CRITICAL DAY - September 30th - Day Of Decision From Israel - The World Is Watching

  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Sep 26, 2010 2:12 AM GMT
    CRITICAL DAY - September 30th - Day Of Decision From Israel

    The decision that Israel must make by September 30th will decide whether there is peace or not in the Middle East. It is the last day for Israel to decide on whether to extend the 'settlement freeze'. This impacts all of us because if Israel goes to war, the US also goes to war.

    Listen to King of Abdullah II of Jordan on the Jon Stewart Show:

    beginning at 12:30min.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-september-23-2010-king-abdullah-ii-of-jordan

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 26, 2010 4:15 AM GMT
    This is the key on "settlements" (at 14:50):
    We have all gotten painted into a corner on the issue of settlements, unfortunately. And where we should have concentrated is on territories and borders of a future Israeli-Palestinian two-state solution. So now we have this unfortunate issue of the 30th of September....

    Which is to say: "construction" is a non-issue (other than to those seeking to undermine the peace process). If you determine the permanent border, what does it then matter? Any construction that takes place in areas that will remain part of Israel are immaterial, and any construction by Israel in areas from which it will withdraw is, well, stupid. Unless Jews aren't ethnically cleansed, in toto, from the future Palestinian Arab state, in which case, again, what does it matter?


    On the macro scale (at 18:40)
    The problem is that you have non-Arab actors that have realized that to be proper in our part of the world is to hijack the injustice of the Palestinians and the future of Jerusalem

    I think we've seen that here on RJ, too. People who care not about gay and Christian Palestinian Arabs living under Hamas and PA rule, who can't be bothered with the plight of Palestinian Arabs in Nahr el Bared, who ignore Kuwait's expulsion of 400,000 Palestinian Arabs... scream bloody murder and "ethnic cleansing" when 1 family is evicted (following legal due process) from a home they didn't own?


    Also note that after discussing the Iranian regime, Hizbullah and Hamas, the King of Jordan says "evil will always persist."
    Why then is it so difficult for their apologists in the west to do so?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 26, 2010 3:02 PM GMT
    Israel wasn't present due to the observance of the Jewish holiday of Sukkot.
    It's odd that samxr attempts to make hay of this, especially given the chronic absence of Arab parties from peace talks.

    As King Abdullah indicated, the "settlements" are a red herring.
    That samxr continues to focus on them instead of on making peace is representative of the problem.

    samxr, you have previously told us both that:
    Jews are welcome to remain in Jewish villages in Arab Palestine (just as there are Arab villages in Israel which is Jewish Palestine).
    And that all Jews have to "get out" and be ethnically cleansed off of "Arab land".
    These positions are completely contradictory.
    Which one do you really believe?
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 26, 2010 10:40 PM GMT
    metta8 saidCRITICAL DAY - September 30th - Day Of Decision From Israel

    The decision that Israel must make by September 30th will decide whether there is peace or not in the Middle East. It is the last day for Israel to decide on whether to extend the 'settlement freeze'. This impacts all of us because if Israel goes to war, the US also goes to war.

    Listen to King of Abdullah II of Jordan on the Jon Stewart Show:

    beginning at 12:30min.

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/thu-september-23-2010-king-abdullah-ii-of-jordan






    "If Israel goes to war ?!"
    With whom ?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 26, 2010 11:43 PM GMT
    That would be with its half brothers, the muslim countries that surround it
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 26, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    Israel will never give the Palestinians a square deal, unless they are forced to. Pure and simple.

    And I dont think Israel will be very lucky in the next war.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 27, 2010 3:41 AM GMT
    pouncer> You mean this King Abdullah [pictured in Star Trek uniform], or the dictator of Saudi Arabia?

    Really? You didn't read the OP or watch the video?!
    (Propagandists like pouncer view any topic as a pretense and forum to bash Israel/Jews, that's the limited depth of their topic.)


    pouncer> Jews-only communities
    pouncer> the apartheid Jews-only towns

    They aren't. In the topic about Gay Palestinian Arabs, we've learned that one found refuge in a "settlement".

    Odd that those who rush to denounce the alleged "Jews-only towns" overlook the surrounding Arab-only (no Jews allowed) towns.
    Recall that all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Judea & Samaria when it became Trans-Jordan's "West Bank".

    It strikes me that pouncer is the type of guy who would rush to point out the "colored-only drinking fountain" while ignoring that all the rest of them were "white only".


    pouncer> the Israelis acknowledge that they are building "settlements"

    There is something magical about that word?
    I mean, beyond the soundbite/slogan propaganda value?


    pouncer> was only ever a 10% freeze - and one that held zero purchase in Gaza

    Gaza? From which Israel fully withdrew 5 years ago?
    As usual, you haven't a clue what you are rambling about.


    pouncer> standing guilty of war crimes before the UN

    ROTFL. The UN has become a court?


    pouncer> running out the clock on the two state solution.

    Another odd statement. As pointed out by King Abdullah II, the issue of "settlements" is a red herring (pouncer's "counter-argument"? A picture of Abdullah in a Star Trek uniform).

    The party engaging in delay tactics is the one constantly storming out of negotiations and demanding a ransom of unilateral concessions to return.


    pouncer> If Israel is to be allowed to block the Palestinian right of return in order that Israel may retain its uniqueness as a 'Jewish state', then the Palestinian state-to-be must be safeguarded from Jewish influence in the same way - no more than a 20% Jewish minority, with the right reserved by the government to treat them as second class citizens.

    Idiocy on top of idiocy.

    There is no such thing as a "Palestinian right of return".
    (As if they get special rights that millions of other refugees weren't entitled to.)

    There is no restriction on the Arab minority in Israel.
    It happens to stand at 20% today.

    Arabs in Israel are not "second class citizens" but full citizens with equal protection under the law.

    Israeli Arabs not only vote and serve in the Knesset (parliament) but also as ministers in the ruling government coalition. They serve in the foreign office, including as ambassadors. They server in the judiciary, including on the High (supreme) Court. Israeli Arabs also serve in the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, achieving ranks as high as Generals.


    pouncer> These pictures....

    are completely misleading propaganda.

    The 1946 map is not of "Arab Palestine" (no such thing existed, and the Arabs at the time were denying the existence of "Palestine") but of Mandate Palestine - the Jewish state to be.

    An honest person would include a 1922 map. Palestine then included all of Trans/Jordan.
    That eastern 77% was to be Arab Palestine (no Jews allowed) while the 22% pictured (1946) was to be the Jewish state.

    More on that here:
    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491

    The 1947 UN partition compromise map neglects to mention that it was the Arabs (still not known as "Palestinians") rejected it and started - and lost - a war.

    More on that here:
    1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691

    The 1948-1967 map ignores that Gaza was then part of Egypt while Judea & Samaria were annexed and unified as Trans/Jordan's so-called "West Bank".

    The timeline is again broken by the lack of a 1968-1994 map. It would be entirely white, thus breaking the illusion that the Palestinian Arabs continue to lose "their" land.

    Also missing is a real map of the Clinton compromise parameters.

    More on that here:
    In search of a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict: UNSCR 242, Oslo and Camp David/Taba
    (Or: I support the Clinton COMPROMISE parameters. Do you?!)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843


    pouncer> One Jewish state is quite enough

    As usual, the racist foundation of pouncer's beliefs comes through.
    Can you imagine him saying that 22 Arab states are enough, no need for yet another Arab Palestine?
    Indeed, he's previously told us that one Jewish state is too many.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Sep 27, 2010 6:00 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Webster666 said
    "If Israel goes to war ?!"
    With whom ?


    Look at a map, Webster-the-Devil and you will find the answer to your question.




    Hey, you stupid cunt.
    I looked at a map.
    They're going to war with Florida ??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 27, 2010 2:25 PM GMT
    pouncer> the member states currently within the League turn out to be 20. Compare with Western or Christian or NATO nations who need not form any confederation at all - such is their hegemony

    Really? The NATO nations don't have a confederation like... NATO?
    You've never heard of the EU?!
    Or UAR?


    You didn't read the OP or watch the video [and thus didn't know which King Abdullah was being discussed]?!

    pouncer> [avoided]


    Propagandists like pouncer view any topic as a pretense and forum to bash Israel/Jews, that's the limited depth of their topic.

    p> King Abdullah is a Jew/Israeli?

    Completely disengenuous, like all your arguments. Abdullah is mentioned once in your lengthy post. Israel 15 times. Jew 12 times. Your inability to address a topic in its place is why you have become one of the most ignored people on RJ.



    They aren't "Jew-only". In the topic about Gay Palestinian Arabs, we've learned that one found refuge in a "settlement".

    p> Why was he looking for "refuge"?

    Because his Arab family wanted to kill him because he was gay.
    There is no rule or requirement making the "settlements" "Jew-only".
    That is yet another false propaganda sound-bite/slogan.
    Meant to misinform the reader, in this case other members of RJ.


    Odd that those who denounce the alleged "Jews-only towns" overlook the surrounding Arab-only (no Jews allowed) towns.
    Recall that all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Judea & Samaria when it became Trans-Jordan's "West Bank".


    p> More lies (there are no Arab-only towns in the West Bank) and diversions

    How many Jews lived anywhere in Judea, Samaria or Gaza between 1948-1967? 0.
    How many Jews live in Gaza or in the areas of the "West Bank" under PA rule? 0.


    p> And if "ethnic cleansing" 60 years ago is going to factor into the 2010 negotiations then it has to cut both ways.

    Who said anything about 60 years ago? We are looking at where people are NOW.
    (Not to mention that you advocate "no fault" war.
    Czechs did return to the Sudetenland, Germans - who started and lost the war - did not.)


    It strikes me that pouncer is the type of guy who would rush to point out the "colored-only drinking fountain" while ignoring that all the rest of them were "white only".

    p> Disgusting slander meant to conjure images of off-topic anti-black bigotry in the United States.

    There is no "slander". It is you who routinely focus on minor alleged Israeli violations while ignoring the sea of real and egregious violations around it. In this case, you falsely alleged that the "settlements" are "Jew-only" while ignoring that the other 97% of the "West Bank" and 100% of Gaza are "Arab-only" (as are the entire countries of Jordan and Saudi Arabia).

    This is exactly like pretending that a black club is racist because most if its patrons (but not all) are black while ignoring that dozens of other establishments are, posted, "white only".


    Is there something magical about the word "settlement"?
    I mean, beyond the soundbite/slogan propaganda value?

    p> [no answer]


    There was no construction freeze in Gaza?
    From which Israel fully withdrew 5 years ago?


    p> [diversion]


    The UN has become a court?

    p> Of course not. But why is this international organization to be believed over the causes of the Lebanon/Israel border dispute in August

    So why did you pretend that "guilt" was established?
    Oh, that's right. It was just another vacuous propaganda soundbite/slogan.

    The difference isn't in the organization but how the investigation is done. In the Lebanon/Israel border incident UN observers were eye-witnesses and involved in events leading up to it. This is very different from the "investigation" you reference, where the conclusions were reached first and then a pro-forma "investigation" (including a report of a mere 50 pages) was conducted to support the preconceived notions. If you knew anything about the scientific method, you'd understand why that is biased and faulty. Indeed, due to that commission's lack of credibility, the UN itself is already preparing and conducting another investigation.


    As pointed out by King Abdullah II, the issue of "settlements" is a red herring.

    p> Of what authority is King Abdullah in this conflict?

    Obviously of sufficient authority for him to be interviewed by John Stewart (yes, we know, on the Comedy channel) and for the interview to be mentioned on ABC This Week. As well as Metta8 posting this here and samxr saying the King is right (in his typical unnuanced way, while not understanding what the King actually said).

    The King is the sovereign of Jordan, which covers 77% of Mandate Palestine and which ruled the "West Bank" for 20 years.

    He is a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad (which is a big deal to many in the region).

    He is a primary (first hand) source, sitting in on the current rounds of negotiations.

    And he's been seen wearing a Star Trek uniform. How cool is that?!


    p> Why is it a red herring?

    "Construction" is a non-issue (other than to those seeking to undermine the peace process). If you determine the permanent border, what does it then matter? Any construction that takes place in areas that will remain part of Israel are immaterial, and any construction by Israel in areas from which it will withdraw is, well, stupid. Unless Jews aren't ethnically cleansed, in toto, from the future Palestinian Arab state, in which case, again, what does it matter?


    The party engaging in delay tactics ("running out the clock") is the one constantly storming out of negotiations and demanding a ransom of unilateral concessions to return.

    p> [nada]


    There is no such thing as a "Palestinian right of return".
    (As if they get special rights that millions of other refugees weren't entitled to.)


    p> In that case - no right of return for Israelis who fled Judea and Samaria. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways.

    I have made no appeal to any "right of return".
    The "settlers" are there NOW.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 27, 2010 2:27 PM GMT
    There is no restriction on the Arab minority in Israel.
    It happens to stand at 20% today.


    p> Israel wants and needs a significant Jewish majority to fulfil it's pet project as a "Jewish state".

    Just as Hungary limits Turkish immigration to retain a Magyar state.
    Why do you continue to focus only on the Jewish state? Obsessed, are you?


    Arabs in Israel are not "second class citizens" but full citizens with equal protection under the law. Israeli Arabs not only vote and serve in the Knesset (parliament) but also as ministers in the ruling government coalition. They serve in the foreign office, including as ambassadors. They server in the judiciary, including on the High (supreme) Court. Israeli Arabs also serve in the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, achieving ranks as high as Generals.

    p> talking points that have about as much credence as the USA saying the same about Latinos and homosexuals.

    Latinos who are American citizens (not illegal immigrants) are not 2nd class citizens in the USA.

    Homosexuals do not have all the legal rights that heterosexuals enjoy.
    (Why does this need to be pointed out to someone posting on a gay board?)


    p> Every country with oppressed minorities says the same thing

    Not true. In neighboring Arab Palestine-to-be, the constitution says that Sharia law is the highest law of the land - which isn't good news for the Christian minority. The Samaritan minority likewise has abandoned their ancient homes to move into territory under Israeli control (and safety). And do we really need to review again the plight of homosexuals in the PA? Or in Iran or Saudi Arabia?

    Yet despite this, pouncer continuously singles out the Jewish state for criticism.
    Again over something it is not guilty, while ignoring those surrounding it who are egregiously guilty.


    The 1946 map is not of "Arab Palestine" (no such thing existed, and the Arabs at the time were denying the existence of "Palestine") but of Mandate Palestine - [then] the Jewish state to be.

    p> Complete racist nonsense. Israel never "came to be"....

    Can't address what I just said?


    p> Palestine has been the western name (indeed the global name) for Israel since the unimportant Jewish "kingdom" folded for good thousands of years ago.

    Once again we see pouncer's repeated racist need to denigrate all things Jewish.

    Thanks for confirming that "Palestine" is the Latin/European (or "western") name for Israel.


    p> Palestinian Arabs saw their highest levels of ethnic nationalism surge during the 19th - as opposed to the 20th - Century.

    Nonsense. Some Arabs rebelled against the Turks (due to forced conscription), but there was no "nationalist" component to the brief rebellion around 1840. Indeed, in the first half of the 20th century the Arabs living here still denied the existence of "Palestine" and "Palestinians".

    But we were talking about the 1946 map, and we see that it is a misrepresentation.
    Confusing Western Mandate Palestine (the Jewish state-to-be) as if it was "Arab Palestine" (which hasn't ever existed).


    An honest person would include a 1922 map. Palestine then included all of Trans/Jordan.
    That eastern 77% was to be Arab Palestine (no Jews allowed) while the 22% pictured (1946) was to be the Jewish state.


    p> Jordan actually pre-dates Israel as a "nation"

    How obtuse can you get? That Trans-Jordan gained independence in 1946 (2 years before Israel) does nothing to explain the absence of a 1922 map in your propaganda photo time-line.


    The 1947 UN partition compromise map neglects to mention that it was the Arabs (still not known as "Palestinians") rejected it and started - and lost - a war.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691

    p> [runs away]


    The 1948-1967 map ignores that Gaza was then part of Egypt while Judea & Samaria were annexed and unified as Trans/Jordan's so-called "West Bank".

    p> [silence]


    The timeline is again broken by the lack of a 1968-1994 map. It would be entirely white, thus breaking the illusion that the Palestinian Arabs continue to lose "their" land.

    p> [nada]


    Also missing is a real map of the Clinton compromise parameters.

    p> [flees]


    p> West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza are the Palestinian state to be - leave it alone!!

    The borders of the Palestinian Arab state have yet to be determined.
    As noted by King Abdullah II (see OP).


    As usual, the racist foundation of pouncer's beliefs comes through.
    Can you imagine him saying that 22 Arab states are enough, no need for yet another Arab Palestine?
    Indeed, he's previously told us that one Jewish state is too many.


    p> One Jewish state is too many for a practical or lasting peace.

    That some racists seek to "throw the Jews into the sea" and have waged a war of "extermination" and "momentous massacre" for more than 60 years does not mean that one Jewish state is too many. That's a classical case of blaming the victim.

    Once again we see pouncer's madrassah logic. What he just said is no different than saying that, "due to rapes, one woman is too many" or "due to gay bashers, one gay in the miltiary is too many". Who, other than the most extreme of misogynists or homophobes, would say something like that (let alone consider it clever?)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 28, 2010 2:07 PM GMT
    ROTFL.

    Not just because of how little pouncer has to say (he can't address 95% of my post), but because the little he does say is either wrong or meaningless.

    Pointing out that Mandate Palestine was terminated prior to the birth of this King is as idiotic as pointing out that Obama being the first black president is irrelevant since it's more than 100 years after slavery ended.

    Saddam Hussein was NOT a descendent of the prophet, not that there is any relevance to that paragraph or the next.

    Since pouncer can't defend or support any of his previous lies/errors, let's focus on the topic and what King Abdullah II said:

    This is the key on "settlements" (at 14:50):
    We have all gotten painted into a corner on the issue of settlements, unfortunately. And where we should have concentrated is on territories and borders of a future Israeli-Palestinian two-state solution. So now we have this unfortunate issue of the 30th of September....

    Which is to say: "construction" is a non-issue (other than to those seeking to undermine the peace process). If you determine the permanent border, what does it then matter? Any construction that takes place in areas that will remain part of Israel are immaterial, and any construction by Israel in areas from which it will withdraw is, well, stupid. Unless Jews aren't ethnically cleansed, in toto, from the future Palestinian Arab state, in which case, again, what does it matter?


    On the macro scale (at 18:40)
    The problem is that you have non-Arab actors that have realized that to be proper in our part of the world is to hijack the injustice of the Palestinians and the future of Jerusalem

    I think we've seen that here on RJ, too. People who care not about gay and Christian Palestinian Arabs living under Hamas and PA rule, who can't be bothered with the plight of Palestinian Arabs in Nahr el Bared, who ignore Kuwait's expulsion of 400,000 Palestinian Arabs... scream bloody murder and "ethnic cleansing" when 1 family is evicted (following legal due process) from a home they didn't own?


    Also note that after discussing the Iranian regime, Hizbullah and Hamas, the King of Jordan says "evil will always persist."
    Why then is it so difficult for their apologists in the west to identify them as such?
    (Because, in their warped view, the enemy of their enemy is a friend and heroic?)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 28, 2010 3:50 PM GMT
    Since pouncer can't defend or support any of his previous lies/errors, let's focus on the topic and what King Abdullah II said

    pouncer> [backtracks to previous discussion]

    Isn't amazing how pouncer can't ever discuss a subject in its topic. always needing to raise diversions and discuss something else? In a topic about X, he'll divert to Y. In the topic about Y, to Z. And in the topic about Z he'll regurgitate his misinformation/lies about X.

    If you'd rather continue the previous discussion:

    P1. There is no restriction on the Arab minority in Israel.
    It happens to stand at 20% today.


    p> Israel wants and needs a significant Jewish majority to fulfil it's pet project as a "Jewish state".

    Just as Hungary limits Turkish immigration to retain a Magyar state.
    Why do you continue to focus only on the Jewish state? Obsessed, are you?

    p> The Ottoman Turks ruled a small part of Hungary for less than two centuries some 400 - 500 years ago

    Whoosh! The sound of another point going over pouncer's head.
    I could note that Arabs hadn't ruled "Palestine" in nearly 1000 years.
    But that's not the point, either.
    The point is that all nations restrict immigration, yet pouncer selectively and obsessively focuses only on Israeli immigration laws.


    P2. Arabs in Israel are not "second class citizens" but full citizens with equal protection under the law. Israeli Arabs not only vote and serve in the Knesset (parliament) but also as ministers in the ruling government coalition. They serve in the foreign office, including as ambassadors. They server in the judiciary, including on the High (supreme) Court. Israeli Arabs also serve in the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, achieving ranks as high as Generals.

    p> talking points that have about as much credence as the USA saying the same about Latinos and homosexuals.

    P2A. Latinos who are American citizens (not illegal immigrants) are not 2nd class citizens in the USA.

    P2B. Homosexuals do not have all the legal rights that heterosexuals enjoy.
    (Why does this need to be pointed out to someone posting on a gay board?)


    p> Every country with oppressed minorities says the same thing

    P2C. Not true. In neighboring Arab Palestine-to-be, the constitution says that Sharia law is the highest law of the land - which isn't good news for the Christian minority. The Samaritan minority likewise has abandoned their ancient homes to move into territory under Israeli control (and safety). And do we really need to review again the plight of homosexuals in the PA? Or in Iran or Saudi Arabia?

    P2D. Yet despite this, pouncer continuously singles out the Jewish state for criticism.
    Again over something it is not guilty, while ignoring those surrounding it who are egregiously guilty.


    P3. The 1946 map is not of "Arab Palestine" (no such thing existed, and the Arabs at the time were denying the existence of "Palestine") but of Mandate Palestine - [then] the Jewish state to be.

    p> Complete racist nonsense. Israel never "came to be"....

    Can't address what I just said?


    p> Palestine has been the western name (indeed the global name) for Israel since the unimportant Jewish "kingdom" folded for good thousands of years ago.

    P3A. Once again we see pouncer's repeated racist need to denigrate all things Jewish.

    P3B. Thanks for confirming that "Palestine" is the Latin/European (or "western") name for Israel.


    p> Palestinian Arabs saw their highest levels of ethnic nationalism surge during the 19th - as opposed to the 20th - Century.

    P3C. Nonsense. Some Arabs rebelled against the Turks (due to forced conscription), but there was no "nationalist" component to the brief rebellion around 1840. Indeed, in the first half of the 20th century the Arabs living here still denied the existence of "Palestine" and "Palestinians".

    P3D. But we were talking about the 1946 map, and we see that it is a misrepresentation.
    Confusing Western Mandate Palestine (the Jewish state-to-be) as if it was "Arab Palestine" (which hasn't ever existed).


    P4. An honest person would include a 1922 map. Palestine then included all of Trans/Jordan.
    That eastern 77% was to be Arab Palestine (no Jews allowed) while the 22% pictured (1946) was to be the Jewish state.


    p> Jordan actually pre-dates Israel as a "nation"

    P4A. How obtuse can you get? That Trans-Jordan gained independence in 1946 (2 years before Israel) does nothing to explain the absence of a 1922 map in your propaganda photo time-line.


    P5. The 1947 UN partition compromise map neglects to mention that it was the Arabs (still not known as "Palestinians") rejected it and started - and lost - a war.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691

    p> [runs away]


    P6. The 1948-1967 map ignores that Gaza was then part of Egypt while Judea & Samaria were annexed and unified as Trans/Jordan's so-called "West Bank".

    p> [silence]


    P7. The timeline is again broken by the lack of a 1968-1994 map. It would be entirely white, thus breaking the illusion that the Palestinian Arabs continue to lose "their" land.

    p> [nada]


    P8. Also missing is a real map of the Clinton compromise parameters.

    p> [flees]


    p> West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza are the Palestinian state to be - leave it alone!!

    P8A. The borders of the Palestinian Arab state have yet to be determined.
    As noted by King Abdullah II (see OP).


    P9. As usual, the racist foundation of pouncer's beliefs comes through.
    Can you imagine him saying that 22 Arab states are enough, no need for yet another Arab Palestine?
    Indeed, he's previously told us that one Jewish state is too many.


    p> One Jewish state is too many for a practical or lasting peace.

    P9A. That some racists seek to "throw the Jews into the sea" and have waged a war of "extermination" and "momentous massacre" for more than 60 years does not mean that one Jewish state is too many. That's a classical case of blaming the victim.

    P9B. Once again we see pouncer's madrassah logic. What he just said is no different than saying that, "due to rapes, one woman is too many" or "due to gay bashers, one gay in the miltiary is too many". Who, other than the most extreme of misogynists or homophobes, would say something like that (let alone consider it clever?)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 28, 2010 10:05 PM GMT
    pouncer> Have you ever been told you are boring C4?

    I've been told quite to the contrary. Perhaps if you were capable of critical thinking you'd have realized that your inability to address points of substance doesn't make me boring. That, as well as your latest attempted personal attack, reflects poorly only on you.

    If you can't defend or support your misrepresentations/lies posted as diversions, we can return to discussing what King Abdullah said (review OP if you've spun yourself dizzy and forgot the subject of this forum topic).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 29, 2010 4:44 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair> you are not only a professional lying for the cause, but also a racist.

    There is nothing "racist" in my posts, nor have you managed to catch me lying about anything we've discussed.

    You have been caught lying about point after point after point.
    That is, when you can even discuss a point rather than spam diversions (as above).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 30, 2010 6:07 AM GMT
    Wow I've never seen the Daily Show be so serious!!!

    FYI King Abdullah II of Jordan is absolutely amazing! I love him. If Muslims followed his decorum and intellect, there'd be a two-state solution by now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 30, 2010 6:55 AM GMT
    Unable to defend their previous misrepresentations and lies (including P1-P9 above), pouncer & sxydrkhair appear hell-bent on hijacking the topic (why can't they ever discuss a topic in its place, confusing each topic as if the title were: "let's bash Israel with spam propaganda soundbites & slogans").

    Anyhow, let's get back to the topic and what King Abdullah II said:

    This is the key on "settlements" (at 14:50):
    We have all gotten painted into a corner on the issue of settlements, unfortunately. And where we should have concentrated is on territories and borders of a future Israeli-Palestinian two-state solution. So now we have this unfortunate issue of the 30th of September....

    Which is to say: "construction" is a non-issue (other than to those seeking to undermine the peace process). If you determine the permanent border, what does it then matter? Any construction that takes place in areas that will remain part of Israel are immaterial, and any construction by Israel in areas from which it will withdraw is, well, stupid. Unless Jews aren't ethnically cleansed, in toto, from the future Palestinian Arab state, in which case, again, what does it matter?


    On the macro scale (at 18:40):
    The problem is that you have non-Arab actors that have realized that to be proper in our part of the world is to hijack the injustice of the Palestinians and the future of Jerusalem

    We've seen that here on RJ, too. People who care not about gay and Christian Palestinian Arabs living under Hamas and PA rule, who can't be bothered with the plight of Palestinian Arabs in Nahr el Bared, who ignore Kuwait's expulsion of 400,000 Palestinian Arabs... scream bloody murder and "ethnic cleansing" when 1 family is evicted (following legal due process) from a home they didn't own?


    Also note that after discussing the Iranian regime, Hizbullah and Hamas, the King of Jordan says "evil will always persist."
    Why then is it so difficult for their apologists in the west to identify them as such?
    (Because, in their warped view, the enemy of their enemy is a friend and heroic?)

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 30, 2010 4:44 PM GMT
    pouncer> Nah didn't think so.

    Evidently even pouncer didn't think he could address the topic.
    (Why then does he continue to post, and mostly ad hominems at that?)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 2:46 AM GMT
    Abdullah II> We have all gotten painted into a corner on the issue of settlements, unfortunately. And where we should have concentrated is on territories and borders of a future Israeli-Palestinian two-state solution.

    Which is to say: "construction" is a non-issue (other than to those seeking to undermine the peace process). If you determine the permanent border, what does it then matter? Any construction that takes place in areas that will remain part of Israel are immaterial, and any construction by Israel in areas from which it will withdraw is, well, stupid. Unless Jews aren't ethnically cleansed, in toto, from the future Palestinian Arab state, in which case, again, what does it matter?

    p> how likely is it that a Middle Eastern leader who has this year condemned the building of Israeli settlements as "playing with fire" agrees with you that settlements are a "non-issue" (which is what you stupidly deduced from your choice of short, truncated soundbite)?!

    ROTFL. Unable to show that the "soundbite" (not a "slogan" or adjective as fills his posts but a complete paragraph) is taken out of context, pouncer has no recourse other than ad hominem.

    The point stands.

    Note how one second pouncer is denigrating the King and the next quoting him as an authority. This is the typical wishy washy "source game". A sign (as if we didn't otherwise know it) that someone working backward, in reversal of the scientific method, from preconceived premises masquerading as conclusions.

    Are you denying that the King stressed that talks shouldn't break down over "settlements" (with consequence of war) and instead focus on borders?

    (I'm guessing that rather than provide an honest and direct answer, pouncer will now switch back to denigrating the King, or just post more ad hominems.)

    No surprise, but once again we see that pouncer (like sxydrkhair) is more interested in making anti-Israel noise than in advancing the peace process.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 2:53 AM GMT

    King_Abdullah_on_Star_Trek.jpg

    Ummm...does his majesty look like he is dressed for a role on Star Trek to anyone? Srsly, are those his royal clothes?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 3:51 AM GMT
    So what was decided??
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 4:54 AM GMT
    Grimaldi01 saidSo what was decided??

    Excellent question.

    The deadline was actually on the 26th (not 30th) of September.
    So far the parties are attempting to negotiate a compromise on this issue.
    I believe the Obama administration is seeking a one-time 60-day extension.
    The Arab League Summit has been pushed back 2 days (to begin Oct. 6th), too.

    Note that the unilateral Israeli moratorium was instituted 10 months ago.
    For the first 8-9 months the PA said it was insignificant and refused to return to the negotiating table.
    Once forced to do so by the Obama administration, now they want us to believe that this is a crucial matter?
    That if this suddenly-important ransom isn't paid, that they'll (again) bolt from the peace table...?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 5:01 AM GMT
    It seems that they all want out and any reason will serve them to stop negotiating. It was very evident when the guy from Bruno that they didn't want anything to do with one another...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 6:20 AM GMT
    Our American people paying millions of dollars to create useless infrastructure for the illegal settlements and Palestinians have to pay the price too. Over 100 settlements are illegal under the international law.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6875304.ece
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 9:47 AM GMT
    IanCT saidOur American people paying millions of dollars to create useless infrastructure for the illegal settlements and Palestinians have to pay the price too. Over 100 settlements are illegal under the international law.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6875304.ece


    Did you make a second profile JUST so you can remind me to block you again?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 01, 2010 12:45 PM GMT
    Why doesn't America just take a wee bit more land off Mexico, and donate that land to the Jews, and resettle them there and give Palestine their land back?