Billionaire Brothers Waging War Against Obama

  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Aug 30, 2010 11:18 PM GMT

    Covert Operations

    http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
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    Aug 31, 2010 5:10 AM GMT
    "in political circles, their ideological network is known as the Kochtopus."

    brilliant! sounds like a gay james bond movie
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    Aug 31, 2010 5:21 AM GMT
    Sadly what they're doing is working. Obama's poll numbers are down--along with all Democrats--and Republicans are showing real gains with voters.
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    Aug 31, 2010 5:48 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidSadly what they're doing is working. Obama's poll numbers are down--along with all Democrats--and Republicans are showing real gains with voters.


    Yes, and that has nothing to do with how bad the economy is for most people, the massive spending bills, the level of unemployment, his handling of the spill, his administration's continued attempts to use race to taint his critics, all the lovely easter eggs in the new healthcare bill, and the list goes on... icon_rolleyes.gif (I note further, that for clarification, Cato who is funded in part by the Koch brothers is strongly against both interventions in the Middle East and has consistently been against them).

    Further it is a mistake to believe that just because you're not in favor of Democrats you'd automatically be in favor of Republicans (who haven't been in favor of spending control - look at who those buffoons in the leadership supported for various nominations). Neither party deserves to lead but it's worse with both Congress and the Executive being one party. I think there was a study that suggested though that the economy performs the best when Congress is controlled by Republicans and the Executive is run by a Democrat.

    Sheesh. Read most of the article and intend to read the rest of it later, but it seemed highly sensationalized. Of course, it doesn't document what Christian thought re: forcing out one of the brothers cuz he was gay.

    Though for anyone who is interested in business, you might want to check out their book "The Science of Success" which is pretty impressive and where Charles Koch candidly talks about his evolving approach to how he has managed things including some of his big mistakes when it came to dealing with regulatory and political bodies (they really weren't always as politically minded). http://www.amazon.com/Science-Success-Market-Based-Management-Largest/dp/0470139889
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    Aug 31, 2010 6:08 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidYes, and that has nothing to do with how bad the economy is for most people, the massive spending bills, the level of unemployment, his handling of the spill, his administration's continued attempts to use race to taint his critics, all the lovely easter eggs in the new healthcare bill, and the list goes on...(I note further, that for clarification, Cato who is funded in part by the Koch brothers is strongly against both interventions in the Middle East and has consistently been against them).


    The massive spending bills? You mean the one spending bill (stimulus) with 30% of its "spending" going to tax cuts for the wealthy. The other (TARP) was signed by Bush--hell, everyone--before Obama took office. Still another (Health Insurance Reform) that reduces the deficit (when it goes into effect). Yes, massive spending bills, the kind Libertarians like yourself and the Koch brothers like to decry. Nice try.

    Again, the message is getting through. Too bad it's not accurate.

    About racism: so nobody has been calling Obama a secret Muslim, and nobody's been saying he secretly hates white people? Really, the Administration has a problem with racism? They've actually been the opposite--hyperreactive--to the race issue, going out of their way (Shirley Sherrod) to cater to the Breitbarts of the media. Thanks for the completely out-of-touch, throwaway line from Opposite Land.

    You, the Koch brothers and I are in agreement about the wars. Nothing about them is bringing our economy any relief, nor is it providing security for our country. It is making some contractors immensely rich. That's it. As Bush said (and it looks like Obama agrees) "Money trumps, er, um, peace."

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    Aug 31, 2010 6:21 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    riddler78 saidYes, and that has nothing to do with how bad the economy is for most people, the massive spending bills, the level of unemployment, his handling of the spill, his administration's continued attempts to use race to taint his critics, all the lovely easter eggs in the new healthcare bill, and the list goes on...(I note further, that for clarification, Cato who is funded in part by the Koch brothers is strongly against both interventions in the Middle East and has consistently been against them).


    The massive spending bills? You mean the one spending bill (stimulus) with 30% of its "spending" going to tax cuts for the wealthy. The other (TARP) was signed by Bush--hell, everyone--before Obama took office. Still another (Health Insurance Reform) that reduces the deficit (when it goes into effect). Yes, massive spending bills, the kind Libertarians like yourself and the Koch brothers like to decry. Nice try.

    Again, the message is getting through. Too bad it's not accurate.

    About racism: so nobody has been calling Obama a secret Muslim, and nobody's been saying he secretly hates white people? Really, the Administration has a problem with racism? They've actually been the opposite--hyperreactive--to the race issue, going out of their way (Shirley Sherrod) to cater to the Breitbarts of the media. Thanks for the completely out-of-touch, throwaway line from Opposite Land.

    You, the Koch brothers and I are in agreement about the wars. Nothing about them is bringing our economy any relief, nor is it providing security for our country. It is making some contractors immensely rich. That's it. As Bush said (and it looks like Obama agrees) "Money trumps, er, um, peace."



    Wow - I have a bridge (and or swamp land) to sell you if you honestly believe that the Healthcare bill will reduce spending. Particularly since even the Administration doesn't believe that it will in the short term. As for spending I suggest you actually bother to I dunno, read the CBO reports or even the Administration's reports about deficit spending after Obama took office. Now we hear rumours of significant mortgage relief to those who overborrowed with subprime - penalizing those who have been more conservative with their finances.

    Have a bother to look at how the Administration and the NAACP treated Shirley Sherrod. Breitbart pulled video from a NAACP event - you'd think that they would have looked at what she said (which was hardly innocuous in itself - and her response was definitely race baiting and unwarranted as even Anderson Cooper inferred) before they threw her under the bus.

    Right. As for racism, as a libertarian - I don't care what the color of your skin is - nor does Cato or the think tanks that the Koch brothers support. Incidentally insofar as it comes to wars, peace is far more valuable given the markets that are created.
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    Aug 31, 2010 7:03 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidSadly what they're doing is working. Obama's poll numbers are down--along with all Democrats--and Republicans are showing real gains with voters.


    I'm pretty sure Fox News and other conservative commentators on talk radio are helping to drag his poll numbers down. I think conservatives are a lot better at motivating their base than liberals--they're not afraid to use scare tactics (though liberals use them less skillfully).

    Talk to a staunch conservative about Obama and you'll probably get regurgitated talking-points from Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, InGraham, Beck, Palin, Gingrich, etc.
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    Aug 31, 2010 7:44 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidWow - I have a bridge (and or swamp land) to sell you if you honestly believe that the Healthcare bill will reduce spending. Particularly since even the Administration doesn't believe that it will in the short term. As for spending I suggest you actually bother to I dunno, read the CBO reports or even the Administration's reports about deficit spending after Obama took office. Now we hear rumours of significant mortgage relief to those who overborrowed with subprime - penalizing those who have been more conservative with their finances.


    OK, the CBO, who you refer to above as an, I'm inferring, authority on Obama's deficit spending, is not the same CBO who said that the healthcare bill would decrease the deficit? In the long term. I'm certain no claims were made about "the short term."

    And I'm sorry, I find your arguments a bit all over the place. Again, when was the Administration race baiting?
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    Aug 31, 2010 8:45 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    riddler78 saidYes, and that has nothing to do with how bad the economy is for most people, the massive spending bills, the level of unemployment, his handling of the spill, his administration's continued attempts to use race to taint his critics, all the lovely easter eggs in the new healthcare bill, and the list goes on...(I note further, that for clarification, Cato who is funded in part by the Koch brothers is strongly against both interventions in the Middle East and has consistently been against them).


    The massive spending bills? You mean the one spending bill (stimulus) with 30% of its "spending" going to tax cuts for the wealthy. The other (TARP) was signed by Bush--hell, everyone--before Obama took office. Still another (Health Insurance Reform) that reduces the deficit (when it goes into effect). Yes, massive spending bills, the kind Libertarians like yourself and the Koch brothers like to decry. Nice try.

    Again, the message is getting through. Too bad it's not accurate.

    About racism: so nobody has been calling Obama a secret Muslim, and nobody's been saying he secretly hates white people? Really, the Administration has a problem with racism? They've actually been the opposite--hyperreactive--to the race issue, going out of their way (Shirley Sherrod) to cater to the Breitbarts of the media. Thanks for the completely out-of-touch, throwaway line from Opposite Land.

    You, the Koch brothers and I are in agreement about the wars. Nothing about them is bringing our economy any relief, nor is it providing security for our country. It is making some contractors immensely rich. That's it. As Bush said (and it looks like Obama agrees) "Money trumps, er, um, peace."



    After all the stimulus money, how are you liking the 1.6% growth in GDP and unemployment at 9.6% ? I could have swore this was supposed to be the "Recovery Summer".
    GDPaveraged 2.3%/yr under Bush. Unemployment averaged 5.2%, the same as under Clinton.
    http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/3http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/30/news/economy/gdp/index.htm0/news/economy/

    Healthcare? How do you add 32 million uninsured people and save money?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/health/policy/22health.html
    How do you cut $500 billion from Medicare still provide the same level of coverage and save money?
    http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052970203517304574303903498159292.html
    How does it save money when the Chief Medicare Actuary says the"Cost estimates are Unsustainable" ?
    http://www.redstate.com/jeffdunetz/2010/08/07/bull-st-medicare-actuary-says-administrations-obamacare-cost-estimates-are-unsustainable/

    Raceism? You forgot the Henry Louis Gates incident? How about the dismissal of The New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation? What about 20 years in Jeremiah Wrights church?
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0709/Obama_Cambridge_police_acted_stupidly.html
    http://blog.heritage.org/2010/07/21/the-new-black-panther-party-evidence-on-voter-intimidation/
    http://www.acton.org/pub/commentary/2008/04/02/marxist-roots-black-liberation-theology

    As for Miss Sherod, she should be no one's poster child. Are you aware that just before her 2009 appointment she recieved notice of about a $13 million settlement , the largest awarded as well as $150,000. for each her and her husband, in the reopening of the Pigford v Glickman case. Maybe you wern't aware of the article that Ron Wilkins, a black civil rights activist in the 70s wrote for the far left CounterPunch magazine. Wilkins describs how the Sherods managed "New Communities Farms";

    • Paying farm workers as little as 67¢ per hour, far below minimum wage for the era.
    • Employing underage children to perform hard labor.
    • Compelling their employees to work in unsafe conditions, including getting sprayed with pesticides.
    • Firing any workers who acted as whistleblowers.
    • Forcing employees to work overtime in the fields at night with practically no advance notice.
    • Having a capricious payscale under which employees doing the exact same jobs were paid different amounts according to the whims of the managers.
    • Being unwilling to address the abuse even after it was raised by union representatives.
    • Seriously mismanaging the farm to such an extent that it went bankrupt.

    The same description is born out by a 1974 edition od the United Farm Workers news paper.
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/Examiner-Opinion-Zone/Shirley-Sherrods-Disappearing-Act-Not-So-Fast-98846149.html

    http://www.counterpunch.org/wilkins08022010.html

    http://www.farmworkermovement.org/ufwarchives/elmalcriado/1974/No.%209%20September%2028,%201974.pdf

    http://www.nationalcenter.org/NewCommunitiesElMalcriado092874.pdf

    Maybe there was a reason the Administration wanted to get rid of her quickly.


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    Aug 31, 2010 4:51 PM GMT
    shybuffguy saidAfter all the stimulus money, how are you liking the 1.6% growth in GDP and unemployment at 9.6% ? I could have swore this was supposed to be the "Recovery Summer".
    GDPaveraged 2.3%/yr under Bush. Unemployment averaged 5.2%, the same as under Clinton.

    As you could infer from my posts above, the stimulus wasn't enough. Paul Krugman, Nobel Laureate, agrees. Don't try to paint me as a spendthrift idiot. The stimulus was a big handout to fucking tax cuts, which do not stimulate the economy. Bush's tax cuts, mid-term, did nothing for the economy.

    shybuffguy saidHealthcare? How do you add 32 million uninsured people and save money?...How do you cut $500 billion from Medicare still provide the same level of coverage and save money?

    This is an insane argument. The healthcare bill hasn't gone into effect yet, with the exception of closing the loophole on prescription drugs for seniors, which has been saving THEM money. And, the 32 million uninsured will be getting private fucking insurance. NO PUBLIC OPTION was added. Do you think I don't fucking read?

    shybuffguy saidRaceism? You forgot the Henry Louis Gates incident? How about the dismissal of The New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation? What about 20 years in Jeremiah Wrights church?

    More hyped up bullshit by Fox, the Heritage Foundation and Politico. Henry Louis Gates is a college professor, arrested at his fucking house for being "uncooperative" with the police. How is this the Administration's racism? Oh yeah, Obama said the arresting cop was an idiot. Good stretch, calling him a racist or race-baiter on this one. Any non-right-wing sources here?

    The New Black Panther party has exactly two members. Their "voter intimidation" was handled by police. Not exactly a stellar movement. This story was completely hyped by Fox News. Every other actual news agency knew to dismiss it as background noise. Not funded by some national party, nor were they working for some government office or agency. Are you insinuating that these two yutzes are worthy of Federal prosecution? What kind of money-wasting bullshit is that? Nice try.

    And Jeremiah Wright? Again, nice try. I'm not scared of him. Why are you?

    shybuffguy saidAs for Miss Sherod, she should be no one's poster child. Are you aware that just before her 2009 appointment she recieved notice of about a $13 million settlement , the largest awarded as well as $150,000. for each her and her husband, in the reopening of the Pigford v Glickman case. Maybe you wern't aware of the article that Ron Wilkins, a black civil rights activist in the 70s wrote for the far left CounterPunch magazine. Wilkins describs how the Sherods managed "New Communities Farms"...Maybe there was a reason the Administration wanted to get rid of her quickly.

    Maybe, but from what you're insinuating (really--you brought up a farm paper from 1974?), race wasn't the issue then, right? Breitbart didn't scoop this story, he made up some bullshit about her being racist, and THAT made the Fox News website (and O'Reilly's program).

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    Aug 31, 2010 5:11 PM GMT
    NPR featured the Koch family last week also. You can read or listen here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129425186
    I hated that Koch industries acquired Georgia Pacific here in Atlanta. I had heard at the time the company was conservative, but I had no idea how far the family went.
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    Sep 02, 2010 1:03 PM GMT
    I agree with peterstrong: It's the same old GOP retaliation, yet even uglier this time around. While I do believe that both "sides of the aisle" have moderates that are willing to work together on most issues, it's the extreme right-wing conservatives that "perpetuates the hate".
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    Sep 04, 2010 3:20 AM GMT
    As it turns out the reality is that there was nothing covert, pro corporate, or deliberately self interested on behalf of the Kochs as this legal blog points out:

    http://volokh.com/2010/09/02/errors-in-jane-mayers-new-yorker-article-attacking-the-kochs/

    More from Instapundit (http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/105634/):
    The thing to understand is, this article isn’t about the Kochs at all. It’s about preparing a narrative for the New Yorker’s readers about why Obama has failed. It’s not because they were rubes who voted for an underprepared, under-skilled candidate who then proceeded to alienate the electorate. It’s because Obama was beaten by a right-wing billionaires’ conspiracy so vast as to defy understanding. That’s all. Relax, New Yorker readers. No need to feel bad about yourself for being overwhelmed with hope-and-change fever and voting stupidly. It’s not your fault. It never is!
    Sounds about right to me.
  • metta

    Posts: 39118

    Sep 04, 2010 9:46 PM GMT

    Bid to suspend California global-warming law gets $1 million from billionaire brothers' firm


    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-prop-23-koch-20100904,0,969078.story