Dan Savage: "F*ck your Feelings"

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    Oct 02, 2010 8:44 PM GMT
    Dan Savage is my hero
    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2010/10/01/sl-letter-of-the-day-sorry-nothing-fun

    E-mail sent to SavageI was listening to the radio yesterday morning and I heard your interview with Beth McDonald. I have been thinking about it a lot since then and I feel compelled to share my thoughts with you. I was saddened and frustrated with your comments regarding people of faith and their perpetuation of bulling. As someone who loves the Lord and does not support gay marriage I can honestly say I was heartbroken to hear about the young man that took his own life after being humiliated by people who should have known better. I think you need to be aware of your own prejuduces and how they might play into your thinking. At best I think your comments were hypocritical.

    If your message is that we should not judge people based on their sexual preferance, how do you justify judging entire groups of people for any other reason (including their faith)? There is no part of me that took any pleasure in what happened to that young man and I know for a fact that is true of many other people who disagree with your viewpoint. Please be aware that your words are powerful and people are listening to you.

    To that end, to imply that I would somehow encourage my children to mock, hurt, or intimidate another person for any reason is completely unfounded and offensive. Being a follower of Christ is, above all things, a recognition that we are imperfect, fallible and in desperate need of a savior. We cannot believe that we are better or more worthy than other people. I have never in my life know someone who loved the Lord who wished ill will on other people and certainly not death "so that [we] can perpetuate [our own] agenda."

    Please consider your viewpoint and please be more careful with your words in the future.

    L. R.


    Dan SavageI'm sorry your feelings were hurt by my comments.

    No, wait. I'm not. Gay kids are dying. So let's try to keep things in perspective: fuck your feelings.

    A question: do you support atheist marriage? Interfaith marriage? Divorce and remarriage? All legal, of course, and there's no Christian movement to deny marriage rights to atheists or people marrying outside their respective faiths or to people divorcing and remarrying. Why the hell not?

    billyjustinashercody.jpg
    Being told that they're sinful and that their love offends God, and being told that their relationships are unworthy of the civil right that is marriage (not the religious rite that some people use to solemnize their civil marriages), can eat away at the souls of gay kids. It makes them feel like they're not valued, that their lives are not worth living. And if one of your children is unlucky enough to be gay, the anti-gay bigotry you espouse makes them doubt that their parents truly love them—to say nothing of the gentle "savior" they've heard so much about, a gentle and loving father who will condemn them to hell for the sin of falling in love with the wrong person.

    The children of people who see gay people as sinful or damaged or disordered and unworthy of full civil equality—even if those people strive to express their bigotry in the politest possible way (at least when they happen to be addressing a gay person)—learn to see gay people as sinful, damaged, disordered, and unworthy. And while there may not be any gay adults or couples where you live, or at your church, or at your workplace, I promise you that there are gay and lesbian children in your schools. You may only attack gays and lesbians at the ballot box, nice and impersonally, but your children have the option of attacking actual real gays and lesbians, in person, in real time.

    Real gay and lesbian children. Not political abstractions, not "sinners." Real gay and lesbian children.

    The dehumanizing bigotries that fall from lips of "faithful Christians," and the lies that spew forth from the pulpit of the churches "faithful Christians" drag their kids to on Sundays, give your straight children a license to verbally abuse, humiliate and condemn the gay children they encounter at school. And many of your straight children—having listened to mom and dad talk about how gay marriage is a threat to the family and how gay sex makes their magic sky friend Jesus cry himself to sleep—feel justified in physically attacking the gay and lesbian children they encounter in their schools. You don't have to explicitly "encourage [your] children to mock, hurt, or intimidate" gay kids. Your encouragement—along with your hatred and fear—is implicit. It's here, it's clear, and we can see the fruits of it.

    Oh, and those same dehumanizing bigotries that fill your straight children with hate? They fill your gay children with suicidal despair. And you have the nerve to ask me to be more careful with my words.

    Did that hurt to hear? Good. But hearing it couldn't have hurt nearly as much as what the boys in the photo above had to listen to—day-in, day-out, for years—at schools filled with bigoted little monsters created not in the image of a loving God, but in the images of the hateful and false "followers of Christ" they call "mom and dad."

    And now a song...

    P.S.: The religious right points to the suicide rate among gay teenagers—which the religious right works so hard to drive up (see above)—as evidence that the gay lifestyle is destructive. It's like intentionally running someone down with your car and then claiming that it isn't safe to walk the streets.

    Which is why I argued that every gay teen suicide is a victory for the religious right. Because, you see, your side does use those suicides to "perpetuate [your] agenda." Tony Perkins and all those other oddly effete defenders of "Chrisitian values" and "traditional marriage" will point to this recent spate of gay teen suicides to argue against gay marriage, anti-bullying programs, against allowing gay people to serve in the military—basically, they'll gleefully use these tragedies to justify what they like to call the "Christian, pro-family agenda."

    But right now Tony Perkins is being strangely silent. Why is that? Could it be that even Tony Perkins has a conscience? Nah, couldn't be that. He must be away on vacation.
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    Oct 02, 2010 8:53 PM GMT
    Reminds me of Conservapedia's injunction against bullying:
    http://www.conservapedia.com/BullyingTolerance of those who are different.

    But only for those who're "different" in that they think that being gay is a sin.
    Oh, and don't forget:
    http://www.conservapedia.com/BullyingReturn of classroom prayer and teaching of proper morals and why bullying is inherently evil and wrong.
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    Oct 03, 2010 1:15 AM GMT
    Very good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.
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    Oct 03, 2010 1:27 AM GMT
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.
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    Oct 03, 2010 1:29 AM GMT
    Personally i'm happy that Dan Savage is on our side. More over, i'm happier that finally people are speaking out for kids in highschools t hat are too afraid to speak out for themselves..

    I have a friend who lives in austrailia and is doing a tour over there going around to highschools and teaching them how to cope with homophobia etc...

    His project is called "Beyond that's so gay" http://www.thatssogay.com.au/podcast/

    His name is Daniel Witthaus. I believe he said he was going to do a tour here next year. I'm hoping he does because this country needs more people like Dan Savage, Ellen and Daniel.. People that are willing to try and do something.

    His facebook page for his project if anyone is interested can be done via search for " Beyond 'That's So Gay': Challenging Homophobia "

    Creator should be Daniel Witthaus.
  • mynyun

    Posts: 1346

    Oct 03, 2010 1:31 AM GMT
    Well whatever the case it's still to the point with a point not just an empty "fuck you" and done with it. He backs it up with reasoning. Me.? I just say fuck you and let it go at that.. LoL.
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:19 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.

    No I mean just what I said. Why the need to deconstruct my words? And note I did not say "fuck you" is a polite expression, but that Savage can get away with saying it in polite company. There's a difference.
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:33 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.


    I think "fuck you" is the most polite thing you can say to someone, at least it's that way every time I visit New York.
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:33 AM GMT
    Sometimes all you can do is say fuck you
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:35 AM GMT
    JAKEBENSON saidI think "fuck you" is the most polite thing you can say to someone, at least it's that way every time I visit New York.
    I prefer the more politically correct version: "Go fuck yourself."
    It just sounds so much more fun, especially if toys are involved.
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:39 AM GMT
    Love Him!
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    Oct 03, 2010 3:45 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidSometimes all you can do is say fuck you


    EXACTLY. +10
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    Oct 03, 2010 5:20 AM GMT
    Global_Citizen said
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.

    No I mean just what I said. Why the need to deconstruct my words? And note I did not say "fuck you" is a polite expression, but that Savage can get away with saying it in polite company. There's a difference.



    Dan Savage could have delivered his message without using profane language.

    Dan Savage gets away with saying "fuck your feelings" when he's among people who worship at the throne of Dan Savage. I, along with many others, don't.
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    Oct 03, 2010 5:27 AM GMT
    Saying "Fuck You" in a polite way is an art and Dan Savage clearly has that gift. It's no different then calling someone an idiot or telling someone that you aren't particularly fond of them just in a polite and civil way. They know what you mean by your words (hopefully) and get what you are saying.

    Some people can do it while others can't. This is the joy, beauty and power of words.
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    Oct 03, 2010 5:38 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen said
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.

    No I mean just what I said. Why the need to deconstruct my words? And note I did not say "fuck you" is a polite expression, but that Savage can get away with saying it in polite company. There's a difference.



    Dan Savage could have delivered his message without using profane language.

    Dan Savage gets away with saying "fuck your feelings" when he's among people who worship at the throne of Dan Savage. I, along with many others, don't.


    Yeah... you might wanna get that stick out of your butt if a four letter word is going to elicit this much of a reaction out of you. Did you even read the article to understand the context? There's a time and a place for that kind of language. In his response to a completely insensitive and bigoted hate-monger, at least arguably, was one of them.
  • ShanksE

    Posts: 263

    Oct 03, 2010 6:03 AM GMT
    I do not agree with what Dan Savage had to say. He was being rude to a gentle person who had written in simply to state that we are guilty of hypocrisy ourselves if we make sweeping generalizations.

    Gay teen suicides are terrible and there is a lot that needs to be done. Dan is working very hard in educating youngsters and "It gets better" is a very nice forum I believe. However, in this context I feel he was completely off-tangent. To accuse all Christians/members of religious denominations of being "gay haters" is just as wrong as calling all gays "sinners". The person who wrote the letter realized that. Dan's anger in this case seems misdirected.

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    Oct 03, 2010 6:05 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.


    As a touche to your assertion about Dan's choice of words: there's also no polite way to say "your going to hell for your desires and affinities". Diplomatic...yes. Polite...hell, no. And it's about time we stop using all this political double speak, step up to the plate, and say what needs to be said.

    Apparently you missed the part where all these kids are either killing themselves or other kids--or both--out of self-loathing, or killing other kids because everyone else is saying that these "sinners" are an affront to the things everyone ought to believe in. He had the audacity to tell these self-absorbed dolts to pull their heads out of God's ass and see the forest for the trees of what they are really doing.

    Bravo, Dan. And may the rest of us get a backbone as well and stop acting like apologists for these poisoners while ignoring the elephant in the room at the expense of these kids. icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif

    We didn't start this, we didn't mean for this to happen, but we are NOT giving up until you pay. Fair is fair!!
    --Billie Jean Davy
  • curve

    Posts: 668

    Oct 03, 2010 6:41 AM GMT
    You folks are missing the point, it's not about how he said f&ck you.

    Kids are dying, it's been happening for years. What i dont understand is how ANY human being can stand by AND NOT want to help mitigate teen suicide!

    WTF??

    Dan Savage rocks and the "It Gets Better" campaign is brilliant!

    The religious right has done more to steer America wrong, including condoning innocent teenagers killing themselves.

    At least Savage is doing something about it. He's a living hero for the LGBT community and teen agers across America.
    [/i]


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    Oct 03, 2010 6:51 AM GMT
    I think he was kind of a jerk to that person actually. Taking out all his frustrations on a person who has absolutely nothing to do with gay kids killing themselves.
  • curve

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    Oct 03, 2010 7:05 AM GMT
    RuggedRanger15 saidI think he was kind of a jerk to that person actually. Taking out all his frustrations on a person who has absolutely nothing to do with gay kids killing themselves.


    I'm sorry, i couldn't disagree more, this is the problem with America today, we hear and see only what we want to hear and see.

    We are in crisis NOW and people are worried about THIER OWN feelings? Think about these poor kids who are riddled with bullying and unsupportive communities --

    WAKE up folks: what are you doing to help solve this problem? If you haven't already, take an evening out of your busy schedule and work on a suicide hot line--you will go home changed (i would hope). And then, we might be able to understand Dan's POV a little better.
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    Oct 03, 2010 7:29 AM GMT
    RuggedRanger15 saidI think he was kind of a jerk to that person actually. Taking out all his frustrations on a person who has absolutely nothing to do with gay kids killing themselves.


    That person was a condescending bitch. We need to stand up for ourselves and drop the PC bullshit. It's time we got rough with the fuckers roughing us up.
  • curve

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    Oct 03, 2010 7:35 AM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    RuggedRanger15 saidI think he was kind of a jerk to that person actually. Taking out all his frustrations on a person who has absolutely nothing to do with gay kids killing themselves.


    That person was a condescending bitch. We need to stand up for ourselves and drop the PC bullshit. It's time we got rough with the fuckers roughing us up.


    everyone is entitled to their own opinions -- i'd for one not fight violence with violence... do what works for you, buddy.
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    Oct 03, 2010 7:44 AM GMT
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen said
    BlkMuscleGent said
    Global_Citizen saidVery good rant by Dan. Sometimes you need diplomacy, and sometimes you need Dan Savage. The man has a way with words. One of the few people who can say "fuck you" in polite company and still persuade people of the poignancy of what he's saying.


    I think you meant to say that Dan Savage says "fuck you" rudely (there's nothing polite about "fuck you") and persuades SOME, not all, people.

    No I mean just what I said. Why the need to deconstruct my words? And note I did not say "fuck you" is a polite expression, but that Savage can get away with saying it in polite company. There's a difference.



    Dan Savage could have delivered his message without using profane language.

    Dan Savage gets away with saying "fuck your feelings" when he's among people who worship at the throne of Dan Savage. I, along with many others, don't.


    Fuck you. You seem more worried about "profanity" than about the demonization of gays which leads kids to kill themselves. And let´s be clear: in the USA this is a CHRISTIAN/MORMON issue. You don´t find many american Buddhists persecuting gays and enabling their victimization.
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    Oct 03, 2010 7:54 AM GMT
    curve said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    RuggedRanger15 saidI think he was kind of a jerk to that person actually. Taking out all his frustrations on a person who has absolutely nothing to do with gay kids killing themselves.


    That person was a condescending bitch. We need to stand up for ourselves and drop the PC bullshit. It's time we got rough with the fuckers roughing us up.


    everyone is entitled to their own opinions -- i'd for one not fight violence with violence... do what works for you, buddy.


    I wasn't referring to violence as I believe in solving problems without violence unless met with violence.

    I was referring to dropping the nice PC act and getting to the heart of these problems. Fuck these people and their archaic ideology.
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    Oct 03, 2010 8:00 AM GMT
    In otherwise, brutal honest and a reality check.