Global Gay Community and Personal Perspective

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    Sep 18, 2010 3:57 PM GMT
    For the past while, mostly since Prop 8 (I do after all live in Utah, which helped fund the hatred), I've felt sick and tired of how gay rights are discussed as some sort of binary "hot topic" issue. Has anyone else felt the same?

    Two things have kept me grounded. One, is the great work that is being done to win, defend, and protect our rights. Two, is putting things into a global perspective. While the U.S. isn't a shining beacon of progress like the Netherlands, Spain, and others, it's also not Russia or pockets of Africa.

    However, I'm reading a book which discusses media portrayal in the Middle East, and the differences between ideologies of governments of some of these countries and the people. It also talks a lot about censorship, and how many people there yearn for social networks like we have.

    It leads me to ask the following questions: Is media portrayal in our country accurate on gay issues? Is media accurate in other countries like Russia, Africa, or even finland, Netherlands, and Spain? I also wonder, what's it like in the countries we don't hear from? Anyone from Iraq, Afghanistan, Bolivia, Pakistan, and others have insight?

    One last thought, is anyone interested in using this resource to share ideas about politics and global perspectives?
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    Sep 18, 2010 10:07 PM GMT
    Hey, welcome to RJ!

    I kinda agree with you. It used to bother me to have gay issues be the über-controversial topic for a while; it even felt kind of personal, like people voicing their unsolicited opinions about my life… until I realized that a great part of that annoyance of mine was really in my perception. It might be about me in the general, but not in the particular. Gay issues will be news for some years to come, but it is mostly because gay people are still the “other” and the process of becoming just another part of the mainstream is noteworthy in this case (it took literally millennia for western society to come to this point) and resisted by the traditionally minded folk. The media will always love a interesting story, and if they can spice it up to controversial, all the better for them.

    Here in Mexico, I think gay issues are mostly invisible. That can be good and/or bad depending on the perspective: we do struggle to have committed people and politicians to our cause and get a lot of raised eyebrows in the process, but when we do and it shows (SSM in Mexico City, Supreme Court Rulings, etc.) it is very difficult for the traditionalists to arouse any passion against us… Mexicans are mostly live and let live on social issues: there is criticism and disapproval in many areas of society but people mostly keep it to themselves or at most gossip about you… but going to an anti-gay rally or calling their senator… haha, no way. And no, is not just political apathy, there had been very attented anti-crime anti-narco rallies and events (Now, that's a REAL problem, most people here would tell you).

    BTW, the perspective of an utter outsider of Utah right now: promising.

    Countries with mostly Catholic populations are becoming warmer to the idea of gay rights because people already disproves so much of many teachings of the Catholic Church about human sexuality. But the Catholic Church authorities will NEVER EVER endorse any kind of gay right (antidiscrimination rights or couple rights, whatever) because to them gay people don’t exist, only defective straight people. The LDS Church endorsing the anti discriminations laws in, of all places, Utah is really, really big and remember that, unlike most other churches, the LDS have an open ongoing revelation.

    By the way... 500th post! Yaaaaay!
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    Sep 19, 2010 4:03 AM GMT
    The netherlands is not even close to a beacon of progress for gays. While many european countries may currently, according to popular opinion, be in favor of gay rights and gay marriage, their ideas of "openness" and "progress" have become counterproductive because they are simultaneously overly accepting of values and ideologies (which will increase according to immigrant population growth) which inherently despise the gay lifestyle so that in less than 100 years those countries will be completely intolerant and hateful towards the ideas currently embraced with acceptance and freedom.
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    Sep 19, 2010 4:56 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThe netherlands is not even close to a beacon of progress for gays. While many european countries may currently, according to popular opinion, be in favor of gay rights and gay marriage, their ideas of "openness" and "progress" have become counterproductive because they are simultaneously overly accepting of values and ideologies (which will increase according to immigrant population growth) which inherently despise the gay lifestyle so that in less than 100 years those countries will be completely intolerant and hateful towards the the ideas currently embraced with acceptance and freedom.


    Wow. I wonder whatever "values and ideologist" you could be referring to? Islam, maybe? At least put your big boy pants on and say what you mean. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Sep 19, 2010 5:06 AM GMT
    maybe you should put on your on big boy pants and get your citation right (he said values and ideologies, not values and ideolgist), but hey, have another drink . . .

    as for your lame attempt at pc certitude, do you embrace those who would kill you? if you do, you deserve annihilation. . .
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    Sep 19, 2010 1:43 PM GMT
    Engenieer,

    You wrote :

    "The LDS Church endorsing the anti discriminations laws in, of all places, Utah is really, really big and remember that, unlike most other churches, the LDS have an open ongoing revelation."

    This is a great point. Keep in mind though that, while the LDS church backed the anti-discrimination act, they added the caveat that they only backed it if would have the right to terminate, or evict anyone that is gay.

    That is very interesting about Mexico though. You hear very little, except for what is going on in Mexico City. I've wondered what the social climate is like on the issue in other areas. I hear that places like Guadalajara are more open then most other areas.

    Utah has a very interesting attitude towards gays. Salt Lake has one of the largest gay populations in the state. However, we have one of the least amounts of services per capita. Also, the attitude under the last prophet of the LDS church (religious leader, Gordon B. Hinkley) was one of acceptance, or at least tolerance. That has backtracked since the new prophet (Monson) has become prophet. Unfortunately, the pendulum swings both ways.
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    Sep 19, 2010 1:57 PM GMT
    noren saidmaybe you should put on your on big boy pants and get your citation right (he said values and ideologies, not values and ideolgist), but hey, have another drink . . .

    as for your lame attempt at pc certitude, do you embrace those who would kill you? if you do, you deserve annihilation. . .


    The majority of Muslims don't want to kill Americans. It's like saying all Germans hate Jews. It's ridiculous and playing into the hands of those who want to scare the American people into voting for regressive policies.
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    Sep 19, 2010 1:58 PM GMT
    I'm disturbed in several ways from the latest posts. That's why I would like to suggest several norms.

    1. Everyone has a right to their opinion, even if they're wrong (I hope you at least cracked a smile).

    2. No personal attacks, or slander (ie. attacking someone's grammar, or suggesting that they are under the influence of something. Let's all remember how many years it took for society to understand that gays are not pedophiles, rapists, or mentally insane).

    3. No blanket statements concerning an entire group. (We should no more accuse all muslims of being terrorists than they should accuse all gays of being drug addicts, alcoholics, and sex addicts).

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    Sep 19, 2010 2:31 PM GMT
    budfb38 said
    3. No blanket statements concerning an entire group. (We should no more accuse all muslims of being terrorists than they should accuse all gays of being drug addicts, alcoholics, and sex addicts).


    You mean that we should try to draw more of these Venn diagrams (at least mentally) before making blanket statements:
    muslimsvdiagram.jpg
    ConservativeVen.jpg
    VennConservatismrealb.jpg&t=1
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    Sep 19, 2010 3:54 PM GMT
    And good luck with trying to get civility on an elementary school playground, as somebody put it:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1100407

    All the more power to you if you can do it.
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    Sep 19, 2010 4:10 PM GMT
    Hell it's worth a shot right? It is interesting to note that a forum about how the world perceives gays quickly turned to a forum about how people hate muslims. The counter reaction was equally interesting.

    But if we are going to divert I would like to bring attention to this:

    http://www.alan.com/2010/05/19/florida-mosque-bombed-possible-domestic-terrorism/

    Now if this were a christian church we would have heard about it. But did anyone else hear about this?

    However, I would like to get back to the original post as much as possible. Anyone have any insight on what it's like to be muslim and gay?
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    Sep 19, 2010 5:01 PM GMT
    Um, the silence is deafening.