"Health care politics run into economic reality"-MSNBC

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 11, 2010 3:32 AM GMT
    Some important quotes from the article:

    "So far, the law he signed earlier this year hasn't had the desired effect. An analysis from Medicare's Office of the Actuary this week said that the nation's health care tab will go up — not down — through 2019 as a result of Obama's sweeping law, though the increase is modest." Will be go from 17% now to 20% in 2018.

    "OBAMA: Said he never expected to extend insurance coverage to an additional 31 million people "for free." He added that "we've made huge progress" if medical inflation could be brought down to the level of overall inflation, or somewhere slightly above that.

    THE FACTS: Those claims may be supported in the fine print of the plan he pitched to Congress and a skeptical public months ago. But they were rarely heard back then. "My proposal would bring down the cost of health care for millions — families, businesses and the federal government," he declared in March."

    "OBAMA: "We took every idea out there about how to reduce or at least slow the costs of health care over time."

    THE FACTS: One idea that most experts believe would do the most to control health costs — directly taxing health benefits — was missing in Obama's plan. Opposition from unions and others was too great, and Obama himself had campaigned against the idea.

    Some of the major cost controllers that did make it into the law — including a tax on high-value insurance plans — don't start until 2018."
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39107994/ns/politics-white_house
  • CSPYNY

    Posts: 187

    Sep 11, 2010 3:35 AM GMT
    Seems to me like this was the complete opposite of what we wanted. We wanted a single payer system where the Government is the main authority in it.

    Not some half a55'd system that is a giant payout to the private insurance companies and, not only glorifies them, but penalizes people if they don't sign up for it.

    Just goes to show, 0bama is a total tool for the unions and money shuffling organizations; banks and insurance companies.
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    Sep 11, 2010 3:45 AM GMT
    I'm not sure you can say he's a tool for the companies. He compromised too much, and ended up with a plan that leaves something to be desired. Really now, who would have voted to increase taxes? The bill would have failed.

    The question is should Obama be commended for increasing health care access to "millions" for just a 3% increase?

    Although blame is easy to assign to his vulnerable office, can he be really be at fault in the political gridlock of Washington for not being able to stimulate a recovery even he admitted was "painfully slow" and a health plan that failed to do it's job?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 11, 2010 3:59 AM GMT
    Um, I thought the whole thing about the health care bill was that it was going to be phased in slowly (without disrupting the system) and that savings were going to come from better prevention, lower administration costs, and improved fraud detection. What is more attractive to me as an individual is that part where they made refunding premiums to individuals mandatory (a new requirement that insurance companies spend 85% of the money they collect in premiums on medical care or refund money to policyholders).

    Of course, some insurance companies will try to game the system and increase their premiums upwards of 20%:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704644404575482213099258430.html
    A senior Senate Democrat is asking leaders in that chamber to revive stalled legislation that would give the federal government the power to reject unreasonable rate increases. "Unless we take action, we can expect health-insurance companies to inflate premium rates as much as possible between now and 2014 when health insurance exchanges go into effect," California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said.


    I just get reminded of Adam Smith's saying every day:
    "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices."

    The major problem which nobody can solve, short of something like the British NICE, is the technological progress of medical science and the unreasonable resources we devote to such progress which make only a minor extension of life. (E.g. the recent vaccine against melanoma cells which extends life for a few months at an exorbitant cost to the system)
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 11, 2010 5:51 AM GMT
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  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 11, 2010 8:13 PM GMT
    I can't wait for January 2, 2011, when the Republicans take over both houses of Congress, and we can sit back and relax in the comfort that all 535 of them will be shitting miracles out of their asses, every 5 minutes, 7 days a week.

    Just think !

    --No more pesky Social Security ! Grandpa can work 'til he dies !
    --No Medicare ! Grandma can DIE from whatever ails her !
    --No taxes !
    --All healthcare will be repealed ! If you get sick, it will be your own damn fault. And, it will be up to you to either get well on your own, or DIE !
    --Now, that we're finished with Iraq, we can invade another country. Let's see. Which one ?
    --The deficit will magically disappear !
    --Less government ? Why, they'll do away with it all together (except for their own jobs at the trough).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 12, 2010 3:38 AM GMT
    Webster, do you support this health plan because it is Democratic?
    What specifically do you like about it? Aside from that it will "provide access to millions more" and that Republicans couldn't come up with anything better.
  • commoncoll

    Posts: 1222

    Sep 12, 2010 4:10 AM GMT
    carmineastoria said
    Although blame is easy to assign to his vulnerable office, can he be really be at fault in the political gridlock of Washington for not being able to stimulate a recovery even he admitted was "painfully slow" and a health plan that failed to do it's job?

    These are problems going beyond party lines. No single Republican or Democrat can fix these. I can understand Obama was the knight on the white horse, or people thought he was, but the American economy took almost a decade to reach this stagnation. You, yourself, have made this point in several other posts.

    As for the health care, once coverage begins, people are not going to care. When 48% of the people don't pay income taxes, it is free, isn't it?
    southbeach1500 said
    I find it interesting that many of the usual outspoke liberals on here have avoided this topic. They are online and viewing this forum... they're currently spamming one of my topics running in this forum.

    I, too, am wondering about this. Is Webster the only brave one?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 12, 2010 11:31 PM GMT
    I forgot to add the link to the original article. icon_redface.gif
    I added it right now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 13, 2010 12:32 AM GMT
    I guess I don't see the big deal. I never thought we were going to expand coverage to 30 million+ Americans and have it cost less.

    And Obama's claims are probably far more truthful than the following Republican claims:

    "Tax cuts for wealth people spur job growth."

    "Mission accomplished."

    "The free market is infallible."

    "Al Qaeda hates us for our freedom."

    "Fannie Mae et al caused the economic crisis."

    I could keep going...

    That aside, the administration faced enormous pressure from the right to exclude the public option or single payer, both of which would have brought down costs, and could only get the tax on "Cadillac" plans past the labor and middle class groups by phasing it in later.

    That's why single-payer with an option for private insurance would have been the best policy.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 13, 2010 3:11 AM GMT
    carmineastoria saidWebster, do you support this health plan because it is Democratic?
    What specifically do you like about it? Aside from that it will "provide access to millions more" and that Republicans couldn't come up with anything better.





    I can almost say that I don't support the healthcare plan at all. Except for a few bones thrown to the American public (like not being denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition), the entire thing was a sell out to the big insurance companies. And, forcing everybody to buy into the sham, is outrageous. The "Public Option" was the only good (and fair) answer.

    But, all the limp noodle Democrats gave the Republicans every concession they asked for, in the hope of persuading them to get on board. But, as I recall, not one of them got on board, even after all the concessions. So, the Democrats should have shoved their original plan (with a "Public Option") through, with no concessions.

    Access to healthcare is not the problem. One way or another, everybody has access to healthcare. Paying for it is the problem. And, big insurance companies have turned it into a hugely profit making business, where, if most Americans ever have a serious illness, they'll go bankrupt trying to pay their medical bills, even though they HAVE health insurance.

    It's a crime.


  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 13, 2010 3:16 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidFirst, thank you for posting this topic.

    It's interesting that those (very few) of us on here during the whole health care debate were saying that the government isn't going to be able to bring down costs at all.... and the very few of us on here who also say that most things the government meddles with turns into crap.... We are the ones who are constantly attacked on here.

    So, who's fault is this that the healthcare law will drive costs up instead of down as we were promised by Obama, Pelosi, Reid and every other Democrat in Congress?

    You can't blame Obama only. You can't blame only the Congress. It's the Democrats in power in Washington DC that caused this.

    But it's ok for most gay guys... because the Democrats keep saying they support the gays.... And the Democrats keep saying that if gays vote Republican, then the Republicans will put them in concentration camps.

    Wake up already!



    house-democrats-health-plan.jpg?w=510&h=


    P.S.
    I find it interesting that many of the usual outspoke liberals on here have avoided this topic. They are online and viewing this forum... they're currently spamming one of my topics running in this forum.





    You're a fuckin' liar.
    The reason we didn't get real healthcare / health insurance reform, was because the damn Republicans are whores for the big insurance companies which bribed the Republicans to do everything in their power to prevent any competition.

    The Republicans succeeded in scrapping the "Public Option" which would have given the American people a choice. The Republicans and the big insurance companies wanted Americans to have NO choice but to be FORCED to buy their usurious product. And, that's what we got: screwed.