Vegan & raw bodybuilding, opinions?

  • radedd

    Posts: 8

    Aug 28, 2010 5:35 PM GMT
    I just wanted to see if anyone and any thoughts or opinions regarding vegan and/or raw nutrition as if pertains to athletic performance, weight-training, bodybuilding, and general applications to overall health.

    Here are some interesting stories, food for thought I came across:

    --About thriving on a low fat vegan raw food diet and how it has achieved some incredible benefits for some individuals:
    http://www.loving-it-raw.com/raw-food-success-stories.html

    --Website from Robert Cheeke, a professional bodybuilder who is an advocate (if not THE advocate of vegan bodybuilding)
    http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/

    Hope to hear from y'all!
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Aug 28, 2010 9:42 PM GMT
    Dude...... I only thing I can see in regards to the vegan diet pertaining to bodybuilding is your need for the proper amounts of protein...You should get a min. of 1 gram of protein per pound minus your body fat levels...example your 180 with 10% body fat....you should consume 170 grams of protein to build muscle....you could turn to soy products.....even soy protein shakes to help ya with this....boiled soy beans are tasty but you'd need to eat a shit load....just my thoughts....BUD
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    Aug 28, 2010 9:46 PM GMT
    Soy increases estrogen in men, which counters testosterone and defeats all efforts to gain lean muscle mass. The quantity of soy required to make up for the amount of lean animal protein needed in a regular bodybuilding diet is actually dangerous for men.

    If you can forego the 'raw' and stay vegetarian, then there are green pea and rice proteins which are more complete, but they're not as efficient or effective as whey or casein. Alive! makes a very good green-pea/rice protein with good profile.


    http://www.menshealth.com/men/nutrition/food-for-fitness/soys-negative-effects/article/0ad3803313651210vgnvcm10000013281eac
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Aug 28, 2010 9:52 PM GMT
    MuscleComeBack saidSoy increases estrogen in men, which counters testosterone and defeats all efforts to gain lean muscle mass. Stay away from soy at all cost.
    There are green pea and rice proteins which are more complete, but they're not as efficient or effective as whey or casein.


    Ya I agree to an extent.....but we're talkin about proper levels of protein...unless he would he willin to include whey or milk products in the mix...If no milk items....Dude....you'll need soy...just sayin...take it for it's worth....Lastly estrogen level philosophy over rated my some....do research further my brother...again ...my opinion....BUD
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    Aug 28, 2010 9:54 PM GMT
    I edited my post above, BUD, with a link to an article that shows the cons and the pros of balanced soy intake, but it just can't replace complete proteins IMO.
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    Aug 28, 2010 9:58 PM GMT
    An excellent source of protein, other than dead animal flesh, is Quinoa. That combined with vegetables, SOY, and some decent supplements will give you ALL the protein you need to build muscle.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    Aug 28, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    Hey Musclequest -
    One of the many things I respect about you is your perspective on a meat-free life. I'm an omnivore, however, and I have whey and casein allergies. My pre-digested protein of choice is actually egg albumen, followed by a pre-digested beef isolate, and then the green-pea/rice I mentioned. I've always thought about a meat-free diet when I read your profile, but I've never seen any satisfying research that proves things like quinoa in whole form - cooked - do what animal proteins do.
    For example, I've yet to see research on quinoa in powdered form. Efficient uptake and synthesis of protein as post-workout nutrition isn't possible in whole cooked quinoa to my knowledge, and other pre-digested vegetable proteins lag seriously behind the efficacy of pre-digested animal proteins by a considerable margin.
    Can you point me to some research that compares post-workout uptake/sythesis of non-animal proteins in whole foods? I figure if anybody here would know, it would be you.
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    Aug 28, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    MuscleComeBack saidHey Musclequest -
    One of the many things I respect about you is your perspective on a meat-free life. I'm an omnivore, however, and I have whey and casein allergies. My pre-digested protein of choice is actually egg albumen, followed by a pre-digested beef isolate, and then the green-pea/rice I mentioned. I've always thought about a meat-free diet when I read your profile, but I've never seen any satisfying research that proves things like quinoa in whole form - cooked - do what animal proteins do.
    For example, I've yet to see research on quinoa in powdered form. Efficient uptake and synthesis of protein as post-workout nutrition isn't possible in whole cooked quinoa to my knowledge, and other pre-digested vegetable proteins lag seriously behind the efficacy of pre-digested animal proteins by a considerable margin.
    Can you point me to some research that compares post-workout uptake/sythesis of non-animal proteins in whole foods? I figure if anybody here would know, it would be you.

    LOL!!! Thank you for your faith in my ability to scientifically validate my diet.
    Honestly I have not done the clinical research. Nor am I as verse as you appear to be in said analysis of scientific data.
    My diet was set up for me by a competitive Bodybuilder I had dated years ago. He was not a Vegetarian, but his competitive Bodybuilder partner before me was.
    Since then I have checked with several dieticians over the years and they have ALL said the Quinoa is an EXCELLENT source of protein.
    All I can say is that my diet seems to work for me. (last time I ate animal flesh was when I was around 10 or so) icon_neutral.gif
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif
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    Aug 28, 2010 10:29 PM GMT
    Musclequest said(last time I ate dead flesh was when I was around 10 or so)


    What about live flesh? icon_smile.gif
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    Aug 28, 2010 10:51 PM GMT
    Have you tried hemp protein? Totally vegan, high in protein and also a good choice to augment your soy protein intake.
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    Aug 28, 2010 11:02 PM GMT
    I tried veganism for a year and had great food and all, but I just felt weak. I think it may have something to do with
    my blood type (O-) and it also made me look frail. Best to you, if you can make it work for you. icon_biggrin.gif

    I am now a fan of Michael Pollan's work and his mantra is: Eat FOOD, not too much and mostly plants. I rarely eat beef and pork (mostly fish and chicken) and limit dairy; I feel great.

    You can be an Olympian and be Vegan:

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    Aug 28, 2010 11:03 PM GMT
    Musclequest saidAn excellent source of protein, other than dead animal flesh, is Quinoa. That combined with vegetables, SOY, and some decent supplements will give you ALL the protein you need to build muscle.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Totally agree with you on quinoa (pronounced Keen-waah). It's the one of the few foods that has all nine essential amino acids, particularly high in the amino acid lysine, which is essential for tissue growth and repair, and with a good amount of protein. And for bonus points, if you buy it already rinsed, you can cook it in about 10 -12 minutes. Way quicker than organic rice and easier to incorporate into your diet.