"Most corrupt part of North America" is in -- CANADA!?

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    Sep 25, 2010 7:52 PM GMT
    from cbc.ca


    MACLEANS MAGAZINE COVER SPARKS CONTROVERSY

    Quebec politicians and organizers of the Quebec Winter Carnival are up in arms about an explosive cover story in the latest issue of Maclean's magazine that declares the province the most corrupt in Canada.

    The Oct. 4 edition of the magazine also depicts the iconic figure Bonhomme Carnaval carrying a suitcase overflowing with cash.

    Two accompanying articles inside explore the question of why so many political scandals seem to happen in Quebec, from the current controversy involving judicial appointments to the patronage days of former premier Maurice Duplessis.

    "As politicians and experts from every facet of the political spectrum told Maclean's, the history of corruption is sufficiently long and deep in Quebec that it has bred a culture of mistrust of the political class," writes Martin Patriquin in the article.

    P.O.V.:
    Is the Oct.4 Maclean's cover offensive? Take our poll.

    "It raises an uncomfortable question: why is it that politics in Canada's bête noire province seem perpetually rife with scandal?"

    Quebec New Democrat MP Thomas Mulcair said he is sickened by the magazine's treatment of the issue from the cover to the content.

    He said there is no evidence Quebec's history with corruption is worse than any other province.

    "It's the worst type of group smear you could think of," Mulcair told CBC News on Friday. "It's beneath contempt."

    Bloc Québécois MP Pierre Paquette also criticized the publication, saying Maclean's was engaging in "Quebec bashing."

    'It's the worst type of group smear you could think of. It's beneath contempt.'—Thomas Mulcair, Quebec NDP MP
    On Friday, officials with Quebec's Winter Carnival weighed in. Carnival director general Jean Pelletier said using the world-renowned image of Bonhomme in a story about corruption was out of line.

    "It is deplorable that the image of our winter ambassador for tourism in Quebec has been misrepresented in this way," said Pelletier in a statement.

    Writer defends edition
    Patriquin, Maclean's Quebec bureau chief, said the magazine is legitimately exploring the history of corruption in Quebec.

    He said people should read the entire five pages dedicated to the story before casting judgment. According to the article, Quebec had been described by historians as far back as 1968 as the most corrupt region of North America.

    "The idea that this is Quebec bashing is frankly moronic," Patriquin told CBC News. "We hit hard with our covers. We have done this for other regions in Canada. [Anyone who says] that we are singling out Quebec for any reason hasn't read any of the other issues we put out in a year."

    He said not everyone is upset with what they have read.

    'When people look past the cover and read the story, they realize there is a point to it.'— Martin Patriquin, Maclean's Quebec bureau chief
    "When people look past the cover and read the story, they realize there is a point to it. The reaction has been quite pleasantly good."

    One prominent Quebec columnist has come out in support of the magazine's treatment of the issue.

    Patrick Lagacé, a columnist with the Montreal daily La Presse, said the magazine makes a point: Quebec's political corruption scandals run deep. He said Patriquin hit the story right on the money.

    "Right now, Maclean's is right. I would defy anyone to say that stuff like what we're seeing in Quebec in the last two years is happening elsewhere," Lagacé said in an interview.

    The latest issue of Maclean's comes in the same week that Premier Jean Charest has been on the stand at the Bastarache commission, defending himself against allegations of influence peddling in the appointment of judges.



    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/09/24/macleans-quebec-cover-controversy.html#ixzz10ZZGtw4L
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    Sep 25, 2010 8:02 PM GMT
    Im not surprised at all.Its all corruption here. The italian mafia owns Montreal. Its also what happens when the government has way too much power (50% of our revenue go in taxes)
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    Sep 25, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
    Yeah I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to that mag. Couple years back they labeled a neighborhood in my city "The worst neighborhood in Canada"... One in which I'm not upset if I have to walk through it at night alone (and I only weigh about 130).
  • disasterpiece

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    Sep 25, 2010 8:50 PM GMT
    Hahaha, well Martin Patriquin is surely not at his first controversy on the subject of Francophobia and Quebec Bashing...

    I kinda agree with all the explanations he gaves; Yes, our politics are corrupted.

    Though, I don't really agree with the link with the separatist issue. I mean, come on, get over it... squarehead. icon_lol.gif
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    Sep 25, 2010 8:58 PM GMT
    Whatever, it's a McLeans article. I'm not saying there isn't corruption in Quebec, but there's a lot in New York as well. It's everywhere. McLeans is a stupid, right-wing propaganda magazine and I have no time to hear about what they say.

    Quebec is a mess, but I have a hard time believing anything in the article. I do have to say something, though. If Quebec is going to bitch about this, they need to get in touch with reality and realize that no one cares about Quebec, but themselves. They make the rest of Canada not care, when most people would, if they didn't constantly whine and bitch. It's a great place to go party and stuff, but it's a dump. It's falling apart and they can't afford a thing. I am 100% in support of them, I very much so believe they are a integral part of Canada. But, they need to loose this agenda of singling themselves out. It's only a matter of time before it's going to bite them in the ass.



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    Sep 25, 2010 9:05 PM GMT
    Eh, I'm not a fan of McLean's. lol, I remember an article that came out at the height of the SARS crisis. The reporter went to see her son in hospital. She had what she called a 'garden variety' cold and went wheezing and coughing through the hospital. She was angry because the staff gave her disparaging looks. icon_rolleyes.gif

    -Doug
  • dantoujours

    Posts: 378

    Sep 25, 2010 9:20 PM GMT
    I grew up in Gatineau, Québec and have lived in the Deep South of the USA and now live in New York City and would say that the corruption is about the same in each place.

    Most of my Québécois friends don't care if the rest of the world pays attention to them or Québec or not, but politicians have gotten adept at using the threat of separation and hurt feelings to get more money out of Ottawa (something Alberta and other provinces are becoming more adept at doing too.) But I wouldn't call it widespread. Most younger people seem to be pragmatic, learn English (while retaining love for French and Québec culture) and are pretty globalized.

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    Sep 25, 2010 9:34 PM GMT
    Hahaha ... silly America Jr.
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    Sep 25, 2010 9:36 PM GMT
    AdamBomb saidHahaha ... silly America Jr.


    Haha, silly uneducated American.
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    Sep 25, 2010 9:45 PM GMT
    Would you prefer "America's hat"?
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    Sep 25, 2010 9:50 PM GMT
    AdamBomb saidWould you prefer "America's hat"?


    Sure, that's very large, full of water, oil and every other resource you don't have.
  • disasterpiece

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    Sep 25, 2010 9:52 PM GMT
    AdamBomb saidWould you prefer "America's hat"?


    It depends on which perspective. Historically talking, if it weren't with England's French-Canadian assimilation issues, the USA could still be called New-England. Now, what about that ? icon_rolleyes.gif

    I'm sorry, but you can't really compare Quebec and the United-States, in my opinion.
  • dantoujours

    Posts: 378

    Sep 25, 2010 10:01 PM GMT
    It would be nice if there could be a thread about Canada (or some other country) without a lame (and insecure) American joining it just to put down that other country.

    I may live in New York but one odd aspect of U.S. culture I've never understood is why so many Americans are so emotionally invested in the idea that they have to be #1 at everything and feel a need tell everyone who is not an American that they are inferior, even on a thread that has nothing to do comparing anything with the States whatsoever.

    I expect oneupmanship on a elementary school play yard, but not amongst adults.
  • disasterpiece

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    Sep 25, 2010 10:03 PM GMT
    dantoujours saidIt would be nice if there could be a thread about Canada (or some other country) without a lame (and insecure) American joining it just to put down that other country.

    I may live in New York but one odd aspect of U.S. culture I've never understood is why so many Americans are so emotionally invested in the idea that they have to be #1 at everything and feel a need tell everyone who is not an American that they are inferior, even on a thread that has nothing to do comparing anything with the States whatsoever.

    I expect oneupmanship on a elementary school play yard, but not amongst adults.


    I just found a new friend icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:15 PM GMT
    we always have such strong opinions when talking about something we don't know. icon_rolleyes.gif

    it's fucking politics for god's sake .Money , power.. you know....
    the good thing is that there is a commission, that those things come out in the open at some point and certain measures are taken to prevent them.. we hope.
    but they'll find other ways, money will end up in the wrong pockets again, and they'll get caught again.

    and it's EVERYWHERE .

    as for that McLean's journalist , i believe he 's never even been to Quebec, lol.

    Quebec is a mess ? so are all provinces. But amazingly we've been practically sheltered from the 2007 crisis.
    as for taxes, no matter how you look at it, everywhere in this country people have to work a minimum of 6 months before any money they make is their's.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    AdamBomb saidWould you prefer "America's hat"?


    We are on top and we are bigger.

    If this were prison, you'd be our bitch.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:23 PM GMT
    catIII saidWhatever, it's a McLeans article. I'm not saying there isn't corruption in Quebec, but there's a lot in New York as well. It's everywhere. McLeans is a stupid, right-wing propaganda magazine and I have no time to hear about what they say.

    Quebec is a mess, but I have a hard time believing anything in the article. I do have to say something, though. If Quebec is going to bitch about this, they need to get in touch with reality and realize that no one cares about Quebec, but themselves. They make the rest of Canada not care, when most people would, if they didn't constantly whine and bitch. It's a great place to go party and stuff, but it's a dump. It's falling apart and they can't afford a thing. I am 100% in support of them, I very much so believe they are a integral part of Canada. But, they need to loose this agenda of singling themselves out. It's only a matter of time before it's going to bite them in the ass.



    Yea well I'm not so sure about that, that it will come back to bite them in the ass. I am not a fan of the Quebecois at all, coming from Europe I recognize exactly what's going on - the way that Quebec behaves within Canada is very similar to the way France behaves in the EU.

    Always whining, demanding more, demanding special treatment, demanding that rules apply to everyone except themselves, up to the level of forcing half a continent (in both cases half a continent) to put up with their language that nobody else speaks or cares about.

    I live over 2000 miles from the nearest French speaker, if not farther away, and yet my TV is clogged up by French channels, even the signs pointing to the park are bilingual (Stanley Park - Parc Stanley) and I had to seriously get used to politicians speeching on TV, and then all of a sudden switching to another language, and listening to a translator for the next 5 sentences, and then switch back to English again. Very strange that is, and the result is billions wasted on bilingualism in a country that will very soon have more Cantonese speakers than French speakers.

    In any case, both France and Quebec have always been behaving as a spoiled fat kid in a candy store, that always gets that last treat it asks for, but starts screaming and kicking and crying anyway when mother wants to drag them out.

    And it doesn't seem to change, and they will always threaten to blow up the structures as we know them (federal Canada, the European Union). They're just so damn well positioned in the middle, we kinda need them to make the map look OK.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:29 PM GMT
    Now can we finally invade Canada? For Christ's sake, what are we waiting for? We need to liberate these poor oppressed people from their corrupt government.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:44 PM GMT
    Tazo995 said
    catIII saidWhatever, it's a McLeans article. I'm not saying there isn't corruption in Quebec, but there's a lot in New York as well. It's everywhere. McLeans is a stupid, right-wing propaganda magazine and I have no time to hear about what they say.

    Quebec is a mess, but I have a hard time believing anything in the article. I do have to say something, though. If Quebec is going to bitch about this, they need to get in touch with reality and realize that no one cares about Quebec, but themselves. They make the rest of Canada not care, when most people would, if they didn't constantly whine and bitch. It's a great place to go party and stuff, but it's a dump. It's falling apart and they can't afford a thing. I am 100% in support of them, I very much so believe they are a integral part of Canada. But, they need to loose this agenda of singling themselves out. It's only a matter of time before it's going to bite them in the ass.



    Yea well I'm not so sure about that, that it will come back to bite them in the ass. I am not a fan of the Quebecois at all, coming from Europe I recognize exactly what's going on - the way that Quebec behaves within Canada is very similar to the way France behaves in the EU.

    Always whining, demanding more, demanding special treatment, demanding that rules apply to everyone except themselves, up to the level of forcing half a continent (in both cases half a continent) to put up with their language that nobody else speaks or cares about.

    I live over 2000 miles from the nearest French speaker, if not farther away, and yet my TV is clogged up by French channels, even the signs pointing to the park are bilingual (Stanley Park - Parc Stanley) and I had to seriously get used to politicians speeching on TV, and then all of a sudden switching to another language, and listening to a translator for the next 5 sentences, and then switch back to English again. Very strange that is, and the result is billions wasted on bilingualism in a country that will very soon have more Cantonese speakers than French speakers.

    In any case, both France and Quebec have always been behaving as a spoiled fat kid in a candy store, that always gets that last treat it asks for, but starts screaming and kicking and crying anyway when mother wants to drag them out.

    And it doesn't seem to change, and they will always threaten to blow up the structures as we know them (federal Canada, the European Union). They're just so damn well positioned in the middle, we kinda need them to make the map look OK.


    I guess there is a price to pay for living in a country that IS bilingual. Quebec has their place in our country. Whether you see french, if it's in Quebec or BC, it doesn't matter, we are a bilingual country.

    What I don't support is their ass disease of an attitude and them not having English in their province. That's exactly what I mean when I say I don't support their attitude towards their own nationalism. It's sick. Why the rest of Canada supports THAT kind of attitude is beyond my believe. Your right, France and Quebec are like a poodle, constantly biting and barking at your ankle. But, in reality, they have no backbone to stand on, and no one really wants to hear from them.

    But, what's wrong with having both languages? Really? I grew up in the west and never had to think about French growing up. Now I'm trying to pick up the pieces and learn it when I could have known it years ago. Why? Because I primarily work in Europe and other places where French would be a huge asset for me. I'm usually in awe of the people I meet in Europe and they speak fluently two or even three or four languages. That's education.

    Anyways, not to hijack this thread... Quebec is corrupt, so is everywhere else. Lets get over it already and move on.

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    Sep 25, 2010 10:47 PM GMT
    Agree. They do produce the worlds largest quantity of maple syrup after all.

    But why would you need French in Europe? Everybody in Europe speaks English as a second language... well, except the French of course.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:50 PM GMT
    Tazo995 saidAgree. They do produce the worlds largest quantity of maple syrup after all.

    But why would you need French in Europe? Everybody in Europe speaks English as a second language... well, except the French of course.


    Haha, good one, your right. But I'm in France, Switzerland, Lebanon, Parts of Africa and the Middle East where it would be an asset. Not everyone speaks English, trust me.
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    Sep 25, 2010 10:58 PM GMT
    catIII said
    Tazo995 saidAgree. They do produce the worlds largest quantity of maple syrup after all.

    But why would you need French in Europe? Everybody in Europe speaks English as a second language... well, except the French of course.


    Haha, good one, your right. But I'm in France, Switzerland, Lebanon, Parts of Africa and the Middle East where it would be an asset. Not everyone speaks English, trust me.


    Oh I'm very well aware of that. But yea, those places you mention are the classical Francophone world. I was referring to western Europe, as most (North) Americans never seem to venture further East than Berlin anyway.

    Now slam me for comparing Americans with Canadians... I'm sowwwyyy
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    Sep 25, 2010 11:37 PM GMT
    Sony150 saidalso, i just read some of the replies in here and i just figured i'd touch up on a few things.. i've lived in a hell of a lot of places and met tons of people and from my experience, canadians aren't very far off from the pompous and 'cocky' americans that are being spoken about here.. if they had a trophy as far as that goes, i'm sure it'd go to canada as america's hands are still full and currently building more shelves for the ones gained at the olympics. that said, i spent my time in canada listening to how much better than america canada is.. no one likes a sore loser and particularly, no ones like another who complains about being second best crowning themselves first. it's not very becoming. period.

    i have a rule of thumb for that as i do dating guys that trash talk their ex's.. DON'T... it's a beautiful country, their television entertainment blows but i think that's everywhere though compared to the variety we've got here in the states, MAN! you can't compare.

    there's a culture which i loved, different language and perhaps pretty cool people if you just work extra hard to get past the arrogance about how they have free health care and how most of their food is organic and how their laws have banned wal mart from selling produce unlike here in the states.

    im not even sure if wal mart is allowed to really sell up there at all, actually.. i know that they have target, i think...

    anyway, i actually appreciated the french background to quebec. i stayed deep in mtl and not once did i leave the boiling pot of the city unless it was to get to and fro the airport and what i saw, was not pretty.. so that's best avoided on the strip where u can have all the amazing food, shopping and views to last a few days because that can be toured very quickly and very fast especially if you have no agenda there.

    their nightlife? im not sure.. im from miami so compred to here, it pretty much lacked..

    im used to it always being open. there's not one day that u go out here on south beach and have a dull moment or a night with uncrowded streets.

    compared to here, which is what I'M used to, i felt cheated.. big time. aside from that, even the people are a little tame.. it gave me lots of perspective at how sheltered we americans are overall though, it was amazing.. i came back feeling empty and wanting to go back but i think everyone goes through that after every trip.

    beautiful place, regardless.


    Ugh.

    The difference is not if walmart sells produce or not.

    Your comment about collecting more medals then us is pure ignorance. And, precisely the difference of Canadian and American attitudes. Why bring that up here? If you really want to play that game, we won more gold then anyone at a winter olympics, ever. Do yourself a favor and maybe educate yourself, before replying.
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    Sep 25, 2010 11:49 PM GMT
    Sony150 saidhmm... i seem to just hear fucking arrogance but i can't quite figure out where it's coming from.. surely, not canada.


    I'm generally a nice guy, until someone tries to walk on me. Then, I'll put up a fight. It's funny how you, as an American, can make an arrogant comment, yet it's ok. Then someone else who is not American does and it's absolutely shocking.
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    Sep 25, 2010 11:58 PM GMT
    Sony150 said
    catIII said
    Sony150 saidhmm... i seem to just hear fucking arrogance but i can't quite figure out where it's coming from.. surely, not canada.


    I'm generally a nice guy, until someone tries to walk on me. Then, I'll put up a fight. It's funny how you, as an American, can make an arrogant comment, yet it's ok. Then someone else who is not American does and it's absolutely shocking.


    and i believe it u look like a pretty cool guy. i just don't understand why you feel that anyone voicing anything out about canada is voicing out something directly related to you which is what i gathered from your reply towards mr 'america's hat'.. is there really a need to get that defensive about it? if i went ahead and called you a nice guy that's naturally argumentative, i feel that i could probably lay my head and rest as in my comment, i feel quite sure.


    It was a negative comment from the get go. I replied accordingly.