Kidney stones

  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 08, 2010 5:59 PM GMT
    For the last year, I have been getting a stone once a month. I have another one now and it has only been 3 weeks and 3 days since the last one. They are getting more frequent. My doctor had me stop taking protein powder; try to determine if that is causing it. I haven't had protein powder in a little over a month. I drink at least 8 glasses of water a day. Has anyone heard of anything else that causes them? It is really getting me depressed. Right now I am in pretty bad pain. It keeps me from working out for anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks depending on how long it takes to pass. Last time it took two weeks. After a couple days I went back to the gym but I spent most of the time in the bathroom. Anyway I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
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    Sep 08, 2010 6:23 PM GMT
    I have only heard of cranberries as a possible help. Fresh cranberry season starts in October.

    http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=145

    "Prevention of Kidney Stone Formation

    Cranberries contain quinic acid, an acidic compound that is unusual in that it is not broken down in the body but is excreted unchanged in the urine. The presence of quinic acid causes the urine to become just slightly acidic-a level of acidity that is, however, sufficient to prevent calcium and phosphate ions from joining to form insoluble stones. In patients who have had recurrent kidney stones, cranberry juice has been shown to reduce the amount of ionized calcium in their urine by more than 50%-a highly protective effect since in the U.S., 75-85% of kidney stones are composed of calcium salts.

    In one recent study evaluating the effect of cranberry juice on kidney stone formation, study subjects were divided into two groups, one of which drank 2 cups of cranberry juice diluted with 6 cups water each day for 2 weeks, while the other group drank tap water for the same period. After a 2 week period in which neither group drank any cranberry juice, the groups were switched, so that those who had drunk cranberry juice drank only tap water, while those who had drunk tap water consumed 2 cups cranberry juice diluted with 6 cups tap water daily for an additional 2 weeks. In both groups, drinking cranberry juice was found to significantly and uniquely alter three key urinary risk factors for the better: oxalate and phosphate excretion decreased; citrate excretion increased; and the relative supersaturation of calcium oxalate was significantly lower.

    In another trial that evaluated the influence of cranberry, plum and blackcurrant juice on urinary stone risk factors, cranberry juice decreased the urinary pH (made the urine more acidic), and increased the excretion of oxalic acid and the relative supersaturation for uric acid. The researchers concluded that cranberry juice could be useful in the treatment of brushite (calcium) and struvite (non-calcium) stones as well as urinary tract infection."
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    Sep 08, 2010 6:33 PM GMT
    Cranberries also have anti-viral properties:

    "Cranberries' Potent Anti-Viral Activity

    Long recognized as an effective treatment for urinary tract infections, cranberry juice's benefits have now been shown to also extend to protection against viruses.

    When researchers exposed three diverse viral species (the bacteriophages T2 and T4 of E. coli C and B, respectively, and the simian enteric virus, rotavirus SA-11) to commercially available cranberry juice (Ocean Spray), all were completely neutralized.

    Cranberry juice's anti-viral action was rapid, dose-dependent (a 20% juice suspension was needed to stop simian rotovirus from binding to the surface of cells) and unaffected by temperature (T4 was completely inactivated at four or 23 degrees Celsius, which is unusual since lower temperature is typically associated with lesser viral "kill"). While not nearly as potent as cranberry juice, orange and grapefruit juices reduced the viral infectivity of T2 and T4 to 25-35% of the control, respectively. Phytomedicine. 2007 Jan;14(1):23-30."
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    Sep 08, 2010 8:59 PM GMT
    I understand that there are several different types of kidney stones and that doctors want you to try to "capture" your stones so they can be examined so that the doc can guide you on what types of foods to avoid. Capturing the stone involves straining all of your urine through a fine sieve. Has your doc requested this of you?
  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    Sep 08, 2010 9:51 PM GMT
    Ditto ^

    Your doctor should be having you strain your urine and sending the stones out for analysis, getting test results for your particular stones so that he can determine their makeup in order to guide your diet.

    If he's not doing this, get a better urologist, now. Random dietary restrictions will tell you nothing. It's taking a blind stab that feels more 19th century than 21st.

    Also, he should be testing your adrenal system, doing a KUB to see if you're developing stones now, .....the list of labs and tests he should be conducting before he does random dietary restrictions is pretty long. The frequency of stone production that you're talking about requires some aggressive tactics, and having you stop using protein powder is hardly the answer. Even if it works - what in the pre-digested powdered protein you're using is triggering this in your system, and why?

    Dude, really, think about another doc.
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 09, 2010 2:08 AM GMT
    Thanks guys, I talked to my doctor and he is sending me to a specialist.
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    Sep 09, 2010 2:12 AM GMT
    Geoedward saidThanks guys, I talked to my doctor and he is sending me to a specialist.

    You've had them for a year and he is JUST sending you to one? icon_eek.gif
    Change physician asap.

    Also...
    Sorry to hear that- my father had some and he was in excruciating pain for a while- hope it all works out for you!
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    Sep 09, 2010 2:29 AM GMT
    Geoedward saidThanks guys, I talked to my doctor and he is sending me to a specialist.

    Do you realize how much that sounds like "Oh thanks for the info, but I dont care anymore cuz I am going to a specialist."
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 09, 2010 4:14 PM GMT
    Sorry, I didn't mean it that way. After reading the respones I called him and told him I wanted to do whatever test there were. I also read him what everyone said. I really appreciate all of your input. You guys mean a lot to me and that is why I sent the e-mail. icon_smile.gif

  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 09, 2010 5:08 PM GMT
    Thanks winstonguy!
    This has been building up for years. It used to be a got them once or twice a year. Like you the first one sent me to emergency. It went on like this for a few years. I just chalked it up to heredity. Seems everyone in my family gets them. This year has been weird. It started every couple of months but for the last 4 or 5 months it has been about every 3 weeks. I drink a lot of water and do what the doc says. I ended up in the hospital again about two months ago because the pain was so bad. That time as the emergency doctor put it, I was giving birth to twins. Anyway, took the RJ guys advice and called my doctor. I told him I wanted to see a specialist and I wanted every test possible. He just called me back. I have an appointment at the Urologic Surgical Center tomorrow at 8AM. Wish me luck! Thanks again for your response. George
  • MisterT

    Posts: 1272

    Sep 09, 2010 5:26 PM GMT
    They sure aren't fun. When I got one years ago, my doctor sent me to a specialist first thing. Mine was too big to come out by itself, they had to do lithotripsy. Then I had complications and they ended up having to go in and remove the pieces. 3days/2 nights in hospital and big bills later, I was fine. I haven't had anymore since, knock on wood.

    Mine was a calcium stone. I still drink a lot of milk, but more water, and juice. Cran-raspberry, with vodka icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 09, 2010 5:30 PM GMT
    Sorry you're having to put up with this. I'm glad you will now be looked after by a specialist. Hopefully, he will be able to give you some ideas for getting fewer stones and maybe for making the ones you get less awful. Best of luck. Keep us posted.
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 09, 2010 5:55 PM GMT
    Wow, MisterT,
    I can't imagine not being able to pass it and then having to go through what you did. Yikes! I am glad you haven't gotten them anymore. Keep up with the cran-raspberry, with vodka.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Sep 09, 2010 5:56 PM GMT
    Ugh, hereditary medical problems! I was adopted as an infant and know nothing about my biological parents' medical histories. I am a healthy 22 year old now but I wonder what medical problems I may be predisposed to in the future: kidney stones, heart disease, cancer?
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 09, 2010 6:04 PM GMT
    flieslikeabea, Thanks, I will let you know what I find out!

    fastfreddie, As you said, you are young and healthy. It won't do you any good to worry about it, if you have no access to your birth family history. Just know that if you feel something is different or you think something is wrong get it checked out. You know your body, listen to it. icon_smile.gif No Worries!
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Sep 09, 2010 7:26 PM GMT
    hypocitraturea

    I'm assuming, from the rate, that these are calcium oxalate stones.

    Some doctors don't think it causes kidney stones, but the ones up to date on research do.

    It means you secrete too much citrate, which makes your kidneys too acidic. This reduced pH decreases solubility and causes calcium-oxalate to precipitate out.

    Because of the nature of the issue, it causes many small stones to form rather than only the large debilitating ones.

    Get the doctor to run a 24 hour urine and check for high levels of citrate excretion. He can then put you on potassium citrate which raises the pH and increases the solubility quotient.

    Once that's done (not before or you could throw off the numbers) you can also start adding citrate and citric acid to your diet. Lemons are your new best friends. Stay away from chocolate, coffee, dark sodas, spinach, and rhubarb (things with lots of oxalates).
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Sep 09, 2010 7:27 PM GMT
    P.S. you NEED to see specialist. Urologist or Nephrologist. It's a specialized organ with a lot of extra considerations.

    This needs to be dealt with, all those stones (and the small ones and "sand" that are likely causing pain in between the major ones) are scarring your ureters which can cause major problems in the future.
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 10, 2010 5:23 PM GMT
    Hi DiverScience,
    You are right on the money. They are calcium oxalate stones.
    We have been trying to run the 24 hour urine check but my doctor said I have to not have a stone for at least 4 weeks. The longest I have gone is 3 week and 3 days. I went to the Urologist today. He was very upset that I hadn’t been sent to him a long time ago. I am going for a cat scan this Tuesday morning. The last one I had was May. It showed stones on both sides. He said we will take a look to see if they are still there or have gotten bigger and pieces are breaking off. Either way they have to be treated. I can't wait until it is over. I will do anything to not get them again. I was checking out the things I have to stop eating. Most of it is easy because I don't eat it anyway. I will have to give up my big one (chocolate and peanuts)
    I eat a lot of peanut butter. Yikes, I mean I used to eat a lot of peanut butter. LOL It also says grapes, apples, green peppers and sweet potatoes. This is the only thing I like as far as everything on the list. I was eating about 4 Tablespoons of peanut butter, a big handful of mixed nuts, 2 apples, and grapes a day. I am always sneaking in chocolate. I am a chocolate freak. (Was) I will have to work on better things to snack on during the day.
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    Sep 11, 2010 12:07 AM GMT

    V glad that your kidney stones seem now to be getting looked at seriously. Hang in there !

    If you haven't already tried it, maybe you could consider replacing peanut butter with almond butter or cashew butter (assuming those are less problematic when it comes to kidney stones). Also, could you try carob in place of chocolate?
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 11, 2010 12:20 AM GMT
    Thanks flieslikeabea, I will try them.
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 16, 2010 1:07 AM GMT
    Hey guys, Just wanted to let you know, I finally passed it. I had my cat scan Tuesday. So now I have to wait to see what the next step is. Thank you all for your advice and your thoughts. As always, You guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Sep 16, 2010 2:14 AM GMT
    http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/kidney_stones.html
    http://www.myhealthblog.org/2010/01/09/persistent-kidney-stones-cure-testimonial-on-raw-paleo-diet/
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Sep 16, 2010 2:18 AM GMT
    Mousey, Thanks for the info. I will check it out.
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    Sep 16, 2010 2:22 AM GMT
    Seems like a lot of people recommend lemon juice mixed in water to wash it out, the citric acid in lemon prevents a stone from forming based on what I googled.
  • Geoedward

    Posts: 657

    Oct 21, 2010 6:24 PM GMT
    I just wanted to update everyone and to thank you for your advice.
    I am stone free as of Tuesday 10/19. When I originally posted this I found out from the specialist that I had two stones on my left side. One was 8 millimeters and the other was 6 millimeters. Both were too big to pass. The 8 millimeter was lodged in my kidney and the other was in my blatter. They had to go in through my prick to get them out. The pain afterward was worth it. I haven't felt this good for a long time. I will be back to the Gym on Monday. I will continue seeing the urologist so that we can make sure this doesn’t happen again. Thanks again guys for all of you thought and suggestions. You guys really do rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!icon_biggrin.gif