Why The Divide

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 21, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    This has been something I have wanted to post about for a very long time, but never got around to it.

    Why do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight? I am all for gay lib. But it shouldn't be gay lib for a specific group of people. It is my understanding research has shown sexuality to be fluid....everyone falling on a spectrum somewhere between two opposites.


    It just seems really divisive to me that in this day and age, the emphasis is on winning rights for a "special group of people" who don't even really exist. It should be on changing societies CONCEPT of sexuality as a whole...those concepts are deeply engrained. Stop thinking either or, people! Be tolerant and accepting..no problems then.
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    Sep 21, 2010 11:20 PM GMT
    I like to engage physically with members of my own sex.

    homo=same

    sexual= sex

    Therefore I am...homosexual.

    What was your post about again?
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    Sep 21, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
    You ever REALLY listen to a group of people in an office or social setting? The hetero men and women are always talking about their 'husbands' or 'women' or if they are single who they are dating or wanting to screw. Same is true of an all gay setting. Sexuality is a huge part of our lives and many gay men and women have had to repress it for various cultural and religious reasons.

    Denying your sexuality is just another way of hiding it. We have gender and we have sexual orientation. It's vital, important and constant force in our lives.

    I am attracted to men of my own sex
    I have sex with them (well now only my husband by happy choice)

    My favorite laugh is when one of my gay friends tells me they are str8 acting and no one would ever suspect (Gurl drives a Miata and carries a murse) nope I could never tell.

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    Sep 21, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Yes, sexuality is fluid for "most" people, but not for everyone.
    Unfortunately, 100% acceptance of anything other than 100% straight will never exist.
    Because of that, we must fight to have laws that tell the haters to STFU and let us be.
  • hdurdinr

    Posts: 699

    Sep 22, 2010 12:22 AM GMT
    I disagree with Paul as I see a growing trend amongst my 'straight' friends for acknowledging if a guy is sexy or attractive and even admitting to fooling around with other guys or at least contemplating it - the fact that they can even mention it definitely seems a step forward. Until this summer I lived in Florence, Italy for ages which is filled with loads of US students and I saw a definite progression amongst the guys I'd chat to in the gym. At the beginning they would mostly stop talking to me once they found out I was 'gay' but it soon grew to be mostly a non-issue. I find a lot of girls sexy and given the right situation and person I could definitely 'seal the deal' as it were icon_wink.gif - I too hate being labeled as 'gay' sexuality is far too complicated to label people into three boxes.....
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Sep 22, 2010 12:38 AM GMT
    I tend to agree with the OP.

    It is interesting to me that a number of recently self-outed gays seem to prefer to parade the label. Not all mind you, but some.

    It is also interesting to me that a lot of younger straight guys couldn't give a damn either way.

    Further, the only straight guys pf any age whom I have seen going around proclaiming their straight identity seem to be pretty insecure.

    I wonder if there are cases...
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    Sep 22, 2010 12:47 AM GMT
    some good points by the OP, but unfortunately life is not that simple. Yes there are areas in some people's lives where it makes no difference as to your sexual orientation and affects your life in zero ways. On the flip side, however, are the engrained patterns of society which has chosen to exclude people from certain employment and rights based on that orientation.

    My employment was directly affected then, and now that I am retired from the work force, i would tend to agree with your points, but there is still a need to move towards neutral attitudes when it comes to sexual orientation, much the same as women and blacks in the workplace have struggled for. When this comes about, then i don't imagine it WILL be a point anyone cares about....the key word being WHEN......keithicon_cool.gif
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    Sep 22, 2010 12:51 AM GMT
    You will find it is a lot of the gay libs who love to hang the gay label the most, even if "Bisexual" belongs instead.

    I was born many thing like a "white, blond indiguness True Blue Aussie"; the real thing and not some cheap import. I was also born male and not female. I am man before gay.

    So my sexuality does not define me as a whole, thus you see no rainbow flags flying around me.
  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    Sep 22, 2010 12:54 AM GMT
    Human beings learn from birth to separate things into binaries. Male/female black/white straight/gay on/off in/out etc. etc. etc.

    I understand completely what you're saying but its an EXTREMELY difficult concept to actually get people to subscribe to.
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    Sep 22, 2010 1:01 AM GMT
    aunty_jack saidI was born many thing like a "white, blond indiguness True Blue Aussie"; the real thing and not some cheap import.



    If there is any justice in the world, a nice non-English speaking Vietnamese family will move in next door to you. You had better watch your kitty.
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    Sep 22, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    "You ever REALLY listen to a group of people in an office or social setting? The hetero men and women are always talking about their 'husbands' or 'women' or if they are single who they are dating or wanting to screw. Same is true of an all gay setting. Sexuality is a huge part of our lives and many gay men and women have had to repress it for various cultural and religious reasons."

    "some good points by the OP, but unfortunately life is not that simple. Yes there are areas in some people's lives where it makes no difference as to your sexual orientation and affects your life in zero ways. On the flip side, however, are the engrained patterns of society which has chosen to exclude people from certain employment and rights based on that orientation."



    That's exactly my point. It's not that we need more division, more polarity already in how we think. It's not that "we" need to go off in our own corner and talk about our "own relationships"....further polarizing the social construct. The basic concepts of us vs. them needs to be eliminated. More energy needs to be spent trying to meld, literally sink the concept into societies psyche to be okay with the spectrum of sexuality - rather than convince them there is this special group, apart from them...who is so very different from them (further driving a fence where there need not be one). Anyone who thinks there is a fine category difference is deluding themselves; consciously or unconsciously..most of it is unconscious. It's not pollyana - there is no us and them. We are everyone. It should get to a point where we can rid ourselves as enlightened societies of homophobia and therefore have no need for a barrier, eliminating the need for a special group with 'special rights'. Everytime we do something for 'ourselves' to give our own group rights, we reinforce the idea that we NEED a group in the first place. Before the late 1800's the terms homosexual and heterosexual didn't even exist. People didn't used to think that way. Because it is repressed and not socially accepted - people feel the need to bond in groups and assert their identity. Eliminate the repression - you eliminate the need for a minority group. It is basic social psychology.

    Its just a totally different way of thinking than people are used to. But I don't think that its necessarily any harder. It's made my life ALOT easier. This is so difficult for me to explain in my own words...but trust me it makes so much sense.
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    Sep 22, 2010 2:24 AM GMT
    maybe it's because we have finally decided not to hide behind some "non-label" or a fake label "straight" and stand up for ourselves when needed. you don't have to scream about your gayness, but you shouldn't be afraid to state it whenever to whomever and wherever. we've done enough hiding. also the research on fluidity of sexuality is not very convincing, show me how many gays have come out of the closet as straight and we shall talk (that one drunk time with your fag hag notwithstanding)
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    Sep 22, 2010 2:31 AM GMT
    Ciarsolo saidI like to engage physically with members of my own sex.
    homo=same
    sexual= sex
    Therefore I am...homosexual.
    What was your post about again?

    Any "homosocials" here?
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    Sep 22, 2010 2:40 AM GMT
    The idea has merit if everyone were bisexual. As well, consider who is saying gays are 'those people'.
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    Sep 22, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
    Sylas saidThis has been something I have wanted to post about for a very long time, but never got around to it.

    Why do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight? I am all for gay lib. But it shouldn't be gay lib for a specific group of people. It is my understanding research has shown sexuality to be fluid....everyone falling on a spectrum somewhere between two opposites.


    It just seems really divisive to me that in this day and age, the emphasis is on winning rights for a "special group of people" who don't even really exist. It should be on changing societies CONCEPT of sexuality as a whole...those concepts are deeply engrained. Stop thinking either or, people! Be tolerant and accepting..no problems then.


    Gonna skip past the other comments, and address this.

    I think you are honestly on to something.

    Sexuality - and orientation along with it - are seldom binary things.

    I know some guys will swear on a stack of bibles that there is no such thing as a "bisexual" (i.e. someone truly attracted to people from both biological genders).

    I believe that by default, we start out pretty much 50/50 bisexual, and life events and culture influence us and nurture us toward what ultimately becomes our spot on a gradient of sexuality, as opposed to some sort of absolute on or off switch (though I think in time, men in particular tend to gravitate mostly toward one gender or the other as mating and attraction social mechanisms become more well honed to socializing with that gender).

    A sort of a "flow with the path of least resistance" that plays into it.
  • Neon_Dreams

    Posts: 352

    Sep 22, 2010 3:09 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidYes, sexuality is fluid for "most" people, but not for everyone.
    Unfortunately, 100% acceptance of anything other than 100% straight will never exist.
    Because of that, we must fight to have laws that tell the haters to STFU and let us be.


    And, it is also true that there does not actually exist 100% acceptance of all straight people. After all, there are gay people that do not accept straight people, or otherwise discriminate. Guess my point is that, once again, the glass is not half-empty nor is it half-full. There are shades of grey.

    Wait, what was the question?


    Joe
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    Sep 22, 2010 3:37 AM GMT
    Sylas saidWhy do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight?


    The research you know is flawed. Although people end up on this "spectrum" most of them lean heavily towards one side or another. They're perceived "partial bisexuality" is probably just them being open. I'd let a girl suck me and I'd fuck her under the right conditions. But I consider myself gay.
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    Sep 22, 2010 3:39 AM GMT
    Ciarsolo saidI like to engage physically with members of my own sex.

    homo=same

    sexual= sex

    Therefore I am...homosexual.

    What was your post about again?



    LOL
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    Sep 22, 2010 3:39 AM GMT
    I identify as gaist.
  • BlackBeltGuy

    Posts: 2609

    Sep 22, 2010 5:23 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    Sylas saidWhy do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight?


    The research you know is flawed. Although people end up on this "spectrum" most of them lean heavily towards one side or another. They're perceived "partial bisexuality" is probably just them being open. I'd let a girl suck me and I'd fuck her under the right conditions. But I consider myself gay.



    soulmate.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 22, 2010 9:29 AM GMT
    Sylas saidThis has been something I have wanted to post about for a very long time, but never got around to it.

    Why do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight? I am all for gay lib. But it shouldn't be gay lib for a specific group of people. It is my understanding research has shown sexuality to be fluid....everyone falling on a spectrum somewhere between two opposites.


    It just seems really divisive to me that in this day and age, the emphasis is on winning rights for a "special group of people" who don't even really exist. It should be on changing societies CONCEPT of sexuality as a whole...those concepts are deeply engrained. Stop thinking either or, people! Be tolerant and accepting..no problems then.


    062909.jpg
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    Sep 22, 2010 9:57 AM GMT
    We divide, label, and categorized because that is what we humans like to do. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with dividing people into groups so long as we understand that the boundaries of those groups are indeed fluid and sometimes overlap.

    The problem comes when prejudice, bigotry, and other ugly aspects of human nature enter into the equation.
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    Sep 22, 2010 10:14 AM GMT
    I will agree with part deux of your post; that we need to practice acceptance. But the core problem is that we live within a rule of law that allows people to think and act pretty much how they want to--even if that means that they hate you, take away your rights, and on and on.

    But denying the existence of something simply puts it more into a political fringe. Political fringes usually are subjugated to those who are more in number. So, while I can see your argument in saying that if sexuality is infinity then it declassifies everyone, but the problem with large populations is that you need to have representatives of each taste to stand up and show themselves in order to justify the existence of the constituents of the population; otherwise it becomes even more "immoral." Absenteeism = Immoral
    What you are suggesting is amoral, and quite frankly, while I can appreciate what you suggest, I dunno if I agree. What you suggest is kind of like when I remember in the 1990's people used to say things like "I don't see my friends as black."

    Well they are black, and they are fags too icon_smile.gif

    OP, respectfully, I think you are in denial. Maybe because you are tired of dealing with it and... I don't blame you.

    The rights that everyone is fighting for are not special, and not for a special group of people, in fact quite the opposite, they are meant for everyone; its just that right now they are exclusive so those who are being excluded need to stand up and be heard so that we protect the rights of all people.

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    Sep 22, 2010 10:45 AM GMT
    Karate1974 said
    JAKEBENSON said
    Sylas saidWhy do people feel the need to identify people as gay or straight?


    The research you know is flawed. Although people end up on this "spectrum" most of them lean heavily towards one side or another. They're perceived "partial bisexuality" is probably just them being open. I'd let a girl suck me and I'd fuck her under the right conditions. But I consider myself gay.



    soulmate.


    hi soulmate
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 22, 2010 12:01 PM GMT
    In a perfect world where discrimination towards any sexual orientation doesnt exist, labels would still exist to identify distinct sexual preferences. However Im sure nobody would start threads complaining/wondering/worrying about them.