more information, the internet, a more "accepting," culture, etc. doesn't mean that some of us didn't grow up in backwards societies, unaccepting families, or for some reason or another weren't comfortable enough with our surroundings to seek out help when we were dealing with the "coming-out process." (ps I HATE that term because it makes being gay sound like an adjustment to your life) There are lots of reasons for young people to be unsure of themselves when they are figuring out who they are, ranging from hearing their parents make crude remarks about homosexuality to being in High School and hearing "THATS GAY," 15 times a day. The society has changed, but the pressures are still the same, just like guys 30 years ago (and more), you still have to seek out the support, its not knocking on your door, and that can be daunting for a person who is already either scared of who they are, or not willing to admit it to people for fear of reprisal.

    Thankfully, I just never gave a flying flit what anyone thought. Granted I didn't realize that I was gay until a random Saturday night when I was at a gay friends b-day party, got a little too into things and ended up in bed with a friend of a friend icon_idea.gif. I was pretty OK with it, and set to letting people know that I was not really looking at girls anymore. It was a swift process, and thankfully I was at school, living in a major metropolitan area, and so had a supportive environment. However, when I went home and came out to family, it was NOT the same case, and there are some of them that still just flat out won't talk to me. It even took my mom a few weeks to speak to me in a tone that wasn't constantly threatening. I can imagine that had I not been so confident of myself, and willing to share that with other people in a constructive and collaborative manner I may feel very different about being gay. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same set of circumstances (or outlook on being gay) as I do, so I can sympathize when I see someone take a negative attitude towards being gay, but I still hope they turn around and understand that it can be a jumping off point rather than a weight on their shoulders.
  • HndsmKansan

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    Aug 19, 2010 12:30 PM GMT
    I would agree with some of what jetset said above.....

    I still remember my mother telling me "you have your life in front of you"
    so many times when I was in college. It was an amazing, hopeful time.
    At that point I'd already been in a difficult position in high school and had an amazing time in college. You want your life to be full of achievements, many people in your family have expectations and you probably have some of yourself.

    Then reality... can be hard to find a job, criticism, acceptance, perception of oneself can be tough as a teenager.... then some realize they are gay and it may represent one more "life event" that one has to deal with. It can create a bleak environment.

    By the time I really accepted I was gay, I was past that point in my life.
    I know who I am, what I'm capable of, my perceptions were long set and intact. I viewed being gay as another "trait" of who I am.
  • tituspullo197...

    Posts: 203

    Aug 19, 2010 12:43 PM GMT
    Ciarsolo saidThey're just bratty impatient little girls.
    veruca_salt.jpg

    I WANT IT NOW, DADDY!

    ...mm that sounded hot.


    love it!
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    Aug 19, 2010 12:49 PM GMT
    I certainly won't claim to have the answer to your question, but I will throw in a few observations.

    First Observation:
    -------------------------
    I am not entirely sure this is something that is unique to gay youth, or even to the youth of today. We have many more media resources today which allow us to interact with more people than was ever possible, so we hear more about kids being negative.

    We know that every generation has had issues with their youth that was characterized through the issues of the day. For example, in the 60's and 70's all the kids were deemed by adults to be hippies who did not care about anything but themselves, sex and drugs. The 80's had the goth culture which was also considered a very dark, negative and even malicious generation.

    I think part of the issue is what you are exposed to in terms of the youth and what you choose to focus on. I would say that while there are a large number of youth both gay and straight that seem to have a negative attitude about life, there are also many youth of today who are themselves making positive contributions. I cannot remember a time when I heard about so many kids coming out in Junior High School and High School in order to attend proms or to fight stereotypes. I could never have done this.

    There will always be kids who have a hard time being positive in different situations, it is part of the growing up experience. The resources available are helpful but they do not resolve all the issues that kids must face.

    Second Observation:
    ------------------------------

    It really bothers me when people compare their own experiences to those of others and assume "If I can do it, so can they". It is a very natural thing to do and I myself have done it, but that doesn't make it right. My own experience coming out was very positive, in part because of who I am, the environment I grew up in and the experiences I had before coming out. When I say positive, I mean that I took control and did not allow people like my marine brother to bother me.

    We are not all the same though our stories may have similar components. We cannot assume to know what someone is going through simply because we went through a similar experience. I really don't know that my coming out experience would have been any better given the available resources of today if I grew up in a restrictive and/or abusive environment.

    In other words we need to look at the full experience of an individual before understanding what drives them to look at the glass half empty. We can't judge them based on our own experiences, we can simply relate to portions of it.

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    Aug 19, 2010 12:57 PM GMT
    They talk about what troubles them because they can. We couldn't when we were their age. icon_wink.gif
    It might have been easier for each of us if we'd been able to...

    -Doug
  • swimjohn

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    Aug 19, 2010 1:07 PM GMT
    As one of these troubled and oh so disrespectful youths I'd just like to add my two cents. First of all I do believe that the problems you are noticing are with our generation as a whole, not just the gays of our generation.

    Secondly I think the harder part of coming out now is that people are doing it younger and younger because it is now a little more socially acceptable. They want to get it over with and start living their lives. Unfortunately when you deal with something like this in your teens and early twenties you are far less mature and already dealing with the issues of insecurity and self identification that all people your age have to deal with.

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    Aug 19, 2010 1:21 PM GMT

    Is not easy to come out on an environment where there's absolutely no open mind for it, for instance, my home.

    I mean, growing up was one thing. And then, there was other things going on like growing up with my dad only and loosing my mom when i was very little, going introvert instead of who i really am, which is a very outgoing, happy, bubbly, optimistic kinda guy ... anyways ..

    It was after high school, when i start going to college and meeting new people and opening my horizons .... spending more time with my best friend since we were 8 years old (a lifetime friendship) .... came out with her, it was hard but she supported me and .... that helped me.

    College experience is another thing .... meeting new people, watching what happens outside your shell ..... haha, i mean .. making new friends, some of them, friends for a lifetime .... and, honestly after i came out to my best friend, it was a bit easier coming out to new friends.

    And life becomes much easier when you don't have to hide. And for me is not like it's obvious.

    I've never been obvious .... for me, my sexuality does not define my lifestyle.
    And nowadays, only my close friends know, some members of my family (not my dad or my brothers) .....

    I guess it depends on how comfortable you feel with yourself and knowing that, liking boys/girls doesn't define you as a person. It's what you believe in, and your capability of doing what's best for you, taking good decisions and making the good thing, taking the best out of things and trying to help others to achieve their goals as you achieve yours.

    There'll come a time when you get independent and you do not depend on your parents or anybody else to come out and let them know. It shouldn't stop you for being the person you want to be. Then again, I'm talking about my own experience, and I'm only 23 years old but, I DO have my goals set, and I'm pretty damn sure of what I want in life and how to get it.

    It doesn't apply for everybody, but I'm sure many can relate to me as this world is really big.

    Many people doesn't have the same support from their close friends, from some people in their family. For some people there's barriers in the way they were raised so ..... yea ...


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    Aug 19, 2010 2:48 PM GMT
    swimjohn69 saidAs one of these troubled and oh so disrespectful youths I'd just like to add my two cents. First of all I do believe that the problems you are noticing are with our generation as a whole, not just the gays of our generation.

    Secondly I think the harder part of coming out now is that people are doing it younger and younger because it is now a little more socially acceptable. They want to get it over with and start living their lives. Unfortunately when you deal with something like this in your teens and early twenties you are far less mature and already dealing with the issues of insecurity and self identification that all people your age have to deal with.

    De ja vu...
    I came out at age 21, about 18 years ago...still relatively young coming out for my generation. It was during the Bill Clinton era, so it was starting to gain some social acceptance...and I was living in Hope, Arkansas at the time (Clinton's birthplace - no we're not related), so that made it even easier. But as you said, the internal insecurities were still there, and I did have to shoot at a couple fag-bashing teams once or twice and kick an ass or two before acceptance caught on more.
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:01 PM GMT
    mariobros said
    Is not easy to come out on an environment where there's absolutely no open mind for it, for instance, my home.

    I mean, growing up was one thing. And then, there was other things going on like growing up with my dad only and loosing my mom when i was very little, going introvert instead of who i really am, which is a very outgoing, happy, bubbly, optimistic kinda guy ... anyways ..

    It was after high school, when i start going to college and meeting new people and opening my horizons .... spending more time with my best friend since we were 8 years old (a lifetime friendship) .... came out with her, it was hard but she supported me and .... that helped me.

    College experience is another thing .... meeting new people, watching what happens outside your shell ..... haha, i mean .. making new friends, some of them, friends for a lifetime .... and, honestly after i came out to my best friend, it was a bit easier coming out to new friends.

    And life becomes much easier when you don't have to hide. And for me is not like it's obvious.

    I've never been obvious .... for me, my sexuality does not define my lifestyle.
    And nowadays, only my close friends know, some members of my family (not my dad or my brothers) .....

    I guess it depends on how comfortable you feel with yourself and knowing that, liking boys/girls doesn't define you as a person. It's what you believe in, and your capability of doing what's best for you, taking good decisions and making the good thing, taking the best out of things and trying to help others to achieve their goals as you achieve yours.

    There'll come a time when you get independent and you do not depend on your parents or anybody else to come out and let them know. It shouldn't stop you for being the person you want to be. Then again, I'm talking about my own experience, and I'm only 23 years old but, I DO have my goals set, and I'm pretty damn sure of what I want in life and how to get it.

    It doesn't apply for everybody, but I'm sure many can relate to me as this world is really big.

    Many people doesn't have the same support from their close friends, from some people in their family. For some people there's barriers in the way they were raised so ..... yea ...




    Creating fake profiles again Bello?

    JOKE

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 19, 2010 3:14 PM GMT
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    Aug 19, 2010 4:13 PM GMT
    Brit_Bloke saidCreating fake profiles again Bello?

    JOKE

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    Correct sentence structure, proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation, and thoughts separated by paragraphs...nope, not Bello. icon_razz.gif