"there's a possible nightmare scenario here that no foreclosure is valid,"

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    Oct 07, 2010 3:07 AM GMT
    oh lordy, read this....

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100607227.html?hpid=topnews
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    Oct 07, 2010 4:09 AM GMT
    Oh yeah. This is a complete cluster-fuck. Thank you Gods of finance.

    You have to read "The Big Short" by Michael Lewis. It's a stunning account of how derivatives and pseudo-derivatives, etc, brought down the economy.
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    Oct 07, 2010 5:36 AM GMT
    Wouldn't Title Insurance cover your ass if later you found out your purchase wasn't as "legal" as it should have been?
  • Westlife1

    Posts: 25

    Oct 07, 2010 8:44 AM GMT
    Yes, normally if there is fault in the chain of title it falls on the title company. However, MERS was such a "large and differrent animal" I'm not sure how much "should " land on the title companies. MERS was completely acceptable in a chain of title until recently and as authority to initiate a foreclosure until a few years back. The people in our office went scrambling trying to amend documents once word came down that MERS, being a registration servicer, could not actually inititiate a foreclosure and all that really means is that the initial paperwork would need to be in the LENDER'S Name and not the Servicers. BUT each state has vastly different laws and procedures for handling these cases and a lot of bravada as well.
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    Oct 08, 2010 8:47 AM GMT
    MERS was an interesting animal. I am still wondering why none of the states who get fees from transfers never went after MERS for allowing companies to save (according to MERS itself) "almost one billion dollars." The problem that some judges seem to have with MERS filing the paperwork is that they are only a registration company and that it is very strange for a registration company to be able to file foreclosures. Also the lack of transparency and the fact that they have been unable on a number of occasions to produce the original ink signed copies they are supposed to keep on file.

    Another link for those interested.
    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=168419
    Basically, it says that Ohio is now filing a lawsuit against Ally (GMAC). With states being so strapped for cash I would be a little worried if I were busy foreclosing on houses without all of the proper paperwork. "This is big news. I just got off a conference call with Richard Cordray, the Attorney General for the state of Ohio. He has filed a lawsuit... The lawsuit alleges fraud on the part of GMAC, along with violations of the Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act, in filing false affidavits to mislead the courts in what they describe as “hundreds” of Ohio foreclosure cases. And, the Attorney General is treating every single false affidavit filed in an Ohio court as a separate violation, with a fine of up to $25,000, plus additional restitution for the homeowner of an unspecified amount."

    Easy to see why they have halted foreclosures in the 23 states where courts have jurisdiction over home seizures. Sad that they have not halted them in all states until they can figure this out. I suppose they see profit in the states with less protection for the home owners and possible fines and expenses in the other states.

    Finally, if anybody has read this far or still cares- score one for the little people. Obama sent a crappy bill back to congress concerning foreclosures. It is a "pro-Obama" piece that would be hard to place anywhere else on RJ, but is worth a read. http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=6897378888793
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    Oct 11, 2010 11:35 AM GMT
    This link doesn't really fit in here, but it is mortgage related, and default related, and I really don't feel like cluttering up the board with links that others may not find as amusing- so here is one of Jon Stewart (the Daily show) on defaults.
    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf4j3m_the-daily-show-mortgage-bankers-ass_news
    It works for Canadians as well (at least for now.)

    beneful1 saidWouldn't Title Insurance cover your ass if later you found out your purchase wasn't as "legal" as it should have been?

    Here is a recent link from the New York Times on this subject. I honestly think that they are being a little alarmist in terms of the likelihood of the events. It is a "worst case scenario" where they mentioned everything but the possibility of the insurance company going broke... Still, it does answer some of your questions.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/09/your-money/mortgages/09money.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 11, 2010 12:20 PM GMT
    "lenders had no right to foreclose, because they lacked clear title"

    as if this whole situation isn't bad enough for the poor defaulters, thinking a little wider, now there looms the threat that some (most?) of the assets that these institutions are intending to liquidate to create fluidity in their own cashflows, to stay afloat themselves, may be difficult, if not impossible, to liquidate because the institutions cannot prove they actually own them?

    spell double dip recession again for me people... ps. i'm single and looking for a husband (joking!) if anyone wants to move to Australia where we're actually facing further increases in interest rates and have a labour shortage...
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Oct 11, 2010 12:29 PM GMT
    west77 saidMERS was an interesting animal. I am still wondering why none of the states who get fees from transfers never went after MERS for allowing companies to save (according to MERS itself) "almost one billion dollars." The problem that some judges seem to have with MERS filing the paperwork is that they are only a registration company and that it is very strange for a registration company to be able to file foreclosures. Also the lack of transparency and the fact that they have been unable on a number of occasions to produce the original ink signed copies they are supposed to keep on file.

    Another link for those interested.
    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=168419
    Basically, it says that Ohio is now filing a lawsuit against Ally (GMAC). With states being so strapped for cash I would be a little worried if I were busy foreclosing on houses without all of the proper paperwork. "This is big news. I just got off a conference call with Richard Cordray, the Attorney General for the state of Ohio. He has filed a lawsuit... The lawsuit alleges fraud on the part of GMAC, along with violations of the Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act, in filing false affidavits to mislead the courts in what they describe as “hundreds” of Ohio foreclosure cases. And, the Attorney General is treating every single false affidavit filed in an Ohio court as a separate violation, with a fine of up to $25,000, plus additional restitution for the homeowner of an unspecified amount."

    Easy to see why they have halted foreclosures in the 23 states where courts have jurisdiction over home seizures. Sad that they have not halted them in all states until they can figure this out. I suppose they see profit in the states with less protection for the home owners and possible fines and expenses in the other states.

    Finally, if anybody has read this far or still cares- score one for the little people. Obama sent a crappy bill back to congress concerning foreclosures. It is a "pro-Obama" piece that would be hard to place anywhere else on RJ, but is worth a read. http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=6897378888793



    I think Ohio is the leader of 40 states now filing lawsuit on this.
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    Oct 11, 2010 12:47 PM GMT
    Yes, it is now 40 give or take (as individual AG's decide whether or not to pursue). The latest has Bloomberg stating that Tom Miller of Iowa is the one leading the charge, though I seem to have read about Ohio first.

    Either way I am not surprised. Ohio has up to $25 000 per offense and Iowa is a maximum of $40 000 per offense. With previous estimates being hundreds of charges per state that would amount to millions of dollars in revenue for each of those two states. Yes, with the budget shortfalls that individual states are facing right now I really am that jaded and cynical to believe that this move is more to prop up the states bank accounts than it is about justice.
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    Oct 16, 2010 8:12 PM GMT
    I thought that I might add a couple of new things that made me laugh regarding the problems the banks are now experiencing. 150 depositions were released showing that many of the employees did not have a clue what they were doing, had no formal training and many knew they were lying when they signed documents.

    "In one deposition taken in Houston, a foreclosure supervisor with Litton Loan couldn't define basic terms like promissory note, mortgagee, lien, receiver, jurisdiction, circuit court, plaintiff's assignor or defendant. She testified that she didn't know why a spouse might claim interest in a property, what the required conditions were for a bank to foreclose or who the holder of the mortgage note was. "I don't know the ins and outs of the loan, I just sign documents," she said at one point.

    Possibly my favourite: "a former senior paralegal in Stern's firm described a boiler-room atmosphere in which employees were pressured to forge signatures, backdate documents, swap Social Security numbers, inflate billings and pass around notary stamps as if they were salt."

    So, hire people who will not question authority to sign affidavits without reviewing them and if you still can not foreclose then hire a lawyer who is wiling to forge signatures and backdate the paperwork... nice.
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    Oct 16, 2010 8:18 PM GMT
    Wait a minute. I thought Barney Frank encouraging high-risk, low-income minorities to buy a house on an ARM was what caused the real estate and credit crisis. Huh. I guess you can't believe everything you hear on Fox.
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    Oct 16, 2010 8:25 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidWait a minute. I thought Barney Frank encouraging high-risk, low-income minorities to buy a house on an ARM was what caused the real estate and credit crisis. Huh. I guess you can't believe everything you hear on Fox.


    LOL. It's criminal fraud from convincing poor people to take a mortgage they couldn't' afford to securitizing the risk without documentation. Lock the bastards up.