Polls: 1/5 Americans think Obama is a non-American-born Muslim...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 30, 2010 5:03 PM GMT
    Not counting for sample size here... but if this is really how 20% of voting Americans really think... this may bode ill for our Republic.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38914715#38914715

    I for one think that it shouldn't be much of an issue for the White House to make a public record of Obama's "long form" birth certificate, put it up for 15 minutes of public scrutiny just to settle the issue of Obama's American citizenship to beyond a shadow of any doubt.
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    Aug 30, 2010 5:37 PM GMT
    alphatrigger saidNot counting for sample size here... but if this is really how 20% of voting Americans really think... this may bode ill for our Republic.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38914715#38914715

    I for one think that it shouldn't be much of an issue for the White House to make a public record of Obama's "long form" birth certificate, put it up for 15 minutes of public scrutiny just to settle the issue of Obama's American citizenship to beyond a shadow of any doubt.


    This sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.
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    Aug 30, 2010 5:56 PM GMT
    Glenn Beck should be proud. This is his handiwork.
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    Aug 30, 2010 6:04 PM GMT
    alphatrigger saidNot counting for sample size here... but if this is really how 20% of voting Americans really think... this may bode ill for our Republic.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38914715#38914715

    I for one think that it shouldn't be much of an issue for the White House to make a public record of Obama's "long form" birth certificate, put it up for 15 minutes of public scrutiny just to settle the issue of Obama's American citizenship to beyond a shadow of any doubt.


    Because he has shown the legal documents required. Because both republicans and democrats have vouched for the legality of the documents presented. Because there is no rational, reasonable, legal reason for him to produce anything else. Because - seriously - only fools think that anything else needs to be done here and those fools are influenced by really, really bad people.
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    Aug 30, 2010 6:06 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    I've harboured some thoughts that suffrage should be qualified on either one of two things:

    - a four-year degree from an accredited university or college

    - two years of service in the military or public service (need not be with the federal government, could be with a volunteer organization like the Red Cross, etc)

    I don't think it would be constitutional at this point in our history, however. That, and I have the misfortune of knowing some rather over-educated people who aren't as wise as their credentials would indicate.

    It's a broken world... so we go to make the best of it icon_wink.gif
  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    Aug 30, 2010 6:13 PM GMT
    alphatrigger said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    I've harboured some thoughts that suffrage should be qualified on either one of two things:

    - a four-year degree from an accredited university or college

    - two years of service in the military or public service (need not be with the federal government, could be with a volunteer organization like the Red Cross, etc)

    I don't think it would be constitutional at this point in our history, however. That, and I have the misfortune of knowing some rather over-educated people who aren't as wise as their credentials would indicate.

    It's a broken world... so we go to make the best of it icon_wink.gif




    I think that is a great idea.
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    Aug 30, 2010 6:16 PM GMT
    viveutvivas saidAren't these the same people who years ago wanted to change the law so that Schwarzenegger could run for president?

    I think the law should be changed. Currently, naturalized citizens are not full citizens - we are second class citizens because of that amendment.


    I concur.

    This law has its roots in the very early history of the Republic, when there were concerns over British nationals (and less likely, French nationals who were in league with the various elements of the French Revolution) who lived in North America at potentially gaining the Presidency, and therefore (potentially) threatening America's newly won independence.

    This had a little bit of foresight by the Founding Fathers, in that during their lifetime (through about the mid-1810s for the youngest group of Founders) the Presidency was mostly held by wealthy male plantation owners who knew each other somewhat well.

    It would also cover (to a degree) the changing balance of powers in Europe later on, through at least the 1830-1840s.

    There was somewhat less certainty for people of status born *during* the revolution, who were not natural born citizens as of the founding of the Republic (1776, who would be of age of eligibility for the Presidency in 1816) well after most of the older Founders had passed away.

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    Aug 30, 2010 6:16 PM GMT
    mcwclewis said
    alphatrigger said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    I've harboured some thoughts that suffrage should be qualified on either one of two things:

    - a four-year degree from an accredited university or college

    - two years of service in the military or public service (need not be with the federal government, could be with a volunteer organization like the Red Cross, etc)

    I don't think it would be constitutional at this point in our history, however. That, and I have the misfortune of knowing some rather over-educated people who aren't as wise as their credentials would indicate.

    It's a broken world... so we go to make the best of it icon_wink.gif




    I think that is a great idea.


    I think even better would be a test to show a basic understanding of history, of facts about this country (NOT a xtian nation, etc.), of the definitions of different terms (starting with socialism, republic, democracy.)

    Given what the right wing is doing with rewriting history in school textbooks and how much they benefit from winding people up with lies, I don't give this any chance of happening.
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    Aug 30, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    bigtallman saidI think even better would be a test to show a basic understanding of history, of facts about this country (NOT a xtian nation, etc.), of the definitions of different terms (starting with socialism, republic, democracy.)


    Interesting.

    My thought is that according to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, along with other writings of the Founders - is that the United States were not explicitly founded AS a Christian nation (the language acknowledges a Creator, but never really defines the person of the Creator, and as far as the Constitution goes, is not mentioned outside of the preamble)

    The culture of the time in Colonial America through the early 1800s (especially in the Mid-Atlantic States/New England which held significant cultural sway) was heavily influenced by a mix Christianity, and some Enlightenment/Rationalist thinking (Voltaire, Swift, Locke, etc).

    It is noteworthy that at various times in the 18th and early 19th centuries, there were a few attempts to amend the Constitution, especially the Preamble, to explicitly name Jesus Christ as the Creator/God and/or as the fount of our rights and independence.

    I hate to cite Wikipedia, but it provides a few points of interest on the subject:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_amendment

    For better or worse, these attempts fell far short of their goal, never even receiving Congressional votes.
  • rock_e_horror

    Posts: 52

    Aug 30, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    I personally couldn't care less if he just jumped off the boat yesterday and landed the presidency. Balance the freakin' budget, pull out of the bullshit wars were in, end D.A.D.T., and give me ALL the rights I'm allowed as a U.S. citizen.

    I'm supportive of him in some areas, critical in others. I really don't care where our leaders come from as long as they keep in mind (and few really seem to) this government is supposed to be "...of the people, by the people, and for the people."

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    Aug 30, 2010 6:35 PM GMT
    Remember when Rev. Wright was a liability for Obama?

    There seems to be an increasing accepted formulation that black = Muslim. We, as a country, are really doing our best to show what a xenophobic, ignorant people we are.
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    Aug 30, 2010 7:03 PM GMT
    PLEASE... Just do the job we hired you to do. I understand that it's very unrealistic to expect change in only 18 months of being in office. We have the next 18 months to really see what kind of leader Oboma is. The president is in my opinion a puppet that chooses his own masters. Sometimes they pick the wrong puppet masters and we end up with a president like GW. I hope that President Oboma will be able to rise above the political rhetoric and be a strong president. The world is watching and the question of his birth right is only there to confuse issues and redirect our citizens off the real impotent topics. We as Americans should stand unified but instead we bicker and complain and nothing is getting done. One Nation Under God, Have we lost sight of what we stand for. Freedom of the people. Read the Constitution sometime and you will be impressed with how much our founding fathers loved this country. This was a long answer to a short question but ... does it really matter where you where borne and what religion you believe in. I think not! A man is measured by his actions and nothing else.
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    Aug 30, 2010 7:47 PM GMT
    When this whole birth certificate nonsense started long ago, my mother opined that surely the Bush government and the CIA and FBI wouldn't be so stupid as to allow a non citizen of the US to run for President. Those three entities would have stopped such a thing in its tracks.

    -Doug
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 30, 2010 11:11 PM GMT
    From a Washington Post article today
    Rather than faulting the public for the weaknesses of human psychology, we should identify the elites who deceive citizens with false information and hold them accountable for their role in fostering this myth. It's time to stop blaming the victims.

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    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQVsc4nmv_pqwwDjYkMLKA
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    Aug 31, 2010 12:13 AM GMT
    alphatrigger said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    I've harboured some thoughts that suffrage should be qualified on either one of two things:

    - a four-year degree from an accredited university or college

    - two years of service in the military or public service (need not be with the federal government, could be with a volunteer organization like the Red Cross, etc)

    I don't think it would be constitutional at this point in our history, however. That, and I have the misfortune of knowing some rather over-educated people who aren't as wise as their credentials would indicate.

    It's a broken world... so we go to make the best of it icon_wink.gif


    Hmmm, what about those too poor for college or too poor to afford to give any time too volunteer.

    Only the rich would be able to vote.
  • yankeesblazer...

    Posts: 243

    Aug 31, 2010 12:52 AM GMT
    For the people who still believe Obama was born outside of the United States, I don't know what to tell them.

    I have seen the birth announcement and birth certificate as shown on live television. On a prime time FOX News program. It shows he was born in Hawaii on the day he says he was. The "birther" story should be put to bed, right alongside the "9/11 Truth" story. Move on, people. He was born in Hawaii, which makes him a United States citizen eligible for the Presidency.
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    Aug 31, 2010 1:00 AM GMT
    OtterJoq saidGlenn Beck should be proud. This is his handiwork.

    Don't give him all the credit. Other right-wing commentators like Limbaugh have helped, and the Republican Party has been pulling strings behind the scenes. Anything to make Obama fail, the country be damned.
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    Aug 31, 2010 1:16 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    OtterJoq saidGlenn Beck should be proud. This is his handiwork.

    Don't give him all the credit. Other right-wing commentators like Limbaugh have helped, and the Republican Party has been pulling strings behind the scenes. Anything to make Obama fail, the country be damned.


    Agreed.

    Many thanks.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 31, 2010 1:26 AM GMT
    The more you tell them the facts, the more they deny them. It's like kids and you telling them the benefits of eating their veggies:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1090172
  • yankeesblazer...

    Posts: 243

    Aug 31, 2010 1:30 AM GMT
    bigtallman said
    mcwclewis said
    alphatrigger said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    I've harboured some thoughts that suffrage should be qualified on either one of two things:

    - a four-year degree from an accredited university or college

    - two years of service in the military or public service (need not be with the federal government, could be with a volunteer organization like the Red Cross, etc)

    I don't think it would be constitutional at this point in our history, however. That, and I have the misfortune of knowing some rather over-educated people who aren't as wise as their credentials would indicate.

    It's a broken world... so we go to make the best of it icon_wink.gif




    I think that is a great idea.


    I think even better would be a test to show a basic understanding of history, of facts about this country (NOT a xtian nation, etc.), of the definitions of different terms (starting with socialism, republic, democracy.)

    Given what the right wing is doing with rewriting history in school textbooks and how much they benefit from winding people up with lies, I don't give this any chance of happening.


    I like your idea of making sure people are at least informed of what is going on, but it's just not enforceable. However, it's not fair to imply that the only misinformed ones vote Republican. Do a basic Google search for videos in which Obama voters are asked about random issues that nearly anybody who turned on a TV for the prior 2 years would know about. Questions were asked such as "If Obama wins, are you comfortable with Sarah Palin becoming Vice President?" The answers are amazingly sad..."Yeah totally comfortable, I think she would do a great job."

    Other questions are "do you support Obama's position that the troops should stay in Iraq indefinitely, until the job is done?" Again, the answers were "yeah I support his position." "Do you support Obama's pro-life position?" Same responses. It went on and on. Uninformed voters are dangerous, this is true. But I just get tired of people implying that the only ones who are misinformed/uninformed are Republicans.
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    Aug 31, 2010 1:52 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidNot counting for sample size here... but if this is really how 20% of voting Americans really think... this may bode ill for our Republic.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/38914715#38914715

    I for one think that it shouldn't be much of an issue for the White House to make a public record of Obama's "long form" birth certificate, put it up for 15 minutes of public scrutiny just to settle the issue of Obama's American citizenship to beyond a shadow of any doubt.


    According to tradition, religion is patriarchal and passed down through the father. So traditionally yes Obama was born a Muslim and is still a Muslim according to the Muslim faith. Despite the fact that he renounced Islam and accept Jesus as the Lord and his savior, many Muslims believe that he is still Muslim especially by blood. This is true. So I don't think 20% of Americans are that far fetched.

    Either way I don't care if Obama is a Muslim or a Christian.
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    Aug 31, 2010 1:53 AM GMT
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    There's merit to this 20%. Muslim blood is passed down through the father, and many Muslims in fact believe that Obama is a Muslim regardless of whether he renounces his Muslim faith. Either way I don't care. He's better than Bush.
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    Aug 31, 2010 2:10 AM GMT
    JB82 said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    There's merit to this 20%. Muslim blood is passed down through the father, and many Muslims in fact believe that Obama is a Muslim regardless of whether he renounces his Muslim faith. Either way I don't care. He's better than Bush.


    Soooo if 40% of Christians believe we are all child raping axe murders does it mean they are right?
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Aug 31, 2010 2:20 AM GMT
    "You have to be taught to hate."
    I believe that the 20% figure is rooted in racism, more than anything else. A lot of people like to think that we're past that. But, obviously, we're not. Those people don't honestly believe that Obama's not an American citizen. And, they don't honestly believe that he's a Muslim. They're just only too happy to hop onto the bandwagon, because they were taught that black people were not as good as white people. So, how could they possibly accept a black (1/2 black) man as our president ?
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Aug 31, 2010 2:22 AM GMT
    JB82 said
    Lostboy saidThis sort of figure, were it to be true, would be a strong argument against full democracy. Some people are too dumb to be allowed to vote.


    There's merit to this 20%. Muslim blood is passed down through the father, and many Muslims in fact believe that Obama is a Muslim regardless of whether he renounces his Muslim faith. Either way I don't care. He's better than Bush.




    Is Baptist blood passed down through the father ?