Gay Candidate leads in Irish Presidential election.

  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Sep 14, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
    the election is not until next year but initial polls show that Senator David Norris (an openly gay politician) is in the lead.
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    Sep 14, 2010 5:12 PM GMT
    That must be driving the Catholic Church wild. I suppose they'll be preaching against his candidacy from the pulpits. Ireland doesn't have provisions regarding separation of church & state, does it, like the US previously did before the Bush Administration?
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Sep 14, 2010 5:52 PM GMT
    I have not heard of any person or group criticising his candidacy on the grounds of his sexuality but the Catholic church (along with most other churches) will prob chime in in due course.
    i was watching an interview with the very vivacious and quite flamboyant Senator and was won over, I think he will (if elected) make a great president. He was actually the first openly gay person to be elected to a political office (in the world- although its important to note that senators in ireland are elected by university students and alumni, and not by popular vote)
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    Sep 14, 2010 6:04 PM GMT
    The Preamble of Ireland's Constitution:

    "In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred,
    We, the people of √Čire,
    Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,
    Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation,
    And seeking to promote the common good, with due observance of Prudence, Justice and Charity, so that the dignity and freedom of the individual may be assured, true social order attained, the unity of our country restored, and concord established with other nations,
    Do hereby adopt, enact, and give to ourselves this Constitution."

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    Sep 14, 2010 6:16 PM GMT
    Illuz saidHumbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial, Gratefully remembering their heroic and unremitting struggle to regain the rightful independence of our Nation...

    But this is also a political statement, is it not? Enacted in 1937 to replace the Irish Free State of 1922, the context was the continuing issues with Protestant Northern Ireland, British control, and the COE. I believe in practice modern Ireland has become more secular. But I invite our Irish friends to enlighten us, as my own Irish connection is merely generational, a descendant on my maternal grandmother's side to the Potato Famine Irish who came to the US in the 1850s.
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    Sep 14, 2010 6:21 PM GMT
    Ireland also recently enacted new laws against Blasphemy. Based on the Preamble and Blasphemy Laws I serious doubt that Ireland completely keeps church and state separate.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122225249

    I'll have to wait and see how much his initial lead holds once the Catholic church really starts getting invovled.
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    Sep 14, 2010 6:26 PM GMT
    I wouldn't exactly consider Blasphemy laws "secular"!
  • leixguy

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    Sep 14, 2010 6:28 PM GMT
    Most people were either livid with the new law, or they found it ullterly hilarious and it certainly will not be enforced!
    You shouldn't presume to know what the Catholic church will say and what kind of influence it has here!
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    Sep 14, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    Illuz saidI'll have to wait and see how much his initial lead holds once the Catholic church really starts getting invovled.

    Hence my first post here. I would expect the Catholic Church to mobilize against him as the election approaches.

    Although one of the usual Catholic slams against gays, that we are all child molesters, will probably not play well at the present time in Ireland. Even though the Church has tried to present all their pedophile priests as being gay, that doesn't explain those who were abusing little girls.

    Nor explain why the Church covered it up, and enabled these molesters to continue, if they were breaking both civil and Church laws. It's a toxic topic best left unspoken, if the Irish Catholic Church knows what's good for it.
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    Sep 14, 2010 6:39 PM GMT
    I know that the Catholic Church often mobilizes and pushes for anti-gay agendas. Just about every time Civil Same-sex marriages comes up in any country - there is the Catholic church opposing it and attempting to block it.
    We will just have to wait and see how the Catholic Church reacts to this Irish Gay Politician - especially once the election gets closer.
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    Sep 14, 2010 7:01 PM GMT
    leixguy saidMost people were either livid with the new law, or they found it ullterly hilarious and it certainly will not be enforced!
    You shouldn't presume to know what the Catholic church will say and what kind of influence it has here!


    The issue with "not enforced" laws is that it only takes some to decide to enforce such laws. As an example, until a few years ago several U.S. States had sodomy laws which "were not enforced" until a cop in Texas decided to enforce the law and arrested a gay couple. The case eventually went to the Supreme court striking down all Sodomy laws in the US. If the law isn't meant to be enforced then there is absolutely no reason to have it on the books.
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    Sep 14, 2010 7:26 PM GMT
    Great news. Wonder where he stands on the political spectrum with policies.
  • leixguy

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    Sep 14, 2010 7:29 PM GMT
    he is left wing, he is very involved with human rights campaigns (and especially gay rights), campaigns against israeli policies in Gaza and stuff like that.
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    Sep 14, 2010 8:10 PM GMT
    leixguy saidhe is left wing, he is very involved with human rights campaigns (and especially gay rights), campaigns against israeli policies in Gaza and stuff like that.


    Well that's a disappointment. The human rights/gay rights sounds good, but if he isn't economically liberal then I wouldn't be a fan.
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Sep 14, 2010 8:22 PM GMT
    the Presidency in ireland, is a symbolic role (as is the caser in most countries) they have no say in the day to day running of the country so economic issues do not come into it.