Question(s) about pot smoking.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 4:29 PM GMT
    Hello fellow lovers of men. I have a question about smoking pot. I don't smoke pot and I never will, but I would like to know what some folks who smoke pot think about this.

    So you know how thousands of people have died as part of the war on drugs and what not, and cartels do horrible things to people, as we've seen on the news of things going on in Mexico. (Think of mass graves and mutilated bodies) Do you guys buy from sources that you know doesn't go to these evil people? (If that's possible, I really don't know). When you see those terrible things on the news, do you think you may have played a tiny roll in that, by using or buying pot? If so, do you just set aside a sense of responsibility you may feel? And if you do feel like you contributed to it somehow, is it not that big a deal because you have such a tiny roll in it as you are only one of the millions of people who buy it?

    I'm sure there's some strong feelings on this stuff. Hoping for respectful responses. icon_smile.gif Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  • jmanorlando

    Posts: 205

    Aug 29, 2010 10:21 PM GMT
    I don't smoke either and have thought about the cost - gangs, police, lives lost and how some friends don't seem to enjoy life like they did unless they are high. Curious to see if you get any honest polite answers on this question.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 10:25 PM GMT
    Well said BlackLab! This is one of the reasons I, too, will never feed into drug use or any part of the culture (not to mention the ill health effects of using them).

    Some people will argue that this is the reason we need to legalize drugs in the USA; in that violence associated with the drug cartels and dealers would cease if there was no need to hide it. If illicit drugs could be produced here in the USA legally, then the lifeblood of the cartels would be lost and the violence associated with them would diminish.

    I'm not sure if I agree with them that the drug violence would disappear because people will always try and find illegal ways to make easy money. Hmmm, maybe if we made human trafficking legal then the violence associated with trying to stop the traffickers would be eliminated! Disgusting.

    JMHO
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 29, 2010 10:39 PM GMT
    This doesn't seem to be an honest question. That is, what is the point you're trying to get at here? Implore people to always think of others before their own considerations, desires, and needs?
    But more to the point this kind of argument can be easily turned against you. What about all the clothes you wear made by slave labor? What about the food you eat, chocolate for example made by child slaves? What about your tax dollars that help make multimillion dollar missiles that destroy villages around the world?

    People can and do grow their own marijuana. What becomes of your position upon this revelation?

    I'd also like to know how anyone can justify marijuana prohibition but allow alcohol to be consumed.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 29, 2010 10:44 PM GMT
    There are a couple of things you need to saparate out here, as they are not to be conflated.

    Firstly is the legality of marijuana and perhaps other drugs. Secondly is consumer responsibility. I would suggest you dwell on the following two thoughts related to each of these.

    Consumer Responsibility

    Let's take consumer responsibility first. The idea here is that one has some sort of responsibility, when one buys a product, to know where it came from, how it was made and by who, if it was made legally, if it was made fairly, what harm the company who made it may have inflicted, and so on. You seem to endorse the idea that if the product came from a person or company which operates illegally or which causes some kind of harm to others then it is immoral to ever buy products from said person or company. At least you seem to buy this idea entirely when it comes to the product of marrijuana, but I wonder if you really buy the this idea entirely and consistently.

    Check your closet. Do you know who made every piece of clothing? How much do you know about the companies? Do you know what country they were made in and the wages of the people who made the items? Are you sure none of these companies were ever caught exploiting workers in any way or using sweat shops? Do you know what shipping companies were involved and if any of them employ any operating standards that do no meet up with your ethical requirements?

    How about your food? Your computer parts? Do you drive a car and thus use gas and are responsible for any wars over oil? (example stolen from Pyrotech). The list goes on. Ask yourself how much you really know about where your stuff comes from and if you are maybe - just maybe - singling out this one item (marijuana) or category of items (drugs) for special treatment. If you are, then the principle of consumer responsibility is actually irrelevant to you and you are using special pleading to argue against marijuana use fallaciously. If not, then i commend the many, many hours you must spend on researching hundreds of companies every month.

    The War On Drugs

    You mentioned some harm (including death) that comes about as a result of drug trade. Have you considered why this might be? Why does this not come about anywhere near as much with prescription drugs? Why do we not hear about the US cigarette cartels responsible for thousands of deaths every year? Where are the huge graveyards of people who tried and failed to smuggle beer across the mexican border?

    I would suggest to you that the hysteria and illegality around marijuana is the problem to begin with. The problem is not the substance which, by any objective scientific standard, is less harmful than tabacco or alcohol. The problem is the war on drugs itself.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 29, 2010 10:45 PM GMT
    I should add...

    I write this as someone whose lifelong drug use consists of taking three - maybe four - tylenols as most.
  • Thegenuineart...

    Posts: 127

    Aug 29, 2010 10:48 PM GMT
    ^^^That was an extremely educated and interesting post Delivis.

    Most pot is grown pretty locally at least in Ontario, most of the people that I would buy it from knows someone who grows it. Plenty of grow ops are found in Ontario and else where in Canada. http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2010/08/06/14945246.html

    Its pretty rare to find stuff from out of the province much less out of the country.
    But then again its all who you know.

    But as for other drugs.. some have a purpose and can generally be an insightful experience done in a small quantity. Many drugs though have just destroyed many people and families in the most disgusting and painful possible ways so I can partially see where your coming from BlackLab.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 10:56 PM GMT
    Many places in the US grow pot as well. There are several places where it is legally (with prescription) grown and sold. I doubt you'd see a mass grave over "turf wars" from locally grown pot. Perhaps laws should be changed so that marijuana is legal to those over 21, much like alcohol.

    The next question becomes: Do you drive a car, thus supporting wars in countries over the oil that is manufactured to provide you with gasoline?
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 29, 2010 10:56 PM GMT
    LondonCanuck said^^^That was an extremely educated and interesting post Delivis.



    Why thank you. I mostly just get complaints that my posts are too long....icon_smile.gif
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 29, 2010 10:59 PM GMT
    Pyrotech said

    The next question becomes: Do you drive a car, thus supporting wars in countries over the oil that is manufactured to provide you with gasoline?


    An excellent example. Mind if I steal it? I should have thought of that in my long-winded post. I just got a lot of flashbacks to the 90's when Nike and other clothing companies were the poster childs of sweatshops and bad corporate ethics and people were constantly encouraging the public to boycott them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:07 PM GMT
    Delivis said
    LondonCanuck said^^^That was an extremely educated and interesting post Delivis.



    Why thank you. I mostly just get complaints that my posts are too long....icon_smile.gif



    It was long! But thats cool, Ill try to respond but I'm not as articulate icon_sad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:11 PM GMT
    I tend to agree with Delivis.

    Also, if you own a laptop, Play Station or cell phone, you are contributing to a massive genocide in the Congo, which has been waging since 1996, and has resulted in the deaths of over 6 million innocent people, making it the most deadly conflict since World War II. But we don't know much about it, because it is being waged by Uganda and Rwanda (two states which are proxies and pawns of the American empire and it's NATO allies) and western corporations (including massive amounts of Canadian mining companies) are reaping incredible profits exploiting the resources and forced labour.

    So... do you own a cell phone? lap top? Because if you do, you are just as culpable to the genocide in the Congo as pot smokers are to violence in Mexico.

    Although, we could always of course focus on the actual conflicts themselves, and instead of being "ethical consumers" (something which I think has reached beyond the point of possibility), we could actually seek to change our own governments which wage these wars for the benefit of big bucks.

    Just a thought.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:12 PM GMT
    What's up with all the plant topics lately?

    A close friend of mine produces his own, and I exclusively buy from him. I think a lot of people are that way. Maybe in the western part of the united states that might be a stronger consideration (though I would think a majority of the violence would be over other more extreme drugs like cocaine and heroine). Here in upstate NY, if it isn't home grown, it's most likely from Canada. And I don't think they Canadians anything near those F13's.

    But it's a valid point to make. As well as some of the other non-narcotic related posts. Americans (and other nations) consume materials that are produced through less than shady means. Most of us are blissfully unaware. When we become aware... what do we do to change it?

    Alternative energy is the largest related topic I could think of. But I'd dissuade anybody from getting into that conversation..
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:14 PM GMT
    Pyrotech saidMany places in the US grow pot as well. There are several places where it is legally (with prescription) grown and sold. I doubt you'd see a mass grave over "turf wars" from locally grown pot. Perhaps laws should be changed so that marijuana is legal to those over 21, much like alcohol.

    The next question becomes: Do you drive a car, thus supporting wars in countries over the oil that is manufactured to provide you with gasoline?



    I see, this makes sense if legalized. I do drive a car, its necessary to live and work. And me driving a car plays a role in those wars and harming the environment. So that takes us back to my question. Do peeps who buy it from cartel folk, (indirectly I guess) acknowledge their roll in the negative and brutal things that are related to it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:22 PM GMT
    Locally grown hydro is the way to go. Mexican pot sucks.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:22 PM GMT
    When you pay your taxes, do you realize part of that money goes to fight the ward on drugs, which is actually the culprit responsible for killing all those people?

    If every pot smoker stopped smoking pot at once, that would not even put a dent in the violence our govt exhibits toward drugs. They will still kill as long as we support them. So if you want to stop the violence, stop paying your taxes.
  • MidwesternKid

    Posts: 1167

    Aug 29, 2010 11:25 PM GMT
    I think that at least here in America we should focus more of the policing efforts in cracking down on more serious things. Maybe gang violence and other serious drugs, etc. I can't speak for how things work in some cities like San Francisco. I was there and I saw that it is medicinal. I don't live around it, or at least I don't see it that much. But that is just my opinion so I can't speak for every other part of the country...even the world.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:26 PM GMT
    LondonCanuck beat me to it.

    and what is the deal with all the pot threads all of the sudden?

    most stuff i've seen is from farmer's fields outside the city. with the exception of hydro, which a good friend of mine did in his basement a few times. nobody was killed from the basement weed.

    i also do not feel responsible for someone else killing ppl. do you feel responsible for shopping at the grocery store that employs the serial rapist that you didnt know about? you contribute to his income which allows him to have the apartment to live in and do his crimes, but you can't control his actions with your money. even if you didnt shop at that grocery store, he's still a serial rapist, he just might have to find another job somewhere else.

    and that's what all the gangs and cartels would do if ppl stopped buying drugs-they would just find something else to make money on. the problem is the ppl that are the murderers, not me and my friends.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:41 PM GMT
    Delivis said
    An excellent example. Mind if I steal it?


    It's all yours, bud.
  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Aug 29, 2010 11:45 PM GMT
    i do not believe that the OP has responded to inquiries about whether he purchases shoes and clothes made in sweat shops, food produced via processes brutal to animals and the environment, his tax dollars which fund the US military machine and non-recyclable items purchased that ultimately degrade the environment that the next generation will be inheriting.

    and you want to talk about pot? gimme a fucking break
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    Hunter9 saidi do not believe that the OP has responded to inquiries about whether he purchases shoes and clothes made in sweat shops, food produced via processes brutal to animals and the environment, his tax dollars which fund the US military machine and non-recyclable items purchased that ultimately degrade the environment that the next generation will be inheriting.

    and you want to talk about pot? gimme a fucking break


    So fucking true.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:53 PM GMT
    The government COULD legalize it then tax the hell out of it and make some serious $$ , but the govt. would much rather see the money go to criminals so they can spend even more money finding the criminals and taking them down. Just so new ones can pop up the next week because the market will always be there.
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    Aug 29, 2010 11:54 PM GMT
    BlackLabSD said
    So you know how thousands of people have died as part of the war on drugs and what not, and cartels do horrible things to people, as we've seen on the news of things going on in Mexico. (Think of mass graves and mutilated bodies)


    With all due respect, I think you're confusing the cannabis market with the cocaine market.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 30, 2010 12:01 AM GMT
    BlackLabSD said
    Pyrotech saidMany places in the US grow pot as well. There are several places where it is legally (with prescription) grown and sold. I doubt you'd see a mass grave over "turf wars" from locally grown pot. Perhaps laws should be changed so that marijuana is legal to those over 21, much like alcohol.

    The next question becomes: Do you drive a car, thus supporting wars in countries over the oil that is manufactured to provide you with gasoline?



    I see, this makes sense if legalized. I do drive a car, its necessary to live and work. And me driving a car plays a role in those wars and harming the environment. So that takes us back to my question. Do peeps who buy it from cartel folk, (indirectly I guess) acknowledge their roll in the negative and brutal things that are related to it.
    Would you deny a dying cancer patient marijuana?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 30, 2010 12:02 AM GMT
    I was watching a show on TV, not sure what it was called. But it was on a narcotics take down and they had helicopters flying around and a wave of officers in this jungle region... Anyway, I was waiting for them to like raid a huge cocaine farm or something and they had all that crap for about 12 marijuana plants.... I was like... are you serious? what a waste of tax dollars.