"For all you in the business community who are rooting for a Republican victory in the November elections, a bit of unsolicited advice: Be careful what you wish for. "

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    Sep 29, 2010 2:19 PM GMT
    "For all you in the business community who are rooting for a Republican victory in the November elections, a bit of unsolicited advice: Be careful what you wish for.

    I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that, once the heat of the election season has passed, cooler heads will prevail and DeMint and the other anti-government zealots will return to their rightful place on the fringes of the political system, leaving it to the grown-ups to get things done. Don't kid yourselves. You're about to create a political monster that you can't control, one bent not on reforming but on destroying the institutional framework that allows an advanced industrial economy to grow and thrive.

    Here is the hard political reality: You can't expect to support and finance political candidates who preach that government is menacing and wasteful, that public employees are incompetent and corrupt, that taxes are always too high and destroy jobs, and then turn around and expect that the government will respond to your demands to hold down the cost of health care, or fund basic research, or provide good schools, efficient courts and reliable transportation systems.

    This doesn't mean the business community should run out and support liberal or Democratic candidates, or abandon the party that favors smaller government, low tax rates and light-touch regulation. What it does mean, however, is that you shouldn't encourage a political dynamic in which the goal is total victory, compromise is considered defeat and moderates are driven out.

    It's convenient to blame the media, or cable news or the blogosphere for this state of political polarization. To that list of culprits I'd add you - business leaders who, in order to score modest wins in legislative or regulatory battles, make common cause with those who trample on the truth, poison the political conversation, demonize opponents and undermine respect and support for government. ... "

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    Sep 29, 2010 5:25 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidThat's why I want Tea Party candidates to win, regardless of what party they are affiliated with.

    Most of the current Republicans holding office in DC are fiscal liberals who believe in growing the government's spending (as we can see by looking at the years 2000-2006).


    All tea party candidates are republicans....
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    Sep 29, 2010 5:38 PM GMT
    I see an intellectual inconsistency in expecting a 'populist' movement such as the tea party to be able to make the highly unpopular moves necessary to reducing government deficit. These moves are:

    i) Reducing entitlement to Social Security
    ii) Cutting Medicare and Medicaid and imposing strict cost controls [I believe the Republicans referred to these as "death panels"]
    iii) Cutting the perpetual blank check extended to the military.
    iv) Letting the Bush tax cuts expire.

    The problem is essentially the demographic one of the gimme-gimme-gimme baby boomers who, having looted the planet, have no intention of paying for the party.

    Would that we were rid of them.
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    Sep 29, 2010 7:17 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    TigerTim saidI see an intellectual inconsistency in expecting a 'populist' movement such as the tea party to be able to make the highly unpopular moves necessary to reducing government deficit.


    Yeah, but we're at the point where the people currently holding office in both parties have demonstrated their inability to do so, so why not give someone new a try? (Especially if they are campaigning on doing these "highly unpopular" things).





    TigerTim saidThe problem is essentially the demographic one of the gimme-gimme-gimme baby boomers who, having looted the planet, have no intention of paying for the party.

    Would that we were rid of them.


    Yeah, I know. Agree 100%.


    The problem with this is that none of the Tea Party candidates have the capacity to actually govern. They are either right-wing religious nuts (O'Donnell, Angle) who know nothing about government or economics or business, or hardcore pro-corporatist parading a "family values" plank they don't believe in to win TP support (Paladino, Paul). In either event, they are even more partisan than those they might replace and, therefore unlikely to actually move legislation.
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    Sep 29, 2010 7:29 PM GMT
    It's also a matter of ethics. If somebody like O'Donnell can lie on their resumes about getting their education from Oxford or Claremont (the college, not the Institute), what else are they going to lie about? E.g. that you can't make the debt go away without making cuts in benefits or raising taxes? More likely, once they get elected, they won't concentrate on the economic issues and just drive home their social biases.
    Unless they really can't do math.icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Webster666

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    Oct 01, 2010 12:42 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidThat's why I want Tea Party candidates to win, regardless of what party they are affiliated with.

    Most of the current Republicans holding office in DC are fiscal liberals who believe in growing the government's spending (as we can see by looking at the years 2000-2006).




    THAT'S why I want Teabagger Republicans to get the Republican NOMINATIONS, because normal people will not vote for those beyond the Republican lunatic fringe candidates.
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    Oct 01, 2010 1:14 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidTHAT'S why I want Teabagger Republicans to get the Republican NOMINATIONS, because normal people will not vote for those beyond the Republican lunatic fringe candidates.

    You give US voters too much credit. They WILL vote for lunatics, because FOX News is telling them they should. There are not as many "normal" American voters as you think. Too many of them will listen to right-wing propagandists like SB, even here, and betray their own best interests.
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    Oct 01, 2010 2:48 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    q1w2e3 saidIt's also a matter of ethics. If somebody like O'Donnell can lie on their resumes about getting their education from Oxford or Claremont (the college, not the Institute), what else are they going to lie about?


    Kind of like Vice President Biden and his lies about his "academic achievement:"

    He added that he ''went to law school on a full academic scholarship - the only one in my class to have a full academic scholarship,'' adding that he ''ended up in the top half'' of his class (not true) and ''graduated with three degrees from college" (not true).

    Five months later, Biden acknowledged that he graduated 76th in a class of 85. ''I did not graduate in the top half of my class at law school and my recollection of this was inaccurate," he said in a statement. He graduated with one degree -- a B.A. -- in two majors, history and political science.


    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/joe-bidens-mout.html





    But, Joe Biden is not a scary witch, SB.
    O'Donnell is.
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    Oct 01, 2010 3:15 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    q1w2e3 saidIt's also a matter of ethics. If somebody like O'Donnell can lie on their resumes about getting their education from Oxford or Claremont (the college, not the Institute), what else are they going to lie about?


    Kind of like Vice President Biden and his lies about his "academic achievement:"

    He added that he ''went to law school on a full academic scholarship - the only one in my class to have a full academic scholarship,'' adding that he ''ended up in the top half'' of his class (not true) and ''graduated with three degrees from college" (not true).

    Five months later, Biden acknowledged that he graduated 76th in a class of 85. ''I did not graduate in the top half of my class at law school and my recollection of this was inaccurate," he said in a statement. He graduated with one degree -- a B.A. -- in two majors, history and political science.


    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/joe-bidens-mout.html




    See? Again, you cannot be a neutral actor here. There is a major difference between overstating your qualifications, which many do, and making up those qualifications out of whole cloth.
  • rioriz

    Posts: 1056

    Oct 01, 2010 4:21 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Webster666 saidTHAT'S why I want Teabagger Republicans to get the Republican NOMINATIONS, because normal people will not vote for those beyond the Republican lunatic fringe candidates.

    You give US voters too much credit. They WILL vote for lunatics, because FOX News is telling them they should. There are not as many "normal" American voters as you think. Too many of them will listen to right-wing propagandists like SB, even here, and betray their own best interests.


    I agree that people give some of the US voters too much credit...BUT I think it goes both ways and I feel that a lot of it is caused by both parties putting up sub par candidates and feeding us BS. You can deny it if you want, but I know PLENTY and I say PLENTY of people who voted for Obama because he was Black. Asked them about what he stood for on certain issues and I heard crickets...same goes for far right winged zealots who will swallow anything Sarah Palin throws at them. The issue is people need to become more educated and learn to think for themselves and not what the media, left or right, tells them.

    I personally would abstain from voting in Delaware cause I am not happy with either candidate even though I would prefer a more conservative House. I am also growing tired of the Foxnews is the devil talk. I personally watch it all the time but you know what? Surprise! I have a mind of my own and can separate what I see as real news and propaganda. And yes they do have real news...there is more on during the day than Beck Hannity and O Reily opinion programming! Every channel has opinion programming...different than news programs. There is a reason it has been number one for so very long. People need to hear both sides of the story. There are always two sides isn't that what we are taught as children. I can get the Liberal side on a number of channels ( i watch some MSNBC too) but can only get a more conservative side on Fox and as an intellectual make up my own mind. I know many minorities of race and sex who think the same way. In THAT sense people are not giving the viewers enough credit!
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    Oct 01, 2010 7:54 PM GMT
    rioriz said
    Art_Deco said
    Webster666 saidTHAT'S why I want Teabagger Republicans to get the Republican NOMINATIONS, because normal people will not vote for those beyond the Republican lunatic fringe candidates.

    You give US voters too much credit. They WILL vote for lunatics, because FOX News is telling them they should. There are not as many "normal" American voters as you think. Too many of them will listen to right-wing propagandists like SB, even here, and betray their own best interests.


    I agree that people give some of the US voters too much credit...BUT I think it goes both ways and I feel that a lot of it is caused by both parties putting up sub par candidates and feeding us BS. You can deny it if you want, but I know PLENTY and I say PLENTY of people who voted for Obama because he was Black. Asked them about what he stood for on certain issues and I heard crickets...same goes for far right winged zealots who will swallow anything Sarah Palin throws at them. The issue is people need to become more educated and learn to think for themselves and not what the media, left or right, tells them.

    I personally would abstain from voting in Delaware cause I am not happy with either candidate even though I would prefer a more conservative House. I am also growing tired of the Foxnews is the devil talk. I personally watch it all the time but you know what? Surprise! I have a mind of my own and can separate what I see as real news and propaganda. And yes they do have real news...there is more on during the day than Beck Hannity and O Reily opinion programming! Every channel has opinion programming...different than news programs. There is a reason it has been number one for so very long. People need to hear both sides of the story. There are always two sides isn't that what we are taught as children. I can get the Liberal side on a number of channels ( i watch some MSNBC too) but can only get a more conservative side on Fox and as an intellectual make up my own mind. I know many minorities of race and sex who think the same way. In THAT sense people are not giving the viewers enough credit!




    There were a lot more people who voted for McCain/Palin because they are NOT black than there were who voted for Obama because he is.
    You may be "tired of Foxnews is the devil talk", but I'm tired of whites whining about how blacks have it so easy. As if white Americans are some oppressed minority.
    TOTAL BS.

    And NO (LOL!) no one is saying that Fox "News" is "the devil".
    What we're saying is that Fox is a right-wing propaganda machine which LIES every time they claim to be "fair and balanced".
    They are NOT.

    And we got more PROOF of that today.

    http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/10/01/fox_news_chamber_commerce