Not Gay Enough

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 27, 2010 6:17 PM GMT
    I can't help but feel very isolated, invalidated and confused at my situation. Whenever I talk about it; inevitably tempers flare and I usually encounter alot of hostility just for expressing something that I feel; the intent was never to cause hurt or be a source of prejudice. Let me repeat. My intent is not to express prejudice; I am merely stating my situation and the differences I see with a vast "public" majority of gay people, only because it is a source of major confusion to me.

    I grew up with gender typical traits. I have always liked typically masculine things, I act like a guy. I hang out with guys.

    So why do I feel like I am a minority within a minority. People who are well intentioned wont hesitate to jump up and state what i can't help but feel as somewhat of a Politically Correct response "not all gay people are feminine"...but, as like I said..I never seem to get what feels like a straight answer. I have yet to see a masculine existing guy with a same sex attraction. Am I an anomaly? I try to go to some gay functions to gain support (like every gay person wants) and I usually end up feeling more alone, misunderstood and isolated than ever. As soon as I open my mouth about it I am often immediately attacked for being intolerant and/or homophobic when in reality this is SO far off the mark it is not even applicable.
    I have heard that it is only the vocal and flamboyant majority of gay people who receive media and/or other attention and get noticed...but if this is true, which I think it is to a large degree; why can't we as gay people portray a more accurate image of what it means to be gay to the world. Effeminacy and difference is fine, even natural for some people; but there are other types of people, who I feel are underrepresented almost to the point of invisibility. This is why you have closeted 'straight' guys and men who feel they fit neither into the straight world, or the gay one. This is a HUGE problem, and I can say I deal with it all the time. People are largely ignorant, and most people receive their images and form their views and opinions of what a gay person is by what they see on tv shows, ads, magazines. etc. Frankly, I am sick to death of it. It makes me upset and frustrated to no end.

    I am just looking to fit in ( just like every other human being on this planet) and for some validation in this world.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 27, 2010 11:16 PM GMT
    I think you have some valid points but why do you need to fit in? I have the same observations of the high profile gay folk, they are more flamboyant than I am, but that doesn't bother me. You won't find a straighter 'gay' guy than me, but I don't really care. I think some femmes are totally hot, others not. I like different guys for different reasons. I find it a little harder in the gay lane trying to find gay guys like me, but not totally impossible. I find more that too many gay guys who are on these sites have such ridiculously unreal shopping lists, that if Jesus himself were gay, he wouldnt be good enuff.

    A good friend here helped me put things in perspective. Leave the labels to the clothing makers. Be yourself, fit where you fit and live your own life. You'll be so much happier.....all the best..Keithicon_cool.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 27, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    I inject all these through my arm everyday in order to feel fabulously fruity.

    Maybe this will help you feel like less of a minority?

    (I hope you don't mind being "poked.")

    1468729moq93mttmq.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 12:48 AM GMT
    Sylas saidSo why do I feel like I am a minority within a minority.
    Because the majority hasn't come out of the closet yet.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 12:56 AM GMT
    I asked basically the same question a while back and got some good responses here:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/868099/

    Just know things get better... people eventually accept you for who you are. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:14 AM GMT
    Yes, it is very frustrating: masculine guys won’t come out because they have no masculine role models and there are no masculine role models because they won’t come out.
    Yes, I have been discriminated against within the community as well for being too masculine, like it’s my fault I was born with a deep voice and a poor fashion sense.
    I recently had a conversation with a man I work with because of a comment he made: “I bet you never had a problem passing”. I was surprised at the level of hate because I was never called faggot in school. I wonder if I would have stayed in the closet so long if I had a problem “passing”.
    Truth is you cause your own isolationism; there are by my estimates way more masculine gay men out there then feminine, but you’re so stuck looking for some stereo-type you can’t see them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:17 AM GMT
    dunno, you sit on a paisly tablecloth next to a yorkshire terrier, i think you're getting there.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Sep 28, 2010 1:28 AM GMT
    There are tons of masculine gay men out there. I've had lots of guys going down on my cock that I would have even been shy to look at sideways in case they thought I was gay and beat me up! They hit on me, luckily, online. 10% of the population is gay, another 20% is bisexual. That's a third of men out there who like cock. (Not my numbers.) What percentage of men are flammy? Exactly. You're a majority in a minority. Relax dude.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:34 AM GMT
    Dude chill out, you're not the only one. I don't go around making topics about there being no other gay skater type dudes out there. It is what it is, take it or leave it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:37 AM GMT
    Because the so called "masculine" guys are many times the ones most likely to stay in the closet and allow themselves to be thought of as straight for fear of being compared to effeminate gays. This isn't true of all, but IMO there are alot of guys like this! You see them on RJ all the time!
    A classic example of being ones worst enemy. Silence=invisibility. Till more of the so called "manly" guys man up it'll always be an issue.
  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    Sep 28, 2010 1:40 AM GMT
    breakers saidDude chill out, you're not the only one. I don't go around making topics about there being no other gay skater type dudes out there. It is what it is, take it or leave it.




    In my hometown there are plenty of gay skater type dudes icon_surprised.gifP



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:43 AM GMT
    mcwclewis said
    breakers saidDude chill out, you're not the only one. I don't go around making topics about there being no other gay skater type dudes out there. It is what it is, take it or leave it.




    In my hometown there are plenty of gay skater type dudes icon_surprised.gifP



    lol really? How can I see for myself?
    icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:44 AM GMT
    Sylas saidISo why do I feel like I am a minority within a minority.

    Because you have internalized your homophobia so much, you dont even realize it.

    Put the Kool Aide down. You've drunk enough.

    And this is what that kind of attitude gets you...

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1160214
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Sep 28, 2010 1:49 AM GMT
    I can't help but feel very isolated, invalidated and confused at my situation. Whenever I talk about it; inevitably tempers flare and I usually encounter alot of hostility just for expressing something that I feel; the intent was never to cause hurt or be a source of prejudice. Let me repeat. My intent is not to express prejudice; I am merely stating my situation and the differences I see with a vast "public" majority of gay people, only because it is a source of major confusion to me

    But you're the one that's doing all the isolating

    If tempers are flaring whenever you open your mouth
    Think of what you're saying
    There are "masculine" gay men out there
    So where ever you're hanging out isn't the place to be

    Do the things you like to do
    Go where you like to go
    Don't just go where you THINK gay men will be
    That's just going to give the same problem you already have
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:54 AM GMT
    Hi friend, don't feel that way. There are plenty of gay men who fit into the masculine perception. There are athletes, actors, construction workers and such who are openly gay and have been through what you are going through. I encourage you to watch the documentary "The Butch Factor", it really opens ones eyes to the invincible majority out there.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Sep 28, 2010 1:56 AM GMT
    Unless you come out in a city with a huge gay community, the gays you meet early in your coming out process are going to be pretty much the worst gays you ever meet. And you will feel stifled beyond belief until you gradually build a network of friendships that expands your view of what gay people like. Some of this has to do with where you're at in life, and some of it may have to do with where you're at geographically. If it's a city gays tend to get the hell out of rather than flock to, that can add to the problem of finding people you're comfortable around. But even if you stay where you are, it won't be long before you can no longer say "I have yet to see" about a whole lot of things.

    Could you elaborate on how these conficts between you and other gays come up? I get the impression it has something to do with how they react to something you're saying, but I'm not clear on how the subject is coming up.

    But it may well have something to do with what a poster above brought up -- guys resenting you because they figure you haven't had to go through a lot of what they went through because you could "pass." They obviously don't realize the toll being able to do so has taken on you.

    At any rate, it sounds like however you're expressing your feelings ends up triggering intense feelings on their part too -- maybe you remind them of that asshole who bullied them, etc. You'll get better at avoiding that, especially if you're willing to listen to effeminate guys and hear where they're coming from.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 1:58 AM GMT
    I completely agree with you!

    And to the guys who reacted negatively to his post, please remember that we ALL know how hard it can be and we've been there before/are there.

    That being said, I am right there with you too. Nothing against a gay guy who is 'stereotypical' but that's just one side of it all. The thing of it is, men who are more fem are the ones who are notices as different. Men who are not fem just blend in, making it hard for everybody to see the diversity of all gay people.

    I think the only thing we can do is come out (when you are ready) and show everyone around us that "hey im me, im gay, and i act the way i act because im being me" We can't change the whole worlds view of homosexuality, but we can change the views of the people in our lives.

    There are a TON of other guys out there that would make you feel like finally you met your people. They are either scared to come out (understandably) or may be in denial etc.

    Hang in there!
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Sep 28, 2010 2:05 AM GMT
    No, you're not an anomaly. There are other guys just like you on this forum. The hostility you receive is probably linked to how you present your views. My initial reaction to your post is that you're trying too hard to identify yourself as an other, so I can only imagine what you would say in a face to face conversation. You wouldn't get hostility from me, just irritation.

    Stop looking to fit in. Stop looking for validation from others. You'll never be satisfied.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 9:18 AM GMT
    xassantex saiddunno, you sit on a paisly tablecloth next to a yorkshire terrier, i think you're getting there.


    hahahaha kudo's you said exactly what I was thinking!

    What does it matter anyway. Just be yourself and don't try and fit in. There really is nothing to fit in too. Just be yourself enjoy yourself, beyour own best friend, enjoy your other friends and whether or not you have more masculine features is pretty irrelevant.

    Why?

    Well mostly because no one cares as much about you than you so you're probably the only one noticing how strangly masculine you are.
  • handsoffire

    Posts: 178

    Sep 28, 2010 9:47 AM GMT
    I met my guy hiking in the grand canyon on a rock climbing/hiking trip. I'm just where I have the most fun and look for folks there that I connect with. That and I'm a total sucker for a shy smile.
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    Sep 28, 2010 11:23 AM GMT
    I can only mimic what has been already said before me.

    Embrace who you are and not what you think you "should be".

    Not everyone is the same, and in this day and age that is a blessing. As for not meeting someone like you, I say keep trying. There are plenty of people out there, and not all of them are the same. (minus the whole likin men thing heh).

    Keep your chin up!
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Sep 28, 2010 11:53 AM GMT
    Sylas, this is directed at gay teens who are still dealing with isolation in high school, but I think you might be able to relate to these guys, especially the one on the right.

  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Sep 28, 2010 12:04 PM GMT
    OP, trust me you are not alone in your feelings. I happen to feel the same way as you do. However, I have been fortunate enough to meet guys like me and have to say they are out there but there are not many. However, these guys have things about them that I do not care much for but I love them because of who are they are as a person and not some of the things they do. I am also older and little more tolerant as well. I think in time you will become like many forget about trying to fit in and just look for people who are similar to you. I do not think you need worry about fitting in but more or less just finding your nitch.

    good luck
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Sep 28, 2010 12:10 PM GMT
    slimnmuscly saidSylas, this is directed at gay teens who are still dealing with isolation in high school, but I think you might be able to relate to these guys, especially the one on the right.

    slimnmuscly, thank you for posting this. I really enjoyed listening to them talk about there experiences.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 28, 2010 12:11 PM GMT
    Everything about you says testosterone, Rambo, WWF, warrior, butch. You are truly unique. I'll pray for you.