The Israel Lobby Swims The Atlantic

  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Sep 27, 2010 1:42 PM GMT
    http://original.antiwar.com/smith-grant/2010/08/17/the-israel-lobby-swims-the-atlantic/
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 02, 2010 2:47 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    Israel would not exist but for the massive political and economic support from the American government and private American Zionists:

    "The observant now know that Israel’s massive, clandestine nuclear arsenal remains a thorn in the side of U.S. nonproliferation efforts. Building it required many unfriendly acts, such as materials theft and covert financing from U.S. donors."
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Oct 02, 2010 2:55 PM GMT
    This is why it is time for the US to stop supporting Israel and all its imperialistic and terrorist actions against the Palestinian people. Most of our European allies are pro-Arab, it is time for the US to get on the same sheet of music and become a pro-Arab country. The establishment of the Nation of Israel has been a royal mistake whose final results has been endless bloodshed and suffering caused primarily be Israel's brutal, iron fisted military. If we need welfare reform in the US, than it is time to cut off the largest, costliest and most undeserving of welfare recipients, Israel.
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    Oct 02, 2010 3:05 PM GMT
    So what would you guys like have to happen to Israel? Are you hoping Iran gets the bomb and blow up the whole country, killing millions? Or would you prefer forced deportation of all Jews back to Europe, the US, and Canada? Would that be good, or what specifically would you like to see happen?

    I am totally amused how you guys only talk about Israel's military actions, but no problem with Hamas, rocket attacks, etc.

    I guess you boys are all in favor of the way gays and women are treated in the arab countries as well? They have more rights in Israel, but that doesn't matter, does it?
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    Oct 02, 2010 7:33 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidWomen in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S. In the U.S. we have so many killing, abuse, and rape crimes.

    The Arab leaders are bunch of hypocrites and they are American-Israeli puppets. Do you really think Arab leaders care about their own people? No they don't. People in the Arab world didn't elected their own leaders. It was U.S. government/Western powers put them in the government. If wasn't for Arab leaders controlling people in the Arab world, I am sure they will have Gay rights. At least Lebanon is a good example where their government allows people to speak out about gay rights in the Middle East. Israel for example, Israeli illegal occupation and apartheid are NOT Gay Rights. So do us all a favor, stop justifying Israel.

    http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=171559


    Sorry but those are outrageous claims, women are not treated better in the Arab world and certainly not in Palestine/the territories, most of the women there report abuse by their husbands. while most women in Egypt report sexual abuse.

    If gay rights were up to a vote I think we would have much harsher repercussions.

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    Oct 02, 2010 7:54 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidSo what would you guys like have to happen to Israel? Are you hoping Iran gets the bomb and blow up the whole country, killing millions? Or would you prefer forced deportation of all Jews back to Europe, the US, and Canada? Would that be good, or what specifically would you like to see happen?


    I'd like to see a secular state, incorporating the Right of Return+ compensation (from those responsible for creating this whole mess) to the Palestinian who want it.

    Its the only just solution given the history of Israel's creation.
    making it probably the only solution that will work on the long run.



  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Oct 02, 2010 8:08 PM GMT
    The two state or more accurately the two nation solution has been a disastrous failure. Dividing this land and its people has resulted in nothing but endless violence and bloodshed. You would think that the majority of the world's prominent political leaders would see this horrendous result of the two state solution and soundly reject it. Instead they continue to endorse this horribly flawed, unworkable two state solution and the violence and bloodshed will continue with no end in sight.
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    Oct 03, 2010 5:24 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair> Women in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S.

    Lay off the Kool Aid already!


    sxydrkhair> If wasn't for Arab leaders ["they are American-Israeli puppets"] controlling people in the Arab world, I am sure they will have Gay rights.

    Lay off the Kool Aid already!

    Did you forget that the gay rights organizations catering to gays in the territories are based in Israel?!
    That gay Palestinian Arabs flee to Israel for safety?!


    sxydrkhair> Lebanon is a good example where their government allows people to speak out about gay rights in the Middle East.

    Might that be because Lebanon is the most Westernized Arab country?

    After all, we see how things are going in Iran, where gay teens are executed.


    In any event, don't we already have enough topics regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict?

    "Palestine" is the Latin/European name for Eretz Yisrael, the Jewish homeland
    - and Arab denials of the existence of "Palestine".

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/349491

    Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people.
    (Judaism is a religion, Jews are an ethnic group)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/494893

    Arabs are not indigenous to Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/979648

    Jerusalem
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/887747

    1947-1948: Arabs reject compromise and attack Israel
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691

    Jaffa: 94% fled before entry of Israeli forces; 6% became Israeli citizens
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/960691#54845_1035438_name

    In search of a solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict: UNSCR 242, Oslo and Camp David/Taba
    (Or: I support the Clinton COMPROMISE parameters. Do you?!)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843

    Pallywood: fake news revealed
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/897708

    Free Gaza from what truly afflicts it: Hamas
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/973888

    Countries that support gays or kill them
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/984797

    Gay Palestinians
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1061322
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    Oct 03, 2010 10:32 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Crixused said
    sxydrkhair saidWomen in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S. In the U.S. we have so many killing, abuse, and rape crimes.
    ............................
    If gay rights were up to a vote I think we would have much harsher repercussions.



    Have you been to Palestinian territories?



    Yes but only for three days.
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    Oct 04, 2010 3:21 AM GMT
    More of the usual idiocy:

    sxydrkhair> If wasn't for Arab leaders ["they are American-Israeli puppets"] controlling people in the Arab world, I am sure they will have Gay rights. Lebanon is a good example where their government allows people to speak out about gay rights in the Middle East.

    C4> Might that be because Lebanon is the most Westernized Arab country?
    After all, we see how things are going in Iran, where gay teens are executed.

    p> lol Iran is an Arabic country now?

    ROTFL. So Iran isn't in the "Middle East" now?


    p> No one is killed in Iran for being gay. Both gay and straight Iranians can be executed following multiple convictions in Iran's Sharia courts for sexual acts that the state believes are incompatible with Islam. There is no specific animus against homosexuality or even sodomy that goes beyond Sharia law.

    Wow, isn't that a relief?
    They don't only execute teenage homosexuals.


    While pouncer pretends to disagree with me and agree with sxydrkhair, in reality he is even more at odds with him. For he comes right out and tells us that the backwardness originates not with "American-Israeli puppets" but with Sharia.


    The insanity continues:

    sxydrkhair> Women in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S.

    Pouncer, shilling as a gay westerner, nonetheless has no comment on this.

    Crixused, on the other hand, shows integrity on both points:

    Crixused> those are outrageous claims, women are not treated better in the Arab world and certainly not in Palestine/the territories, most of the women there report abuse by their husbands. while most women in Egypt report sexual abuse.

    Crixused> If gay rights were up to a vote I think we would have much harsher repercussions.
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    Oct 05, 2010 8:06 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    No actually extremist Muslim takeover and terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremists and terrorist groups.
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    Oct 05, 2010 8:07 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidOr would you prefer forced deportation of all Jews back to Europe, the US, and Canada? Would that be good, or what specifically would you like to see happen?


    The majority of the Jews in Israel are from nearby North African and Middle Eastern countries. If they were deported, they'd be likely murdered in those countries, if not forced to convert to Islam.
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    Oct 05, 2010 8:09 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidWomen in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S. In the U.S. we have so many killing, abuse, and rape crimes.


    This Arab woman begs to differ.

    woman_stoned_to_death.jpg
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 07, 2010 8:09 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    No actually extremist Muslim takeover and terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremists and terrorist groups.


    In other words, extremist Muslim terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremist terrorist groups. Nice tautology!

    Often overlooked in the Mideast conflict are acts of Jewish terrorism. Some examples are:

    1.The hanging of two random British sergeants and the booby trapping of their bodies, in retaliation for the execution of two convicted Zionist terrorists,

    2. the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre when members of two Zionist terrorist organizations, Irgun and the Stern Gang, killed at least 107 and as many as 253 Palestinians and depopulated their village. Over 400 other non-Jewish villages and towns were depopulated by Jewish forces in 1948, during which over 20 other known massacres of Palestinians also occurred.

    3. the 1948 Lydda Death March in which hundreds of civilians died after their expulsion at gunpoint from the town of Lydda and during their three day forced march, without food or water, to the Arab front lines during a summer heat wave.

    4. the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte (U.N. appointed mediator in the Arab-Israeli conflict in 1948. Bernadotte had rescued thousands of Jews from concentration camps during World War II, only a few years prior to his assassination.

    5. The first murder by letter bomb, a relative of the intended (British) victim (opps!)

    6. The first airline hijacking. In 1954, a Syrian plane forced to land in Israel.
    The passangers on the plane were interrogated for two days before being released.

    7. Baruch Goldstein's massacre (entered a Hebron mosque in 1994 while wearing his army uniform and opened fire - killing 29 and wounding 150),

    8. the 1995 assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin for his support of the Oslo Accords,

    9. the 2002 attempted bombing of a Palestinian girls' school, and

    10. the 500,000 ideological Jewish occupiers of the West Bank.

    Further details available in the recently published book, "Jewish Terrorism in Israel" (Columbia Studies in Terrorism and Irregular Warfare) by Ami Pedahzur.
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    Oct 07, 2010 8:21 AM GMT
    tokugawa said
    JAKEBENSON said
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    No actually extremist Muslim takeover and terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremists and terrorist groups.


    In other words, extremist Muslim terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremist terrorist groups. Nice tautology!


    Thank you. It was a hyperbole but you're probably too much of a terrorist yourself to get it. What was implied is that Israel is not the reason Muslim extremists are terrorists. The terrorists have no one to blame but themselves.

    Although I'll agree with you that the ultra orthodox Jews mainly in Jerusalem are just as fucking stupid and pernicious as the Muslim extremists.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 09, 2010 5:40 PM GMT
    JAKEBENSON said
    tokugawa said
    JAKEBENSON said
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    No actually extremist Muslim takeover and terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremists and terrorist groups.


    In other words, extremist Muslim terrorist groups are the reason that the Middle East is full of Muslim extremist terrorist groups. Nice tautology!


    Thank you. It was a hyperbole but you're probably too much of a terrorist yourself to get it.

    I am not a terrorist and your accusation is libelous, which is a crime. How would you like it if I called you a pedophile?

    JAKEBENSON saidWhat was implied is that Israel is not the reason Muslim extremists are terrorists. The terrorists have no one to blame but themselves.
    Although I'll agree with you that the ultra orthodox Jews mainly in Jerusalem are just as fucking stupid and pernicious as the Muslim extremists.

    Wrong! It IS Israel which is the reason for the current terrorism.

    It wasn’t just the "ultra orthodox Jews" who committed terrorist acts. The Zionists who "won" the 1948 war were mostly ordinary, non-orthodox Jews. And, by using terrorist tactics like massacring women and children at Deir Yassin and expelling over 700,000 civilians from their homes (and shooting those who tried to return,) Zionists proved terrorism can work extremely well.

    The Zionist desire for peace is perhaps best illustrated by their 1948 assassination of the U.N. peace mediator, Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte. During World War II, Bernadotte was responsible for the rescue of thousands of Jews from the Nazis. What a nice way for the Zionists to express their thanks to him, because he was trying to help end the conflict which is still claiming lives over 60 years later.

    When the Zionists made it impossible for the 700,000 victims of ethnic cleansing to legally take back what was stolen from them (their homes, their farms, their businesses, their factories, etc.,) is it your opinion that they should just give up? Or can you imagine that they might copy the terrorist tactics which worked so well for the Zionists?

    I favor, and have always favored, peace with justice. What's your solution? Is it more of the same (violence, assassinations, occupation, oppression)?
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    Oct 09, 2010 7:59 PM GMT
    This seemed to have happened yesterday (oct' 8th 2010) near Jerusalem, in a neighborhood called Silwan. Two Palestinian boys 11 and 10 were hit and run by illegal Israeli settlers.

  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 09, 2010 8:16 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidSo what would you guys like have to happen to Israel? Are you hoping Iran gets the bomb and blow up the whole country, killing millions?

    If Iran ever gets the bomb, it is unlikely it would use it. Firstly, because it would mean the total destruction of Iran, which is counterproductive from the Iranian point of view. Iran's motive for having a bomb, if it ever decided to build one, would be for mutual deterrence, since currently Israel is the only nation in the Middle East with atomic weapons.

    Secondly, Iran would not blow up Israel since 20% of the population of Israel is Muslim. Israel's best defense against an atomic attack from a Muslim nation is NOT expelling its remaining Arabs.

    Third, Iran is a signatory of the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. It's peaceful nuclear activities remain under the inspection of the IAEA, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the IAEA currently verifies that Iran has not diverted any nuclear material from its peaceful program which could be used for military purposes.

    You might recall that inspectors verified that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction when it was attacked by the U.S. under President George W. Bush, who asserted that Iraq DID have WMD. It turned out that the inspectors were correct, and Bush had used lies and deception to start his illegal war against Iraq in 2003.

    At the Nuremberg trials after World War II, it was maintained that the WORST international crime was the pre-emptive invasion of another country without justification. Many Nazis were executed because of this. While it remains unlikely that Bush or members of his administration will ever face charges of war crimes, the international standing of the United States has taken a big hit, and countries are less trusting of assertions from the U.S. now that before the invasion of Iraq.

    One final word. It has been misreported in this country that the president of Iran said he wanted to “wipe Israel off the map.” What he actually said was that he hoped that the regime occupying Jerusalem (not the country of Israel) would be “erased from the pages of time” (that is, it would fall because of its internal corruption). He gave two examples, which are never referred to when the misreporting of his words are repeated in the mainstream U.S. media. The first example is the fall of the Shah, which was because his own policies caused the citizens of Iran to reject his leadership, and NOT because Iran was invaded. The second example is the fall of the Soviet Union, again because of its government policies, and NOT because the USSR was invaded by an outside power.

    socalfitness saidI am totally amused how you guys only talk about Israel's military actions, but no problem with Hamas, rocket attacks, etc.


    Have you not read posts by caesarea4?
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    Oct 10, 2010 3:40 AM GMT
    tokugawa> I favor, and have always favored, peace with justice

    Anyone who has any training in conflict resolution understands that the above is actually warmongering nonsense.

    Peace isn't based on "justice". What is "justice" to one side is an injustice to the other.
    This is why peace is based on, is the result of, compromise.

    What tokugawa is actually advocated is "war forever" (until victory).

    To that end he will attempt to excuse, rationalize - even justify - Arab terrorism and the wholesale targeting and murder of innocent civilians:

    tokugawa> IS Israel which is the reason for the current terrorism.

    And worse:

    tokugawa> is it your opinion that they should just give up?

    As if the only alternative to terrorism is capitulation.
    (Is compromise a foreign concept to him?!)

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1157466


    In addition to that nonsense, tokugawa falsely compares the current Arab/Muslim terrorism to "Zionist terrorism" more than 60 years ago (which he hypocritically condemns, as if it was wrong then but is ok now).

    The British called Irgun/Lehi "terrorists" because they (primarily) attacked British SOLDIERS (the propagandists talk about blowing up the King David "hotel" but neglect that it was the British MILITARY HQ). While they did sometimes engage in RETALIATORY attacks against civilians (believing in dishing out a taste of their own medicine after Arab attacks on Jewish civilians), this was largely condemned by not only the Jewish Agency (the prestate authority analogous to the PA) but by the majority of Jews.

    Nor did it "work" but rather almost backfired (turning the Brits against them). What did "work" toward building a state (and the purpose of the Mandate) was institution building. This is why upon the termination of the Mandate and the withdrawal of British forces, the Jewish Agency declared independence. They were focused on building something. The analogous Arab institutions were lacking as they focused not on building their own state but on destroying the Jewish state.
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    Oct 10, 2010 11:12 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidThanks for that article. Israel (Zionist regime) is the main root cause the whole Middle East conflict.


    What is the purpose of putting Zionist regime in brackets?
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    Oct 10, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidWomen in Arabs countries are treated better than women are treated here in the U.S. In the U.S. we have so many killing, abuse, and rape crimes.


    False.

    And what about the poster's second question re: gays in Arab countries? Are they treated better in Arab countries too?
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 10, 2010 11:39 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidtokugawa> I favor, and have always favored, peace with justice

    Anyone who has any training in conflict resolution understands that the above is actually warmongering nonsense.


    C4's credo:

    Up is Down
    War is Peace
    Black is White
    Peace with Justice is Warmongering Nonsense
    Freedom is Slavery
    Ignorance is Strength

    Caesarea4 saidPeace isn't based on "justice". What is "justice" to one side is an injustice to the other.


    C4 considers it an "injustice" that over 700,000 Palestinians civilian refugees should be compensated for the crime of ethic cleansing and the crime of the theft of their property in 1948 (and hundreds of thousands more after 1967.)

    C4 considers it an "injustice" that Israel should apologize to the Palestinians for the massacres and ethnic cleansing which occurred in 1948.

    The so-called "generous offer" made by Israel's Prime Minister Barak at Camp David in 2000 contained NOTHING for the refugees. No compensation. No right of return. No apology. NOTHING. But Barak generously had no objection to allowing other nations [read: United States] to compensate the refugees. However, since other nations always had the ability to compensate the refugees, Barak actually offered NOTHING to the refugees.

    C4's concept of peace is a series of disconnected Bantustans for the Palestinians, which would lack such attributes of a sovereign nation as control of its airspace, control of its borders, and control of its water and other natural resources. Some compromise. This is all Israel has ever offered.

    It's like two people are discussing how to divide a pizza. The stronger of the two is eating the pizza, and preventing the other from it. Eventually, the stronger eats all of the pizza and the other gets nothing.
  • tokugawa

    Posts: 945

    Oct 11, 2010 12:12 AM GMT
    Caesarea4 said ... To that end he will attempt to excuse, rationalize - even justify - Arab terrorism and the wholesale targeting and murder of innocent civilians ...


    How do you justify your attempts to excuse, rationalize, even justify the massacre at Deir Yassin? You quote Benny Morris saying it was just a small massacre compared with other, larger massacres.

    How do you justify your attempts to excuse, rationalize, even justify the 20 other confirmed Zionist massacres of 1948? You say some of the massacres were small.

    I have never excused, rationalized or justified terrorism, either Zionist terrorism or Arab terrorism. I merely pointed out that the Zionist use of terrorism was so successful that it is no surprise that the Arabs should copy it, especially when Israel has constantly refused to compensate the refugees or permit their return. The refugees have tried every legal avenue available to them, and the door was always slammed in their face.

    Even Israeli Arabs, citizens of a country which you claim gives equal justice to all of its citizens, cannot reclaim the houses they own which they were evicted from in 1948 at gunpoint.

    From Wikipedia:

    "A present absentee is a Palestinian who fled or was expelled from his home in Palestine by Jewish or Israeli forces, before and during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, but who remained within the area that became the state of Israel. Present absentees are also referred to as internally displaced Palestinians (IDPs). The term applies to the present absentee's descendants too. In 1950 these were 46,000 of the 156,000 Palestinians in Israel.

    "Present absentees are not permitted to live in the homes they were expelled from, even if they live in the same area, the property still exists, and they can show that they own it. They are regarded as absent by the Israeli government because they left their homes, even if they did not intend to leave them for more than a few days, and even if they did so involuntarily."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Present_absentees


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    Oct 11, 2010 1:10 AM GMT
    pouncer> the Irgun aimed at destroying the southern wing of the hotel, which housed the Mandate's intelligence records about the Irgun, the Hagana, the Lehi, and other Jewish paramilitary groups. It was, in other words, a massacre in response to a police bust.

    Right. Unlike modern terrorists (to whom Tokugawa hypocritically and misleading compared them) the Irgun targeted files within the British Military HQ, not innocent civilians. Had the British military heeded a warning to evacuate the building, perhaps no one would have died.


    pouncer> Sounds like the Zionists wanted a full scale war with Britain then - which is what, alas, the British should have given them

    Once again we see the hate seep out from the war-monger. Note the sleight of hand of changing "Irgun" (which was a tiny number of "Zionists") with all Zionists. It's like saying that Britain should have givenn Ireland "full scale war".



    As usual, unable to defend his own comments, tokugawa lies about what I've said and uses that as an excuse to go on endlessly about the same propaganda BS that has already been refuted in numerous other topics.


    Peace isn't based on "justice". What is "justice" to one side is an injustice to the other.

    tokugawa> C4 considers it an "injustice" that over 700,000 Palestinians civilian refugees should be compensated for the crime of ethic cleansing and the crime of the theft of their property in 1948

    Just as 1 million Jewish refugees should be COMPENSATED.
    Why is it that you constantly drone on about one and never the other?
    (Not to mention that the refugees were the result of the 1948 Arab aggression.)
    No, it doesn't appear that your motive is "justice" but that you seek to abuse it.


    tokugawa> The so-called "generous offer" made by Israel's Prime Minister Barak at Camp David in 2000 contained NOTHING for the refugees.

    FAIL. The CLINTON compromise (which Barak was willing to accept) included $30 Billion in compensation (but only for the Arab refugees, nothing for the Jewish refugees) along with the option to "return" to the nascent Palestinian Arab state that would be formed.


    tokugawa> C4's concept of peace is a series of disconnected Bantustans for the Palestinians

    Wrong again. The Clinton compromise would have established an independent and sovereign Palestinian Arab state, CONTIGUOUS in Jordan's former "West Bank" and Gaza.

    "Bantustan" is of course just another soundbite/slogan meant not to inform but mislead. The Clinton compromse included a net 95% of the disputed territories (upped to 97% at Taba and 98% in the Olmert plan) whereas South African Bantustans amounted to only 14% of the territory and were not independent or sovereign.


    Peace is based on, is the result of, compromise.
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/354843
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1157466

    tokugawa> is it your opinion that they should just give up?

    As if the only alternative to terrorism is capitulation.
    (Is compromise a foreign concept to him?!)
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    Oct 11, 2010 8:01 AM GMT
    Once again pouncer is plagiarizing in order to selectively quote from an unattributed source:

    pouncer> the building contained the Criminal Investigation Division of the British military command. Irgun committed the attack in response to Operation Agatha, known within Israel then and now as "Black Saturday". British troops had raided the Jewish Agency on June 29th 1946 and confiscated large quantities of documents about the group's operations and links with violent groups. The intelligence information gathered was then duly taken to the King David Hotel. Specifically, the Irgun aimed at destroying the southern wing of the hotel, which housed the Mandate's intelligence records about the Irgun, the Hagana, the Lehi, and other Jewish paramilitary groups.

    Wikipedia> The building contained the British military command and their Criminal Investigation Division.[11] Security analyst Bruce Hoffman has written that the "Hotel housed the nerve centre of British rule in Palestine".[12] Specifically, the Irgun aimed at destroying the southern wing of the hotel, which housed the Mandate's intelligence records about Irgun, the Hagana, Lehi, and other Jewish paramilitary groups.

    Note the bolded statement which he omitted (because he wanted to form a different impression for the reader than that provided by his source). Once again an intentional attempt to deceive and mislead the reader rather than inform him.


    He drones on with similar idiocy:

    pouncer> commemorated by none other than Binyamin Netanyahu along with celebrated former Irgun terrorists. Unbelievably they blamed the murders on a lack of preparedness by the hotel and the British authorities

    Wikipedia> Its labelling as terrorism is contentious, however.[32] At the events to mark the 60th anniversary of the attack, Binyamin Netanyahu, then chairman of Likud and Leader of the Opposition in the Knesset, described the bombing as a legitimate act with a military target, distinguishing it from an act of terror intended to harm civilians. He said, "Imagine that Hamas or Hizbullah would call the military headquarters in Tel Aviv and say, 'We have placed a bomb and we are asking you to evacuate the area.' They don't do that. That is the difference."[5]

    Which brings us back to my original point, not challenged despite pouncer's voluminous cut & paste spam, that there is no comparison between "Zionist terrorism" of more than 60 years ago with the Arab terrorism (targeting and murdering innocent civilians, often by the busload) in the 60 years since:

    Unlike modern terrorists (to whom Tokugawa hypocritically and misleading compared them) the Irgun targeted files within the British Military HQ, not innocent civilians. Had the British military heeded a warning to evacuate the building, perhaps no one would have died.

    p> an Irgun distraction bomb was exploded in the street and caused panicked tenants and passers-by to gather back into the hotel for safety, which of course resulted in calamity.

    pouncer's source> detonated a small explosive in the street outside the hotel to reportedly keep passers-by away from the area.


    This is further emphasized by hs own source:

    Wikipedia> Security analyst Bruce Hoffman wrote of the bombing in his book Inside Terrorism that: "Unlike many terrorist groups today, the Irgun's strategy was NOT deliberately to target or wantonly harm civilians.

    To pretend that this was the inspiration or model for modern Arab/Muslim terrorism is completely off.
    To use the forrmer (prior to modern anti-terrorism treaties) to justify the latter is insane.