"Wrong to be gay"

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    Oct 06, 2010 12:30 AM GMT
    Hey guys-

    This is my first post - but was wondering to get your thoughts on something...

    I'm curious to know if you guys feel you still carry around the belief that it's wrong to be gay? If you don't at all, how have you went through the process of eliminating that....

    Or - does it still affect you at some level - maybe not consciously but unconsciously? Sometimes it's hard to admit - I've talked to very good looking, confident guys who still are somewhat affected by it - even if it doesn't seem like they are.

    I grew up in a very conservative smaller place, and was raised roman catholic- so the idea of gay = wrong was really strong and conditioned into me.

    Mostly I think I've dealt with it, but still feel there is some lingering of that mindset. I guess it's all part of coming out, and letting go of old (stupid) beliefs/ideas!

    Your thoughts please!
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    Oct 06, 2010 12:33 AM GMT
    The concepts of "wrong" and "right" imply a freedom to choose between two things. I don't think I need to go any further.
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    Oct 06, 2010 12:35 AM GMT
    sunalsorises saidHey guys-

    This is my first post - but was wondering to get your thoughts on something...

    I'm curious to know if you guys feel you still carry around the belief that it's wrong to be gay? If you don't at all, how have you went through the process of eliminating that....

    Or - does it still affect you at some level - maybe not consciously but unconsciously? Sometimes it's hard to admit - I've talked to very good looking, confident guys who still are somewhat affected by it - even if it doesn't seem like they are.

    I grew up in a very conservative smaller place, and was raised roman catholic- so the idea of gay = wrong was really strong and conditioned into me.

    Mostly I think I've dealt with it, but still feel there is some lingering of that mindset. I guess it's all part of coming out, and letting go of old (stupid) beliefs/ideas!

    Your thoughts please!

    How could anything that looks like you be wrong!!!!! ... icon_eek.gif
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    Oct 06, 2010 12:36 AM GMT
    well i see by your background you were molded in the crucible of the ever famous Give me a Child at 7 and I will Fuck Him Up For Life church by the freeway and burger bar.

    Of course you have feelings of guilt and self worth....Does a hitler youth hate Addy? of course not......give it time, process it, know that the good Lord, however you conceive him, made you in his image with love...not to ridicule and fuck with all your life. Once you come to terms with and accept yourself, in your time,,,,,you will be free and accepting of that lovely spirit that is you......Keithicon_cool.gif
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    Oct 06, 2010 1:18 AM GMT
    I'm a natural pianist...play by ear...piano teacher "fired" me at age 8 because I'd listen to her play and repeat it instead of reading the notes.

    I was raised in the Church of Christ, which believes any instrumental music during worship is a sin.

    I can't even use my natural talent to "serve the Lord." Then I later learned about the "gay is wrong" crap.

    Fuck that. I was done with organized religion before I was done with high school.
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    Oct 06, 2010 1:19 AM GMT
    Steps for Ridding Yourself of Internalized Homophobia.

    1. Give up on most brands of organized religion.
    1a. Seriously, keep your faith in whatever higher power/force gives you solace, but avoid practicing and/or adhering to any religion or other man made dogma that devalues you based on your sexuality.

    2. Realize you cannot please everyone, including and most likely your family.
    2a. You may at some point finding yourself making your own family. This is less common/necessary these days, as acceptance and understanding are on the rise, but still....

    3. Learn your worth.
    3a. Educate yourself.
    3b. Work with your strengths.
    3c. Accept yourself.
    3d. Abandon unhealthy fears.
    3e. Spread love, not hate.

    4. Realize your sexuality is but one part of you. An important, influential part, but still, just a part.

    5.

    These are my initial thoughts in response to the OP. I'll be back to add more. Others should freely cut and paste to add more.
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    Oct 06, 2010 1:23 AM GMT
    Never did feel it was wrong to be gay. I was brought up in a non-religious environment that did not espouse bigotry.
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    Oct 06, 2010 1:25 AM GMT
    paulflexes said

    I was done with organized religion before I was done with high school.
    Ditto.........
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    Oct 06, 2010 2:07 AM GMT
    To be honest sometimes, when I do reach a very low point in my life, I would question "God why did you make me gay".
    But as I have started to learn more about myself and gained more self confidence those occasions have become rarer and rarer.
  • Karnage

    Posts: 704

    Oct 06, 2010 2:29 AM GMT
    sunalsorises saidHey guys-

    This is my first post - but was wondering to get your thoughts on something...

    I'm curious to know if you guys feel you still carry around the belief that it's wrong to be gay? If you don't at all, how have you went through the process of eliminating that....

    Or - does it still affect you at some level - maybe not consciously but unconsciously? Sometimes it's hard to admit - I've talked to very good looking, confident guys who still are somewhat affected by it - even if it doesn't seem like they are.

    I grew up in a very conservative smaller place, and was raised roman catholic- so the idea of gay = wrong was really strong and conditioned into me.

    Mostly I think I've dealt with it, but still feel there is some lingering of that mindset. I guess it's all part of coming out, and letting go of old (stupid) beliefs/ideas!

    Your thoughts please!


    Hey sunalsorises,

    I was also raised Roman Catholic and had deal with a lot of these issues. First thing I want to say, is that I don't think you listen to those who say that you cannot be religious and gay at the same time. Though I am personally no longer religious, it is not because of the anti-gay doctrine in many churches.

    When I was coming out, the biggest thing I came to realize was that I did not have a choice in being gay, and that God created me. I could not possibly believe that God would create me to be something evil. Within the church there is a lot of quoting of scripture to support that 'a man shall not sleep with another man', etc etc. What no one ever seems to mention are the surrounding verses that describe how you cannot where linens or eat shellfish on certain days, otherwise you must be punished. It is the typical practice of selectively listening to parts of the Bible that I no longer believe to be relevant. If you're interested in some more reading on the topic, here are a couple good sites:

    http://clubs.calvin.edu/chimes/article.php?id=2205
    http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian

    In the end, it is one thing to mentally believe that being gay is ok, but it does take some time to be able to emotionally accept that as well. I think the more you get to know other gay men and the gay community and learn that they are good people, the easier that transition becomes. Best of luck!
  • jmanorlando

    Posts: 205

    Oct 06, 2010 3:25 AM GMT
    Can't be wrong when it feels so right. icon_smile.gif

    I am gay and it wasn't a choice so I don't see a wrong or right position on the argument.

    Is it wrong to be left handed when you are left handed? Nope.
    The people who see it as wrong need to realize this and learn it is not a choice.
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    Oct 06, 2010 3:53 AM GMT
    Many straight men and women have being asking themselves for centuries whether it was wrong for them to become parents? so I don't see why it be any different for a gay man or a lesbian woman from time to time to ask themselves if there is something wrong in being a homosexual!?

    My sweet man your self worth is realized when you find peace and acceptance of your humanness! keeping in mind that every human being whether straight, bisexual, homosexual, or trans-gender, they are all in essence an evolution of imperfection; having said that being who you are is what makes you whole!


    Leandro ♥
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    Oct 06, 2010 4:03 AM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor said

    Bang your own drum baby and get on with it....icon_cool.gif



    Ditto!

    Leandro ♥
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    Oct 06, 2010 4:04 AM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor said

    Bang your own drum baby and get on with it....icon_cool.gif


    who loves ya Tony.. <3
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    Oct 06, 2010 4:16 AM GMT
    Haha, I love all these great comments!

    It's interesting though because I've noticed a lot of the time when people say things like I was born this way, how could it be wrong - INTELLECTUALLY they believe it, but maybe not emotionally or deeper down.

    For most people I think, we've all picked up some negativity about being gay--or been exposed to it. Whether it's negative messages at school, from a teacher or preacher - or whatever.

    I'm not religious nor do I prescribe to religious beliefs, so I'm not wanting to start a debate on that. I'm just interested if you guys still feel it affects you if you grew up with negativity.

    I think we can sometimes take on that belief or energy of being gay is wrong even if we don't buy into it - just because of the general mass conscious belief...even if it's changing to something more positive now.

    I guess the question is, IF you were only aware that being gay was the only way to be - there was nothing else - how would your life be different?

    Different career/job?
    Less stress? less drama?
    Blah blah blah?

    Just curious,
    Matthew


  • handsoffire

    Posts: 178

    Oct 06, 2010 4:29 AM GMT
    My dad's a minister. I Knew it was a dog and pony sow by my teens.
  • OklahomaBreak...

    Posts: 167

    Oct 06, 2010 4:44 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidI'm a natural pianist...play by ear...piano teacher "fired" me at age 8 because I'd listen to her play and repeat it instead of reading the notes.

    I was raised in the Church of Christ, which believes any instrumental music during worship is a sin.

    I can't even use my natural talent to "serve the Lord." Then I later learned about the "gay is wrong" crap.

    Fuck that. I was done with organized religion before I was done with high school.


    I can relate, raised part-time fundamental Southern Baptist and the rest church of Christ. Sunalsorises I can't really differentiate my feeling of it being wrong from the religious overtones. Eventually I learned to accept myself and not let others, be it the church or society, make me feel "wrong."
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    Oct 06, 2010 5:03 AM GMT
    [Lord, I am not worthy to recieve you, but only say the Word and I shall be healed.]

    I was raised as a Roman Catholic. Although my parents were (are still) liberal and not very religious, I took religon very seriously (even though I didn't go to mass every week).

    I dealt with the guilt of homosexuality for nearly six years until I figured out that I couldn't change who I was.

    Then I did what every good Catholic homo does--I attempted suicide.

    While my downfall wasn't 100% the result of my sexuality, it was a very large component and easily relatable to the other components in some way or another.

    After being diagnosed with acute servere depression, I spent the next 7 years piecing my life back together: overcoming cutting (I have 60 scars on my arm), ECT (shock) therapy, 14 medication trials, 4 hospitalizations, and hundreds of hours of therapy. All because of guilt and fear of Hell--I was very fearful of Hell and did not want to be "evil." Those thoughts bothered me consistantly... which conflicted with my "teenage horniness" and fantasies of being fucked by a hot, sweaty, muscle dom sporting a sizable instrument.

    [pause] *sigh* *shakes head*

    Anyway!

    My guilt is gone now for one reason and one reason only: I read the Bible.

    After reading the Bible and its history, I became an atheist--The Jesus I grew up loving and praying to had an asshole of a father... who are supposedly the same in one... with the holy spirit.

    How would my life be different?
    - I wouldn't have these cutting scars
    - I wouldn't be taking strong medications (most likely)
    - I wouldn't have a psychiatric history
    - I'd probably have more friends
    - I'd probably have a relationship
    - I would be in medical/graduate school instead of being a 26 year old sophmore undergrad
    - And I wouldn't have racked up tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills.
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    Oct 06, 2010 5:06 AM GMT
    affected me growing up, choice of careers ??...It fucked me up for a lifetime up until a few months ago.....Most of my major personality problems and career problems go back to my struggles with my sexuality.....but when you say we have INTELLECTUALLY come to terms and not EMOTIONALLY, you must ride the horse before you judge its temperment......I have come to terms in both ways,,,,but the biggest release was accepting myself and thereby being able to love myself....AS A GAY MAN.....Keithicon_cool.gif
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    Oct 06, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    conscienti1984 said[Lord, I am not worthy to recieve you, but only say the Word and I shall be healed.]

    Those words haunted me for 9 years and still bring tears to my eyes when I attend Mass (as a kind gesture) with family. What a fool I was.
  • Hunter9

    Posts: 1039

    Oct 06, 2010 7:05 AM GMT
    thank god (pun intended) that religion was never pushed on me. what a (frequently) cruel institution it is.
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    Oct 06, 2010 7:16 AM GMT
    It was once indeed believed that left-handedness was the sign of wickedness or crookedness....

    "sinister" is Latin for "left"... "right" is the english for "correct"
    "straight" in latin is "rectus" as in "correctus" implyingin both english and Latin that gay = crooked, crooked being "incorrect"

    So its biased within the languages itself.... I cant even explain it in lanuage because I have to resort to words that include the bias

    So yeah, how to get rid of the belief system? remember that its human... and that "do onto others" is your main rule..

    And if a man wants to love you and wants you to love him, how on earth wil you be betraying the golden rule? You'll be violating the golden rule if you make yourselves both feel like crap by denying that love....

    That is all

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    Oct 06, 2010 7:19 AM GMT
    amar_m saidIt was once indeed believed that left-handedness was the sign of wickedness or crookedness....
    If you knew my brother, you'd still believe that. icon_lol.gif
  • coastguy90814

    Posts: 661

    Oct 06, 2010 7:27 AM GMT
    sunalsorises saidHey guys-

    This is my first post - but was wondering to get your thoughts on something...

    I'm curious to know if you guys feel you still carry around the belief that it's wrong to be gay? If you don't at all, how have you went through the process of eliminating that....

    Or - does it still affect you at some level - maybe not consciously but unconsciously? Sometimes it's hard to admit - I've talked to very good looking, confident guys who still are somewhat affected by it - even if it doesn't seem like they are.

    I grew up in a very conservative smaller place, and was raised roman catholic- so the idea of gay = wrong was really strong and conditioned into me.

    Mostly I think I've dealt with it, but still feel there is some lingering of that mindset. I guess it's all part of coming out, and letting go of old (stupid) beliefs/ideas!

    Your thoughts please!


    These posts are a little alarming to me in light of a string of recent Gay teen suicides. We need more Gay men to feel secure with who they are and know being who they are is not wrong. I think the key here is ignorance. I'm not saying you're ignorant but you may lack a knowledge of religion, etc; which I assume may be part of your lingering feelings. Figure out exactly why you still have lingering feelings that being Gay is wrong and then do some research.
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    Oct 06, 2010 8:20 AM GMT
    I was born in a strict fundamentalist Christian home, was forced to attend Christian schooling for the entirety of my education and made to go to church every sunday til I was 15. All I can say now is one thing; nice try Mum and Dad. By age 14 I knew the whole organised religion thing was a joke. When I would question my parents why they'd "tithe" $200 a week to our church, they said, "because darling, everything we own belongs to Jesus. We have to give at least some back to him". My parents ate up every word they'd hear in church. I was constantly bombarded with how evil our world is and how the 'deviants and homosexuals' were the main cause. At school I was taught that if we encountered gay people, we should either "cure" them or avoid them like the plague, depending on our "relationship with God".
    I'm sure there are quite a few of you who have experienced what I've experienced and yes, I do harbour remnants of homophobia deep down inside. It was so hard to accept myself for who I was when I was in that environment, but I've come so far now.
    Religion divides, spirituality unites.