Freedom of Speech-Freedom of Religion

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    Oct 02, 2010 7:32 PM GMT
    You cant yell "Fire" in a crowded theater and claim freedom of speech. Should you be able to say loathsome things about a class of people and claim freedom of religion?

    In light of the recent spate of gay teen suicides, I am wondering if a limit on freedom of religion couldnt be drawn when it is used to protect hate speech against a class of people.

    Freedom of Religion should be Freedom of Hate Speech.
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    Oct 02, 2010 7:37 PM GMT
    I am no lawyer, but I am unaware of anyone claiming freedom of religion gives them a right to commit crimes successfully arguing so in court.
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    Oct 02, 2010 7:49 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidI am no lawyer, but I am unaware of anyone claiming freedom of religion gives them a right to commit crimes successfully arguing so in court.

    Does speech from religious organizations condemning, degrading, and demeaning gays such that young people feel so bad about themselves that they commit society count as hate speech? And is that speech being protected by Freedom of Religion?
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    Oct 02, 2010 7:50 PM GMT
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    Oct 02, 2010 7:54 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said

    Ok...and let them pay taxes like the rest of us.
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    Oct 02, 2010 8:06 PM GMT
    Caslon15000 saidDoes speech from religious organizations condemning, degrading, and demeaning gays such that young people feel so bad about themselves that they commit society count as hate speech? And is that speech being protected by Freedom of Religion?


    Again, I am no lawyers, but I don't think that is prosecutable. Oh, they are horrible, disgusting human beings and I hope everything they love dies before their very eyes and they live a long painful life.

    You can't yell fire in a crowded theater because it creates an immediate danger. Hate speech against gays or other minorities is constant noise in the culture and so doesn't create an immediate danger though there are horrible consequences. That is my understanding of it and I wont defend it because I am deeply conflicted on the issue.
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    Oct 02, 2010 9:26 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Caslon15000 saidDoes speech from religious organizations condemning, degrading, and demeaning gays such that young people feel so bad about themselves that they commit society count as hate speech? And is that speech being protected by Freedom of Religion?


    Again, I am no lawyers, but I don't think that is prosecutable. Oh, they are horrible, disgusting human beings and I hope everything they love dies before their very eyes and they live a long painful life.

    You can't yell fire in a crowded theater because it creates an immediate danger. Hate speech against gays or other minorities is constant noise in the culture and so doesn't create an immediate danger though there are horrible consequences. That is my understanding of it and I wont defend it because I am deeply conflicted on the issue.

    Not prosecutable now. But the law could be changed. "You cant speak your religious views on the morals of other people outside of your house of worship. Preach all you want to those that want to be preached to. But keep it in your church, etc." Something like that.
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    Oct 02, 2010 9:43 PM GMT
    Caslon15000 saidFreedom of Religion should be is used as an excuse for Freedom of Hate Speech.
    Fixed.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    In my life I have met many loving christians! Even my 95 YO. Mormon Grandmother is full of love for me, and lord forbid if any Mormon put me down in front of her, just because I am a poofter.

    Yet here at RJ, I have endured many hate ridden atheist.

    Sorry the list is way to long to name You all; but you know who you are.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:21 PM GMT
    I've also noticed here that many of the democrats only belive freedom of speech belongs to them, and they can't justify their brand of hate, and feel it's diffrent to the ones they hate.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:32 PM GMT
    aunty_jack saidI've also noticed here that many of the democrats only belive freedom of speech belongs to them, and they can't justify their brand of hate, and feel it's diffrent to the ones they hate.


    Yes you are so totally right! and that is such a totally like unbiased statement.

    And I am like so totally mocking you.

    No hatred here though... except for your disgusting generalizations.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:39 PM GMT
    I am just trying to explore a way to prevent freedom of religion from being used to persecute people outside the religion. Not allowing FoR from being used to allow hate speech that otherwise people would react against.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:48 PM GMT
    If you want to take it a step further, then should you bar objectionable speech towards people who are religious as well? Some of the opinions expressed in these forums might drive people who are religious to feel unaccepted and depressed.

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    Oct 02, 2010 10:51 PM GMT
    boydroid saidIf you want to take it a step further, then should you bar objectionable speech towards people who are religious as well? Some of the opinions expressed in these forums might drive people who are religious to feel unaccepted and depressed.

    I've never heard of any religious people committing suicide because of other people's publicly stated negative views on religion.
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    Oct 02, 2010 10:55 PM GMT
    The history of religious organizations is to be violent and oppresive..so why would today be any different.

    And their actions could not be further from the teachings and example of Jesus. But then again, Jesus hung out with 12 guys...and was never know to been with a woman.

    I'm just sayin'.....
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:04 PM GMT
    conscienti1984 said
    aunty_jack saidI've also noticed here that many of the democrats only belive freedom of speech belongs to them, and they can't justify their brand of hate, and feel it's diffrent to the ones they hate.


    Yes you are so totally right! and that is such a totally like unbiased statement.

    And I am like so totally mocking you.

    No hatred here though... except for your disgusting generalizations.

    Ignore aunty_jack. Its purpose is to disrupt this gay site with anti-gay right wing propaganda & hate. We will get more of them here as the US election approaches. And he's not even a US resident, preaching to us about our politics. Reminds me of Pattison, yes? Except this one spells a bit better.
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:10 PM GMT
    Oh well, so much for a constitutional discussion.
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:15 PM GMT
    Freedom of religion just simply means freedom to pick which line of faith you will follow.
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:16 PM GMT
    Hijackers aside...

    Actually Time had a good article on the upcoming SCOTUS trial on Albert Snyder vs. Westboro on the limits of free speech. I would have never imagined the route that he took to his son's funeral would be of concern, but apparently it matters a big deal whether he would win or not.
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:27 PM GMT
    Caslon15000 saidYou cant yell "Fire" in a crowded theater and claim freedom of speech. Should you be able to say loathsome things about a class of people and claim freedom of religion?

    In light of the recent spate of gay teen suicides, I am wondering if a limit on freedom of religion couldnt be drawn when it is used to protect hate speech against a class of people.

    Freedom of Religion should be Freedom of Hate Speech.



    Yea, the constitution guarantees your right to say horrible, hateful, hurtful things.

    As for the recent events, I think the real battle here is for heart and minds of the majority of Americans, not a legal approach.

    EDIT:

    But I understand the feeling of frustration that lies behind your posting. Seems like some get to have it both ways doesn't it?
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:40 PM GMT
    Personally the big issue is when people start to generalize. When you clump EVERYONE into a box or compare EVERYONE that has a similar life style to the people you're basing your experience on.. It's wrong.

    Not every Athiest is a hater.

    Not ever religious person is going to hate gay people.

    Not ever republican is bad

    Not ever democrat is either.

    Not every muslim is a terrorist

    Not ever American is afraid of people that are different.


    When you say "all the athiests on here have or show hate" You're generalizing and people that have done you no wrong will feel offended and in turn will get upset and try to start shit with you. Maybe even generalize about you and people that come from the same backround as you (IE being a mormon)..

    When you clump all democrats together and say that all they do is spew hate all day long.. Others that have said nothing and that have been silent will in turn start to get uppity and start shit with you based on your generalization.

    Not everyone feels the same as what i've stated, however many do. It just seems to me that man would like to put down others just so that they themselves can seem important. You don't realize that your words and actions create issues and start issues that will in turn make others do the same thing. It will continue to get worse.. And that's what's happening in this country. All day long many will try and resort to name calling just because either one of them are republican, democrat, muslim, white, black, asian, arab.. Etc.

    Don't you guys get tired of it all?
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 02, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said



    If these religions can get away with politicking at the pulpit and not pay taxes, then why not let each of us declare our households as a church and not pay taxes. icon_idea.gif
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:50 PM GMT
    I don't think we can limit speech in any way at all without causing essentially unresolvable problems. The best antidote to dreadful hate speech is other people's right to speak back.

    Believe me, I am horrified by the things people say, and I wish that more people would think before exercising their right to free speech.
  • xebec75

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    Oct 02, 2010 11:54 PM GMT
    All I want is some freedom from religion! icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 02, 2010 11:57 PM GMT
    Good luck if you live in Wisconsin: icon_twisted.gif
    http://ronjohnsonforsenate.com/home/issues/preserving-wisconsin-values/Ron is pro-life, pro-family, and believes that freedom of religion doesn’t mean freedom from religion. Ron will take these principles with him to Washington and will stand up to those who would attack these cherished traditional values.