Senate fails in effort to repeal 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 21, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39286687/ns/politics-capitol_hill?GT1=43001

    WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans on Tuesday blocked legislation that would have repealed the law banning gays from serving openly in the military.
    The partisan vote was a defeat for Senate Democrats and gay rights advocates, who saw the bill as their last chance before November's elections to overturn the law known as "don't ask, don't tell."
    With the 56-43 vote, Democrats fell short of the 60 votes needed to advance the legislation. It also would have authorized $726 billion in defense spending including a pay raise for troops.
    Senate Democrats attached the repeal provision to the defense bill in the hopes that Republicans would hesitate to vote against legislation that included popular defense programs. But GOP legislators opposed the bill anyway, thwarting a key part of the Democrats' legislative agenda.
    Now, gay rights advocates say they worry they have lost a crucial opportunity to change the law. If Democrats lose seats in the upcoming elections this fall, repealing the ban could prove even more difficult — if not impossible — next year.
    "The whole thing is a political train wreck," said Richard Socarides, a former White House adviser on gay rights during the Clinton administration.
    Socarides said President Barack Obama "badly miscalculated" the Pentagon's support for repeal, while Democrats made only a "token effort" to advance the bill.

    "If it was a priority for the Democratic leadership, they would get a clean vote on this," he said.
    Democratic Sens. Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor of Arkansas sided with Republicans to block the bill. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., also voted against the measure as a procedural tactic. Under Senate rules, casting his vote with the majority of the Senate enables him to revive the bill at a later date if he wants.
    Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine had been seen as the crucial 60th vote because she supports overturning the military ban. But Collins agreed with her GOP colleagues that Republicans weren't given sufficient chance to offer amendments.
    Reid allowed Republicans the opportunity to offer only one amendment to address GOP objections on the military's policy on gays.
    Collins said she planned to vote against advancing the bill unless Democrats agreed to extend debate so that her colleagues could weigh in on other issues.
    Jim Manley, a spokesman for Reid, said the senator would be willing to allow more debate on the bill after the November elections.
    "Today's vote isn't about arcane Senate procedures," Manley said. "It's about a GOP's pattern of obstructing debate on policies important to the American people."
    An estimated 13,000 people have been discharged under the law since its inception in 1993. Although most dismissals have resulted from gay service members outing themselves, gay rights' groups say it has been used by vindictive co-workers to drum out troops who never made their sexuality an issue.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 21, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    I put fault squarely on Obama on this one. Remember the snide comment that came from the White House against progressives for trying to defeat Blanche Lincoln the day after she won the primary run-off election? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/09/blanche-lincoln-win-spark_n_605443.html)



    yeah.



    It's time to leave the Democratic Party.
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    Sep 21, 2010 9:34 PM GMT
    However you cut it, it was Democrats who brought this vote and Republicans who defeated it. Any gay man who supports the Republican Party ought to hang his head in shame.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 21, 2010 9:47 PM GMT
    I'll never be a Republican. And remember, there are other options than the D and R parties.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 21, 2010 9:48 PM GMT
    Mil8 saidHowever you cut it, it was Democrats who brought this vote and Republicans who defeated it. Any gay man who supports the Republican Party ought to hang his head in shame.



    Notice how I highlighted the term "token effort" in the story. I'm sick and tired of being taken for granted. It's an insult to our rights and common decency.
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    Sep 21, 2010 10:10 PM GMT
    I looooovvvveeeeee the way gay conservatives are trying to spin this, absolutely hilarious.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 21, 2010 10:14 PM GMT
    Freedom will not come
    Today, this year
    Nor ever
    Through compromise and fear.

    I have as much right
    As the other fellow has
    To stand
    On my two feet
    And own the land.

    I tire so of hearing people say,
    Let things take their course.
    Tomorrow is another day.
    I do not need my freedom when I'm dead.
    I cannot live on tomorrow's bread.

    Freedom
    Is a strong seed
    Planted
    In a great need.
    I live here, too.
    I want freedom
    Just as you.

    ~Langston Hughes 1943
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    Sep 21, 2010 10:24 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidI looooovvvveeeeee the way gay conservatives are trying to spin this, absolutely hilarious.


    Yeah this is a clear black and white case. There are no exceptions, gradations, nuances, outliers, etc, to this incident. It is a solid fact that in the Senate right now Democrat = repeal DADT, Republican = accept DADT. I don't know how anyone could confuse this blatant partisan.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 21, 2010 10:30 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidI'll never be a Republican. And remember, there are other options than the D and R parties.


    Not in this Democratic Republic
    We are entrenched in a 2 Party system where a vote in a sympathetic party to either the democrats or republicans winds up to be a vote for the opposition party

    .... no matter how you cut it - it always works out that way
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Sep 22, 2010 5:07 AM GMT
    Some of you don't get it. It's not always about ideology. It is not always about where people stand on an issue. I get it that Republicans are categorically opposed to gay rights. But the problem we gays face in America is a lack of political will and leadership. Obama is the party leader. He has failed. Senator Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. He has failed. When you are elected with a sizable control of the Legislature and you still cannot get things done right or even half-right, these leaders become part of the problem. And it is the same old, tired song and dance about the Democratic party. We need leaders, not platform speakers that resonate well!
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 22, 2010 10:37 AM GMT
    I whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment
    but as a practical matter working in the framework of our political climate
    it's an us against them situation

    If you wanna see ANY positive steps right now
    and you don't want to see years of work taken away
    Then you need to realize that giving ANY power to the republican party will see those rights either taken away
    or stopped dead in their tracks

    To them you and all of us are the poster boys of what's wrong in America
    We have a target on our backs to the GOP
  • BeingThePhoen...

    Posts: 1157

    Sep 22, 2010 3:47 PM GMT
    GQjock saidI whole-heartedly agree with your sentiment
    but as a practical matter working in the framework of our political climate
    it's an us against them situation

    If you wanna see ANY positive steps right now
    and you don't want to see years of work taken away
    Then you need to realize that giving ANY power to the republican party will see those rights either taken away
    or stopped dead in their tracks

    To them you and all of us are the poster boys of what's wrong in America
    We have a target on our backs to the GOP

    The GOP are going to be taking Senate seats. Thats a no brainer, and the Dem. Party is solely responsible for that. They had the power and they sat on it. If the Dems can't run this country and get their initiatives passed, then they either need to stand up do work for a change, or pass it off to someone who can.

    I once had HOPE for the Obama Administration, but that is quickly flying right out the window. If Obama can't get his shit together, he won't see a second term.
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    Sep 22, 2010 4:55 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidI looooovvvveeeeee the way gay conservatives are trying to spin this, absolutely hilarious.


    Yeah this is a clear black and white case. There are no exceptions, gradations, nuances, outliers, etc, to this incident. It is a solid fact that in the Senate right now Democrat = repeal DADT, Republican = accept DADT. I don't know how anyone could confuse this blatant partisan.


    Not black and white at all. It appears true, according to a number of sources, that the bill included a path to amnesty for 2 million illegals through the "dream act". That is reason enough to mean that this vote was not necessarily based on DADT.
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    Sep 22, 2010 5:40 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    JAKEBENSON said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidI looooovvvveeeeee the way gay conservatives are trying to spin this, absolutely hilarious.


    Yeah this is a clear black and white case. There are no exceptions, gradations, nuances, outliers, etc, to this incident. It is a solid fact that in the Senate right now Democrat = repeal DADT, Republican = accept DADT. I don't know how anyone could confuse this blatant partisan.


    Not black and white at all. It appears true, according to a number of sources, that the bill included amnesty for 2 million illegals then that is reason enough to mean that this vote was not necessarily based on DADT.


    You do know the DREAM act was an amendment previously on this bill right?

    And it still got passed so yea just stop, thats a straw man defense if I've ever seen one.
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    Sep 22, 2010 6:12 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidAnd it still got passed so yea just stop, thats a straw man defense if I've ever seen one.


    What got passed?????


    I just explained it in my previous post.
  • rioriz

    Posts: 1056

    Sep 22, 2010 6:24 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidSome of you don't get it. It's not always about ideology. It is not always about where people stand on an issue. I get it that Republicans are categorically opposed to gay rights. But the problem we gays face in America is a lack of political will and leadership. Obama is the party leader. He has failed. Senator Reid is the Senate Majority Leader. He has failed. When you are elected with a sizable control of the Legislature and you still cannot get things done right or even half-right, these leaders become part of the problem. And it is the same old, tired song and dance about the Democratic party. We need leaders, not platform speakers that resonate well!


    Best statement so far! So many people refuse to see that the blame falls on the leadership ALWAYS. Remember the Blame Bush campaign that the administrations still tries to use to this day. Well not everything that went wrong in the country was caused directly by Bush but it was over his watch so he gets the blame. Same goes to Obama and his minions. He overplayed his hand by large and is unable to come through with so many promises.

    Harry Reid's and the rest of this administrations issue was that he they were too strong in pushing policy after policy that overwhelmed the American people. This has given power to the right in opposing the administration because most of their moves have been largely unpopular. The nail in the coffin was Reid's lame attempt at the Dream bill that was tied partly into the DADT vote. It has been so easy for the Senate to pile on the anti Reid sentiment and just oppose anything he tries to introduce.

    DADT needs to be repealed but with so many other issues taking precedence in the Country I do not see it being touched for quite some time now.

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    Sep 22, 2010 6:29 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidAnd it still got passed so yea just stop, thats a straw man defense if I've ever seen one.


    What got passed?????


    I just explained it in my previous post.


    The DREAM act did not pass yesterday's vote.



    I was talking previosuly, I was wrong however but the history of it is kind of interesting.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2007

    It's gone through many name changes.
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    Sep 22, 2010 7:04 PM GMT
    riorizHarry Reid's and the rest of this administrations issue was that he they were too strong in pushing policy after policy that overwhelmed the American people. This has given power to the right in opposing the administration because most of their moves have been largely unpopular.

    Ditto for the health care reform.

    You might say it's a matter of indigestion and portion size...not an uncommon problem in this country with obesity and waste.
  • BeingThePhoen...

    Posts: 1157

    Sep 23, 2010 4:40 AM GMT
    These dumb-ass Dems had to know that this was going to fail. The amnesty crap was enough to ensure that the Reps would fight it tooth and nail. Did the Dems want this to fail?

    As if DADT weren't enough to piss in the Reps cheerios, lets throw in Amnesty for good measure...really? It seems odd to me that this would be thrown in. Am I over thinking this?