One just seen Governor Romney's speech at the NH GOP State Convention.

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    Sep 29, 2010 10:54 PM GMT
    I as an Aussie, I found it to be inspirational, inspiring, and it made even me feel Pride in America.

    Go Mitt.icon_cool.gif

    Chilleryicon_twisted.gif never made me feel like that!
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    Sep 29, 2010 11:19 PM GMT
    While I am Libertarian and would like a Republican or Libertarian President I dont see anything inspiring about Mitt Romney. He is the biggest fraud in politics. I know I lived under him while he was Governor. When I listen to him all I see is a used car salesman. He practically bankrupted the state with Romneycare also known as Obamacare.
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    Sep 29, 2010 11:39 PM GMT
    His political positions are mostly Republican social goals, but he can compromise with a Democratic legislature. Whether compromise is a good thing is not the point here, because it's mostly forced on him by more reasonable people. For example:
    wikipediaWhen the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled in favor of legalized same-sex marriage in 2003, Romney lobbied for a state constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage but allow civil unions.[189] He explained in 2005: "From day one I've opposed the move for same-sex marriage and its equivalent, civil unions.... I am only supporting civil unions if gay marriage is the alternative."[189]


    At least he's able to realize that raising fees and taxes are necessary to balance the budget, but then he tries to promise that he won't raise taxes.
    as Mass governorRomney supported raising various fees by more than $300 million, including those for driver's licenses, marriage licenses, and gun licenses.[81] Romney increased the state gasoline fee by 2 cents per gallon, generating about $60 million per year in additional revenue.[69] Romney also closed tax loopholes that brought in another $181 million from businesses over the next two years.


    He should be proud of the health care legislation in Mass. but due to his political position he's obligated to trash similar efforts at the federal level.

    If he can only do what his book says (i.e. avoid social issues and use government as a necessary force for progress):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Apology:_The_Case_for_American_GreatnessThe book avoids anecdotes about Romney's personal or political life and focuses much of its attention on a substantive presentation of his views on economic and geopolitical matters, including his inveighing against the resurgence of populism.[2][4] Government is seen as having some valuable roles, such as fostering innovation and expanding health insurance coverage to everyone.[2] The book largely avoids discussion of social issues.


    And who's this famous caddy that Obama has? I would like to know what he has to say, because surely Romney knows his thoughts.
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    Sep 30, 2010 12:02 AM GMT
    I think in many ways countries like Australia should stop and look at America, and look at how many of it's seemingly advancements, have in fact taken it backwards. I know Australia being effected by many American trends have not always had a positive effect on my wonderful country.

    America really lost it's way by the end of WWII, and it really never found it's way again. I think this is why I found Governor Romney's speech so inspiring. Australia needs to move away from modern Americanism, and go our own direction too, as we are not an annex of America.

    Has Obama been good for America?

    I know with what he has cost Oz in time and money, he has not been good for us.
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    Sep 30, 2010 12:49 AM GMT
    aunty_jack saidI think in many ways countries like Australia should stop and look at America, and look at how many of it's seemingly advancements, have in fact taken it backwards. I know Australia being effected by many American trends have not always had a positive effect on my wonderful country.

    America really lost it's way by the end of WWII, and it really never found it's way again. I think this is why I found Governor Romney's speech so inspiring. Australia needs to move away from modern Americanism, and go our own direction too, as we are not an annex of America.

    Has Obama been good for America?

    I know with what he has cost Oz in time and money, he has not been good for us.


    Well if you love Obamacare then you should love Romney, because Romney also loves government run healthcare. Of course Romney has flipflopped on every issue so who even knows where this fraud stands.
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    Sep 30, 2010 12:58 AM GMT
    My family left Switzerland, to come to this great big Island Oz, as pioneers. They left Switzerland, to come to this great big Island Oz as pioneers to a land with no infrastructure; nothing. yet as pioneers they helped build this Great Southern land. But...we have new Australians, left wingers who would like to undo all that hard work, to build this great Southern land, and turn it into a republic, with a dictator as Head of State; Is Russia any better off since it became a Republic?

    Just as Americas forefathers left all the benefits of Europe, to go to a foreign land, where they had to face starvation, and many other ordeals. But the people who founded your nation, did it with love and liberty.

    keep America the land of Liberty and the hope of the earth, because if America falls, we all may well fall.

    The Liberals told you they want to change Government, but they lied to you, they want to change America. As we now can look back in hindsight,not all change brings advancement, it can take us backwards, and be detrimental. Not all ways of the past are outdated, and primitive either.
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    Sep 30, 2010 1:06 AM GMT
    The liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.
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    Sep 30, 2010 1:21 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidThe liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.

    This is Alice In Wonderland stuff.
    What has failed, repeatedly and everywhere, is conservatism.
    It destroys everything it touches. Including, apparently, your humanity, assuming you started with any.


    Thanks for saving me the typing. icon_wink.gif
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    Sep 30, 2010 1:45 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidThe liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.

    This is Alice In Wonderland stuff.
    What has failed, repeatedly and everywhere, is conservatism.
    It destroys everything it touches. Including, apparently, your humanity, assuming you started with any.


    Thanks for saving me the typing. icon_wink.gif

    Both you guys are ideologically driven, sheep, dishonest, and based on your non-arguments, or false arguments from your posts, demonstrating very limited intellect. You both shoot blanks.
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    Sep 30, 2010 7:34 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    jprichva saidThis is the sort of smug blather one always gets from the right.
    Limited intellect?
    As someone once pointed out, not all conservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are conservative.


    Incorrect.


    Yes but all my bills are paid. I don't seek hand outs, and I'm much loved, and am so secure in my self I can vote for the better of my county, and put it first.

    But then some people like JP misinterpreted having a sharp bitter mouth as being intelligent, now how dumb and ignorant can you get.

    If the bills are not payed off, and you don't have money in the bank. How can the government pay your health care for you, or to educate your children for you? How can they give all those hand outs you expect them too.

    I can't belive there are people so blind they would of been happy to put another Clinton in the White Hose after what the first one did to it.

    Lets not forget the Clinton body count Either.

    GO MItt, I'm rooting for ya mate.

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    Sep 30, 2010 10:20 PM GMT
    aunty_jack said
    southbeach1500 said
    jprichva saidThis is the sort of smug blather one always gets from the right.
    Limited intellect?
    As someone once pointed out, not all conservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are conservative.


    Incorrect.


    Yes but all my bills are paid. I don't seek hand outs, and I'm much loved, and am so secure in my self I can vote for the better of my county, and put it first.

    But then some people like JP misinterpreted having a sharp bitter mouth as being intelligent, now how dumb and ignorant can you get.

    If the bills are not payed off, and you don't have money in the bank. How can the government pay your health care for you, or to educate your children for you? How can they give all those hand outs you expect them too.

    I can't belive there are people so blind they would of been happy to put another Clinton in the White Hose after what the first one did to it.

    Lets not forget the Clinton body count Either.

    GO MItt, I'm rooting for ya mate.



    While it seems that you and I agree politically I dont know how you can buy the garbage that Romney is selling. I am a Libertarian who is against taxes and big government, but I would almost rather have Hillary than Mitt. At least you know where Hillary stands. My number one pick for President is Senator John Thune from South Dakota. He has an MBA, worked in the Reagan Administration, and has been consistently for less government and less taxes.

  • rioriz

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    Oct 01, 2010 4:32 AM GMT
    ^^^^^ I agree on the Romney bit but I would still support him in an election in 2012 barring he doesn't do something stupid and pick Palin as his running mate.

    I would LOVE Paul Ryan to step up but I feel his time has not yet come...
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    Oct 01, 2010 6:52 AM GMT
    rioriz said^^^^^ I agree on the Romney bit but I would still support him in an election in 2012 barring he doesn't do something stupid and pick Palin as his running mate.

    I would LOVE Paul Ryan to step up but I feel his time has not yet come...


    You know what, Ms. Palin never bothered me, nor did I ever fell threatend by her for being a Christain. But I agree it may well be a mistake, if Mitt, did pick her, not sure that would get the votes.
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    Oct 01, 2010 3:27 PM GMT
    rioriz said^^^^^ I agree on the Romney bit but I would still support him in an election in 2012 barring he doesn't do something stupid and pick Palin as his running mate.

    I would LOVE Paul Ryan to step up but I feel his time has not yet come...


    Man, Paul Ryan would be awesome, but you are right, he's just not old enough.
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    Oct 01, 2010 3:45 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidThe liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.

    This is Alice In Wonderland stuff.
    What has failed, repeatedly and everywhere, is conservatism.
    It destroys everything it touches. Including, apparently, your humanity, assuming you started with any.


    Thanks for saving me the typing. icon_wink.gif

    Both you guys are ideologically driven, sheep, dishonest, and based on your non-arguments, or false arguments from your posts, demonstrating very limited intellect. You both shoot blanks.


    LOL. socalfitness - All you do is post conservative talking points. You never address anyone's arguments against them, or you pile on praise for your right-wing compatriots.

    The primary difference between the policies you advocate and the ones jprichva and I do, is that yours have all failed (trickle down economics, deregulation, etc.) and all of ours (progressive taxation, regulation of capital markets, increased unionization, etc.) have led to the greatest times of economic expansion in our country's history.

    I will put my intellect up against yours and two of your buddies any day of the week.
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    Oct 01, 2010 4:03 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidThe liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.

    This is Alice In Wonderland stuff.
    What has failed, repeatedly and everywhere, is conservatism.
    It destroys everything it touches. Including, apparently, your humanity, assuming you started with any.


    Thanks for saving me the typing. icon_wink.gif

    Both you guys are ideologically driven, sheep, dishonest, and based on your non-arguments, or false arguments from your posts, demonstrating very limited intellect. You both shoot blanks.


    LOL. socalfitness - All you do is post conservative talking points. You never address anyone's arguments against them, or you pile on praise for your right-wing compatriots.

    The primary difference between the policies you advocate and the ones jprichva and I do, is that yours have all failed (trickle down economics, deregulation, etc.) and all of ours (progressive taxation, regulation of capital markets, increased unionization, etc.) have led to the greatest times of economic expansion in our country's history.

    I will put my intellect up against yours and two of your buddies any day of the week.

    I don't waste time with you because you have already demonstrated your ad hominems and your lack of intellect. Specifically, when you were debating a cowboy a couple of weeks ago, he provided government data to back up his logic. You responded with irrelevant garbage. Finally, when you had nothing left, you started calling him names, completely out of the blue. He intended an honest discussion, showing more patience with you than most of us would. Based on your own behavior and degree of intellect, he stripped you totally naked. If there is a god, he must be merciful, because he spared you the embarrassment of realizing you were stripped naked.
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    Oct 01, 2010 4:16 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    I don't waste time with you because you have already demonstrated your ad hominems and your lack of intellect. Specifically, when you were debating a cowboy a couple of weeks ago, he provided government data to back up his logic. You responded with irrelevant garbage. Finally, when you had nothing left, you started calling him names, completely out of the blue. He intended an honest discussion, showing more patience with you than most of us would. Based on your own behavior and degree of intellect, he stripped you totally naked. If there is a god, he must be merciful, because he spared you the embarrassment of realizing you were stripped naked.


    Listen, I'm not opposed to being stripped down by a cowboy, but your recollection of that argument is so far from reality that it borders on delusional.

    I encourage you to re-read that thread wherein your cowboy's "government data" actually contradicted his argument. And then he launched into calling me a "leech" because I work for a nonprofit.
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    Oct 01, 2010 4:24 PM GMT
    Get back to me when Conservatives/Libertarians stop thinking profit is everything. Destruction of the environment and the suffering of people are not things that should turn a profit.
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    Oct 04, 2010 3:33 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    Christian73 said
    jprichva said
    socalfitness saidThe liberals choose to ignore all the failed progressive policies of various degrees in Western, Central, and Eastern Europe. Beginning November and continuing in 2012 we will find our way back. We will make this country something to be proud of, not apologize for and, find our way up instead of managing a decline into mediocrity.

    This is Alice In Wonderland stuff.
    What has failed, repeatedly and everywhere, is conservatism.
    It destroys everything it touches. Including, apparently, your humanity, assuming you started with any.


    Thanks for saving me the typing. icon_wink.gif

    Both you guys are ideologically driven, sheep, dishonest, and based on your non-arguments, or false arguments from your posts, demonstrating very limited intellect. You both shoot blanks.


    LOL. socalfitness - All you do is post conservative talking points. You never address anyone's arguments against them, or you pile on praise for your right-wing compatriots.

    The primary difference between the policies you advocate and the ones jprichva and I do, is that yours have all failed (trickle down economics, deregulation, etc.) and all of ours (progressive taxation, regulation of capital markets, increased unionization, etc.) have led to the greatest times of economic expansion in our country's history.

    I will put my intellect up against yours and two of your buddies any day of the week.



    You cannot be serious. The policies you advocate "have led to the greatest times of economic expansion in our country's history" ! You need to stop reading Howard Zinns revisionsit history and start reading real history.

    Progressive taxation, really? Are you aware that because the US has one of the most progressive taxation systems in the world, it also has one of the most complex ,at more than 60,000 pages ,tax codes? Are you totally unaware that the only time that progressive taxes have led to economic growth is when they were cut? Are you unaware that the economic boom of the "roaring 20s" was a result of the Coolidge tax cuts? The only time we have seen an economic expansion under progressive taxation has been when the taxes were cut as under Coolidge,Kennedy, Regan, Clinton and Bush.
    Are you completely unaware that Hong Kong has always had a form of flat tax and they have always hade a vibrant economy. Are you aware that many European countries have moved from a progressive tax to a form of flat tax and experienced great periods of growth? Are you aware that since Russia has moved away from the old Marxist progressive tax system the economy has boomed? Progressive taxation does nothing but stifle economic growth.

    http://www.calvin-coolidge.org/html/coolidge_s_legacy.html

    http://flattaxes.blogspot.com/2010/09/flat-tax-countries-and-jurisdictions.html

    http://www.hoover.org/research/projects-and-programs/russian-economy/6102
    I can give you more sources and I assure you that they don't contradict anything I've said , as you have misrepresented.

    Regulation of capital markets, are you sure? You're obviously not aware of the study in 2006 from Committee on Capital Markets Regulation that shows that the US Capital markets are becomming less and less competitive with the rest of the world because of too much regulation and unwise regulation? Are you aware that Canada has less and smarter regulation in their Capital markets and they are having none of the problems we are having?

    http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1862

    http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2009/0423_canada_nivola.aspx

    http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/eblj/issues/volume2/number1/13.%20Rose%20Article-%20Final%20Book.pdf
    There are many more sources showing the same conclusions.

    Increased unionization? really? Are you completely unaware of the unfunded union pension funds? Are you totally unaware that the legacy pension costs of unions played a large roll in the decline in the US auto industry and many other industries? Are you completely uneducated when it comes to understanding that the costs of unionization was a factor in the decline of many US industraialized cities?

    http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/v1258401147.pdf

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/71234

    http://www.roubini.com/us-monitor/254527/eight_basic_economic_arguments_against_a_bailout_of_the_auto_industry

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj30n1/cj30n1-6.pdf

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/23/unions-out-of-step-with-us-private-sector/
    Are you really going to try and tell anyone that those policies have led an economic expansion? Look around you, we arn't exactly booming! And you have the nerve to tell someone else they are delusional, when you arn't even aware of what you are talking about.
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    Oct 04, 2010 3:35 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    socalfitness said
    I don't waste time with you because you have already demonstrated your ad hominems and your lack of intellect. Specifically, when you were debating a cowboy a couple of weeks ago, he provided government data to back up his logic. You responded with irrelevant garbage. Finally, when you had nothing left, you started calling him names, completely out of the blue. He intended an honest discussion, showing more patience with you than most of us would. Based on your own behavior and degree of intellect, he stripped you totally naked. If there is a god, he must be merciful, because he spared you the embarrassment of realizing you were stripped naked.


    Listen, I'm not opposed to being stripped down by a cowboy, but your recollection of that argument is so far from reality that it borders on delusional.

    I encourage you to re-read that thread wherein your cowboy's "government data" actually contradicted his argument. And then he launched into calling me a "leech" because I work for a nonprofit.


    Where to start here?
    First of all, I wouldn't strip you down, up, left or right.
    Second, you may want to read that thread again. It was you who made personal attacks on me first (angry and bitter come to mind).

    I realize that for people like you the "Big Lie" is your best weapon, but it no longer works on people like me. Tell a lie loud enough and often enough doesn't make it truth anymore. Just because you didn't read the sources I gave doesn't mean they contradicted what I said. Perhaps you can show me the contradicitions using my same sources, if you are able to understand financial reports and such? As for "government data" it came directly from the CBO and the treasury.

    As I already pointed out, you were the one who began the personal attacks. You always resort to personal attacks when it doesn't go your way. The problem is that when someone gives you as good as you gave, you cry foul like a little girl. If you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out! As for calling you a leach, it wasn't because you work for a nonprofit. It was because you castigate people like me who make a profit, when it is because of people like me ,that people like you are able to exist. If people like me didn't make a profit, there would be no money for your nonprofit to pay your salary or taxes to pay for the social programs and all of the other things you like so much. You equate a paying job with service and tell me that you know more about service than people like me do. The truth is that what people like you know about service could be fit on the head of a pin. What people like me know about service people like you will never understand if you live to be 110 years old. People like you who claim to serve the interests of others, only serve your own interests. People like me who serve our own self interest serve more people in a day than you will in a lifetime.

    You realy want to call someone else delusional when everything that comes out of you is so far from reality it borders on insanity!




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    Oct 05, 2010 2:47 AM GMT
    shybuffguy,

    When some guys start threads asking why RJ members maintain conservative viewpoints, I have felt tempted to tell them to search your messages, read them, and study the references.

    From my perspective, I have seen the total failure of the progressive policies in Europe. I have been on both sides of the iron curtain, know people from the DDR (East Germany) who successfully escaped for the freedom from progressive economics. They felt they would never see their parents again, but felt compelled to make the sacrifice. I have met others who tried to escape but were caught and imprisoned. Their escapes and attempted escapes were driven by the stifling economic conditions that come with progressivism. Another friend is in his mid 30s and started an tech company in an Eastern European city. He has approx. 40 employees. While he did not experience socialism as an adult, his family did and he is very aware of the differences. If some of the guys on RJ could get away from their revisionist textbooks and defective theories and ideas and actually met people who really understand what a free market place is all about, they might wise up. But maybe not.