THE MYTH OF THE "GAY LIFESTYLE" IS HOLDING US BACK!

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    Sep 26, 2010 5:07 PM GMT
    THE MYTH OF THE "GAY LIFESTYLE" IS HOLDING US BACK!

    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-06/opinion/granderson.gay.lifestyle_1_gay-rights-gay-lifestyle-american-family-association?_s=PM:OPINION

    "The truth is the only thing all gay people have in common -- you know, besides being gay -- is that we face continuous rhetorical, social and legal attacks for simply existing, thus potentially making something as mundane as bringing a date to a work function a fight-or-flee situation."

    READ THE ARTICLE (all 3 pages)....agree or disagree...let's discuss...
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    Sep 26, 2010 8:24 PM GMT
    The concept of a "gay lifestyle" is a way that the religious right has of dismissing nature.

    In reality we are gay because we are born that way. When you talk of a "lifestyle", however, you put being gay at the level of choice. You can choose to have a surfer lifestyle, a middle class lifestyle or a gay lifestyle, but you can chose not to do it either. And Jesus says you shouldn´t chose to be gay. I systematically reject the language of "gay lifestyle" in all contexts. You cannot debate it in those terms. I never chose to be gay. I just chose not to repress it.
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    Sep 26, 2010 8:57 PM GMT
    I was going to wait on SB to point it out...

    The only thing I take umbrage to is this:

    “Some of us live in the closet, some of us do drag every Wednesday night, some of us are Republicans hoping to be change agents within a conservative sect and some of us are apathetic Democrats too dumb to carry on a conversation about anything other than Lady Gaga.”

    Gee, I wonder under which category Mr. Granderson falls?

    Also; it’s agenda not lifestyle…j/k
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:01 PM GMT
    we demand equal rights so we can lure youngsters to do drugs, parties, orgies and spreading std's in suburbia. ( if that's what their definition of gay lifestyle is ).

    obviously.

    except it's already been like that for ever .

    gee, what now.
  • Space_Cowboy_...

    Posts: 3738

    Sep 26, 2010 9:09 PM GMT
    That man is the shit!
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:15 PM GMT
    OK cupcakes, this is your cue to start a slander campaign!

    This is off topic... Seriously, what I dislike about the Gay Lifestyle is that it revolves around the bars in many big cities.

    In Nor Cal, there are just a handful of bars. but each has a night where they allow 18 year olds in. They're not supposed to drink but it's not hard to find an older guy to buy you drinks.

    I think its sneaky and its unethical of these bars to do this. They are preparing the kids for a life in the bars, drinking and clubbing at a younger age.

    Pretty soon it will be 16 and up... There are other ways gay youth can socialize and meet up without it having to be in a bar. Last time i went into one, there were a bunch of young guys, fat from drinking pitchers of beer, and drunk and out of control.

    My 2 cents icon_smile.gif
  • danielek

    Posts: 124

    Sep 26, 2010 9:17 PM GMT
    18 is only a year younger than the legal age here, and it is the legal age in Quebec. It's not Canada's fault you have antiquated liquor laws icon_smile.gif
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:23 PM GMT
    CaliBoySwag saidOK cupcakes, this is your cue to start a slander campaign!

    This is off topic... Seriously, what I dislike about the Gay Lifestyle is that it revolves around the bars in many big cities.

    In Nor Cal, there are just a handful of bars. but each has a night where they allow 18 year olds in. They're not supposed to drink but it's not hard to find an older guy to buy you drinks.

    I think its sneaky and its unethical of these bars to do this. They are preparing the kids for a life in the bars, drinking and clubbing at a younger age.

    Pretty soon it will be 16 and up... There are other ways gay youth can socialize and meet up without it having to be in a bar. Last time i went into one, there were a bunch of young guys, fat from drinking pitchers of beer, and drunk and out of control.

    My 2 cents icon_smile.gif


    and this is diferent from the local college/univirsity bars?

    what have I said about calling my cupcakes in public?
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidThe concept of a "gay lifestyle" is a way that the religious right has of dismissing nature.

    In reality we are gay because we are born that way. When you talk of a "lifestyle", however, you put being gay at the level of choice. You can choose to have a surfer lifestyle, a middle class lifestyle or a gay lifestyle, but you can chose not to do it either. And Jesus says you shouldn´t chose to be gay. I systematically reject the language of "gay lifestyle" in all contexts. You cannot debate it in those terms. I never chose to be gay. I just chose not to repress it.


    ...Are your nipples shooting out lasers?!
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    its not just about liquor laws.

    There is so much more to life than bar flying it.
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Lostboy saidThe concept of a "gay lifestyle" is a way that the religious right has of dismissing nature.

    In reality we are gay because we are born that way. When you talk of a "lifestyle", however, you put being gay at the level of choice. You can choose to have a surfer lifestyle, a middle class lifestyle or a gay lifestyle, but you can chose not to do it either. And Jesus says you shouldn´t chose to be gay. I systematically reject the language of "gay lifestyle" in all contexts. You cannot debate it in those terms. I never chose to be gay. I just chose not to repress it.


    ...Are your nipples shooting out lasers?!


    I go to church on sundays, call me an odd duck. I live a normal suburban lifestyle.. I don't live a gay lifestyle.. other than the fact that I like sex with men, but I wouldn't call that a lifestyle. I would call that a sexual preference.

    College / University bars are different, they're 21 no? in most states? Not guys that just graduated high school getting drunk at gay clubs. Thats a whole pandoras box.

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    Sep 26, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    CaliBoySwag saidOK cupcakes, this is your cue to start a slander campaign!

    This is off topic... Seriously, what I dislike about the Gay Lifestyle is that it revolves around the bars in many big cities.

    In Nor Cal, there are just a handful of bars. but each has a night where they allow 18 year olds in. They're not supposed to drink but it's not hard to find an older guy to buy you drinks.

    I think its sneaky and its unethical of these bars to do this. They are preparing the kids for a life in the bars, drinking and clubbing at a younger age.

    Pretty soon it will be 16 and up... There are other ways gay youth can socialize and meet up without it having to be in a bar. Last time i went into one, there were a bunch of young guys, fat from drinking pitchers of beer, and drunk and out of control.

    My 2 cents icon_smile.gif


    Any place out here with an 18^ night has a separate dance floor around here. You can't even get tot he areas with bars unless you have ID.

    And it pisses me off when guys like you say "its all about bars blah blah blah" My striaght friends go bar hopping just as much as any gay people, its about being young, blowing off steam, and having a good time with your friends. A night for the younger crowd is good (though I don't go, I like my men a little older) because for many of them it's their only way to really meet and connect with other gay people, as was the case for me.
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    Sep 26, 2010 9:28 PM GMT
    CaliBoySwag said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Lostboy saidThe concept of a "gay lifestyle" is a way that the religious right has of dismissing nature.

    In reality we are gay because we are born that way. When you talk of a "lifestyle", however, you put being gay at the level of choice. You can choose to have a surfer lifestyle, a middle class lifestyle or a gay lifestyle, but you can chose not to do it either. And Jesus says you shouldn´t chose to be gay. I systematically reject the language of "gay lifestyle" in all contexts. You cannot debate it in those terms. I never chose to be gay. I just chose not to repress it.


    ...Are your nipples shooting out lasers?!


    I go to church on sundays, call me an odd duck. I live a normal suburban lifestyle.. I don't live a gay lifestyle.. other than the fact that I like sex with men, but I wouldn't call that a lifestyle. I would call that a sexual preference.

    College / University bars are different, they're 21 no? in most states? Not guys that just graduated high school getting drunk at gay clubs. Thats a whole pandoras box.



    I bet you don't tell any one you're gay and would never dare bring your boyfriend to a family/work function.
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    Sep 27, 2010 2:09 PM GMT
    Lostboy saidThe concept of a "gay lifestyle" is a way that the religious right has of dismissing nature.

    In reality we are gay because we are born that way. When you talk of a "lifestyle", however, you put being gay at the level of choice. You can choose to have a surfer lifestyle, a middle class lifestyle or a gay lifestyle, but you can chose not to do it either. And Jesus says you shouldn´t chose to be gay. I systematically reject the language of "gay lifestyle" in all contexts. You cannot debate it in those terms. I never chose to be gay. I just chose not to repress it.


    I agree!
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    Sep 27, 2010 2:15 PM GMT
    lol, 'gay lifestyle'. I see that on this forum quite a lot.

    Crap. If you're gay, then anything you do, even walking a dog, could be considered 'gay lifestyle'. What a joke.

    -Doug
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    Sep 27, 2010 2:49 PM GMT
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    Sep 27, 2010 2:53 PM GMT
    I think the straight 'lifestyle' is disgusting!

    All of that sex, drugs, and rock and roll?! Plus you must not forget about infidelity, spousal abuse, sexual fetishes, swinging, rampant crime, countless bars and strip joints, adult conventions, decadent parties, the Hedonism resorts, Las Vegas, casinos, and the like. It's just nauseating!
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    Sep 27, 2010 2:54 PM GMT
    As far as the Gay/Bar Lifestyle goes, I believe those young gay guys& gals should have the same opportunity to become a bar fly as the seventeen year old girls that hang out at bars; college towns can't afford to card too many people or their busniesses will slide down hill. Personally, I think the bar life sucks, but that isn't just "gay culture," that's life.
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    Sep 27, 2010 3:10 PM GMT
    P.S
    The whole "Gay Lifestyle" thing is just a matter of PR; Us gays could say that Catholics worship pedophiles; not accurate, but we could make the argument for it.
    in terms of lifestyle, There are just as many gay choices I disagree with as there are straight ones. Case/Point; I disagree with Str8 couples that start a family "because they can" yet take no interest in raising said children..
    I also disagree with the gays that choose to define themselves through sex, what they wear, or who they had sex with last month, or how much Meth they did the week before..
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    Sep 27, 2010 8:29 PM GMT
    hmm, i was in the local bars drinking beer and smoking pot and hasch at 15 ...

    retired from the scene at 16 ... probably because i couldn't have any sex with all those straight guys who took me in.
  • KepaArg

    Posts: 1721

    Sep 27, 2010 8:37 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]cmhoh1985 said[/cite]I think the straight 'lifestyle' is disgusting!

    All of that sex, drugs, and rock and roll?! Plus you must not forget about infidelity, spousal abuse, sexual fetishes, swinging, rampant crime, countless bars and strip joints, adult conventions, decadent parties, the Hedonism resorts, Las Vegas, casinos, and the like. It's just nauseating![/quote

    lol
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    Sep 27, 2010 8:50 PM GMT
    "Gay lifestyle" is a rhetorical framing reference that creates an immediate straw man for any thug to kick around. It sets the issue of a congenital orientation on equal footing with moral choice. This framing is intellectually dishonest, intentional and therefore evil.

    People who refer to a "gay lifestyle" should always be treated with derision and sarcasm. Maybe lawsuits too.
  • irishkcguy

    Posts: 780

    Sep 27, 2010 9:10 PM GMT
    I've always been a little confused about what the "gay lifestyle" is really referring to. Here's my theory: a buddy of mine came out in high school and got immediately plugged into the "gay scene." Bear in mind this is how he tells his own coming out experience. He had some older guys take him under their collective wing and showed him the ropes. He started hanging out in gay bars at a very early age and that's still a very big part of his social life 15 years later. When you look at his tastes, his likes, dislikes and interests they all skew toward something I would call "mainstream gay culture." The pop culture he likes is all gay-oriented. His social life very much revolves around the bar scene. Conversely, I came out very late. I did things that we might describe as more "masculine" as a kid and young adult. I played sports in school, coached high school sports for ten years. I was in a social fraternity in college. I knew I was generally more attracted to men, but I dated women for a long time. (I would probably describe myself as a more gay-leaning bisexual man -- I am more attracted to men but occasionally I meet a woman that I am genuinely attracted to.) As a result of coming out later on, I don't really respond much to what I would think is meant by the "gay lifestyle." I rarely go to bars. I would much rather spend an evening out with friends having dinner and going to a ball game or a movie. I can't stand techno club music. However, I do enjoy a good drag show. I guess what I am saying is I think the "gay lifestyle" as such is a learned experience. I think many gay men live this way because they were either raised in it or believe it to be how gay men are supposed to live.

    Ultimately, I think gay men should be encouraged to be themselves and to not adhere to some kind of constructed idea of what we are supposed to be or how our lives should be lived. I would love to see even more diversity in the gay community as we challenge the idea of what gay men are or are supposed to be.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Sep 27, 2010 9:18 PM GMT
    I think saying 'sexual preference' is just as bad because it implies choice as well.

    I don't prefer guys, I'm attracted to guys. I don't prefer guys over gals. I just am attracted to guys and not girls despite even trying to make myself be attracted to girls.

    What is more ironic (or moronic?) though is that the idea of choice somehow lessens the validity of it, at least that is how they argue it. Imagine if other matters in regard to civil rights were invalidated due to it being an actual choice an individual makes like:

    Who one marries, like a black person with a white person - that's a choice, right? People choose to interracial marriage.
    How about religious belief and practice - again, people choose to do it and to which religion they follow.

    If choice were the litmus test for a matter of something being a human right, we wouldn't have them!
    What part of liberty and freedom do people not understand?
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    Sep 27, 2010 9:47 PM GMT
    Anto said
    What part of liberty and freedom do people not understand?
    Just about ALL of it!