Gays going to Hell report for class

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 5:29 AM GMT
    Ok I need your help guys. I'm writing about how gays are going to hell. Anyone know how this came about? Any help is greatly appreciated.
  • helium

    Posts: 378

    Mar 05, 2008 5:38 AM GMT
    One thing that you might need to look at is the Bible. It tends to have some passages in there about how the gays are sinners.
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    Mar 05, 2008 5:45 AM GMT
    Be careful not to mix up the act of homosexuality with being gay. It is my understanding that references in the Bible also have more to do with homosexual acts as a way of worshiping or please gods than love between two individuals. It's interpretation, by those who read it literally word for word without reference to the era and social/religious concerns of the time, as the year went on that condone those who were homosexuals to condemnation.
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Mar 05, 2008 7:04 AM GMT
    The bible verse I've seen most often in this argument is Leviticus 18:22. King James version (not the best translation in terms of retaining meaning from the originals, but one of the more commonly cited and formal sounding of them:

    Leviticus 18:21 "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD."

    18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

    18:23 "Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."

    Therefore, according to this passage, homosexuality is an abomination, while bestiality is merely confusion. Touching, isn't it, that livestock are accorded effectively higher status than the gays?

    As for specifically going to Hell, here one of the more common passages is from Corinthians. From the New International Bible:

    Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

    The New American Standard version replaces male prostitutes with the effeminate. Apparently, sleeping with women for money is OK unless it's sexually immoral/fornication [which I think it would have to be], but being effeminate is bad regardless of whether that involves man-on-man action.

    Of course, virtually no one actually adheres to all of the various rules of the bible. We've got, say:

    Leviticus 19:19:

    "Keep my decrees.
    Do not mate different kinds of animals.
    Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
    Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material."

    So that cotton/poly blend you've got is a problem. So is mixed field agriculture, which drastically increases crop yield.

    Bottom line, there are biblical prohibitions against homosexuality. And mixed field agriculture. And working on the Sabbath. And slaves rebelling against their masters. And women disobeying their husbands. And eating shellfish. And blended fabrics. It's a huge collection of writings, the Old Testament of which is largely genealogical lists, reports of warfare, and long lists of things you're not supposed to do. It's easy to cherry pick passages to support pretty much whatever you want. If you're condemning people, you're probably citing Old Testament; if you're forgiving them, it's probably New Testament. There are far more exhortations in the Bible to aid widows and the poor than there are to abstain from gay sex, but there's a certain fringe who latch on to what they perceive as the sexual immorality of others, and use this for the basis of many of their other views.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 9:12 AM GMT
    http://woundedhart.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/im-going-to-hell-with-the-gays-yay/

    Just slightly related, but funny. Heh

    Anyway, I suggest googling of course. Lots of resources about it. Maybe you can visit Phelps' sites. Though I wouldn't since they get paid for hits reputedly. icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 12:09 PM GMT
    Well quite frankly, I think the title is weak.

    'Cos if it's going to be on a Biblical basis (alone), homosexuality is just another sin among many others which keeps us away from God.

    Given the basic conviction that the Bible is the ultimate Truth, simplifying it would mean we will all burn in hell if we do not accept Jesus Christ as God's Son and savior (through repentance = 180 degrees) , 'cos it's only through Him we can find our way to God.

    I'm expecting people will hate me now. LOL!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 1:32 PM GMT
    Anyone knows anything about Qur'an or any other holy books regarding homosexuality?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 2:50 PM GMT
    Uhhh yeah.. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 4:27 PM GMT
    I have never lost a minute of sleep worrying about such superstitious nonsense, you guys can stew about an afterlife, I will spend my time worrying about living a productive life on this earth in the 21st century.

    The Bible has a lot of interesting stories beautifully written, but that is about it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 5:13 PM GMT
    Thank you to everyone so far. And I'm going to see if I can find more than just biblical. It's a research paper and we need to make an argumentitive point eventually. Please keep the ball rolling, I need as much help as possible. The reason I picked the topic is 1 I go to a catholic college and 2 it's in "smalltown" PA.
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    Mar 05, 2008 10:06 PM GMT
    see "the invention of sodomy" by michael jordanos
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    Mar 05, 2008 10:31 PM GMT
    Most gay people will tell you that being gay is not a choice. If it isn't a choice, and you are told that being gay is a sin, then you must realise that the bible is simply a nice little story - if indeed the translation was correct in the first place.

    And what of the lost gospels? One person decided which gospels would go into the bible (centuries later) - so why should we only listen to one man?

    Where is the proof that there is a God anyway? Why are Greek myths/Norse Myths etc regarded as mythology, but other myths such as (in my opinion) Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism not?

    And why should we feel the need to shy away from saying what we truly feel about religion? We don't for anything else, so why is religion so sacred?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 10:38 PM GMT
    For your paper: The concept of hell likely evolved also from older greek mythology. Everyone who died went to the underworld as they called it. You could test the limits of your teachers by mentioning how the story called christianity copied greek myths of the underworld but morphed it into a place of punishment just for those who don't fall in line icon_wink.gif

    Look up Ancient egyptian myths concerning death as well. Christianity took pages from this period as well with the utter fascination on the body after death. Egyptians believed in the "ka" which in modern day christian schools you'd call the soul. Both religions were concerned about preparing the ka or soul for the afterlife.

    As for why gays go to hell well that probably came from the corrupt men who spread the fantasy in order to secure power for themselves and their church hierarchy. Being with another man is not normal and would interfere with having children and reproducing. In ancient societies children were important for work and to carry on the family. A gay child would obviously be an outcast and hated because it would threaten the continuation of the family name and not provide any children for labor. The so called religious leaders likely added in god wrath against homosexuals to try and stop the spread of gayness.
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    Mar 05, 2008 10:42 PM GMT
    Trance23 saidFor your paper: The concept of hell likely evolved also from older greek mythology. Everyone who died went to the underworld as they called it.


    There's definitely a lot of influence from Greek mythology, even though Hades was not, as is often misunderstood, a place exclusively for those being punished. Hades was the resting place for all souls, whether they were headed to Elysium or headed for punishment. It's likely that the concept of heaven also evolved from Elysium.
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    Mar 05, 2008 10:46 PM GMT
    Ya know I'd just say gay's are not going to hell because there is no such thing. I'd be getting an F for telling the truth icon_rolleyes.gif
  • drakutis

    Posts: 586

    Mar 05, 2008 10:56 PM GMT
    What a topic.......icon_confused.gif
  • Squarejaw

    Posts: 1035

    Mar 05, 2008 10:59 PM GMT
    It certainly wouldn't be enough merely to cite Biblical passages that call homosexuality sinful. You need to take it a step further and analyze why those passages are in the Bible in the first place -- i.e., what cultural forces led the authors of the Bible to regard homosexual acts as sinful.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Mar 05, 2008 11:18 PM GMT
    Check this website out to find information from different religions and sects on the subject of homosexuality. I've found it to be very objective and helpful.
    http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/faithcommunities.htm
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    Mar 05, 2008 11:22 PM GMT
    Squarejaw saidIt certainly wouldn't be enough merely to cite Biblical passages that call homosexuality sinful. You need to take it a step further and analyze why those passages are in the Bible in the first place -- i.e., what cultural forces led the authors of the Bible to regard homosexual acts as sinful.


    Well, all in all I believe religion is control. If those in-charge have no control over what their subjects are/were doing, there'd be chaos. They needed their subjects to breed and create offspring for future generations. The movie Junior wasn't around in ancient times and people didn't know a guy could conceive, so homosexuality was looked upon as wrong.

    As well as this, I think humanknd evolved from an idea of conforming to certain social conditions. Anyone who is different is looked at as scary and weird. Homosexuality was scary to people, and extremely weird.

    These are just a couple of my thoughts. By no means do I think they are the only reasons.
  • EricLA

    Posts: 3461

    Mar 05, 2008 11:26 PM GMT
    I suggest checking out "The Good Book" by Peter Gomes, an openly gay pastor of Harvard University's Memorial Church and a professor of theology. The book is about how Bible passages have been used to defend slavery, the subjugation of women, and the demonizing of gays. Here's the write-up on Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Good-Book-Reading-Bible-Heart/dp/0060088303

    Remember the Bible has been translated and interpreted from different languages. There are arguments that man shall not lie with mankind as with womankind has been mistranslated, that the original intent addressed prostitution, not a judgment on homosexuality per se.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 05, 2008 11:40 PM GMT
    EricLA saidI suggest checking out "The Good Book" by Peter Gomes, an openly gay pastor of Harvard University's Memorial Church and a professor of theology. The book is about how Bible passages have been used to defend slavery, the subjugation of women, and the demonizing of gays. Here's the write-up on Amazon:

    http://www.amazon.com/Good-Book-Reading-Bible-Heart/dp/0060088303

    Remember the Bible has been translated and interpreted from different languages. There are arguments that man shall not lie with mankind as with womankind has been mistranslated, that the original intent addressed prostitution, not a judgment on homosexuality per se.


    I don't understand how there can be a 'professor' of theology. Usually professor's would deal in fact - unless it's a creative/arts professor where everything would be subjective. In the case of theism - there is not ONE piece of solid evidence which links to a God. There are many subjective opinions on the matter, and whether people simply BELIEVE there is a God - but that would put theism under some sort of art professor, not an actual 'professor of theology'
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    Mar 06, 2008 12:27 AM GMT
    I ran across this quote the other day. I thought it was clever:

    "The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." Lynn Lavner


  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 06, 2008 12:36 AM GMT
    bwg77 saidI ran across this quote the other day. I thought it was clever:

    "The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision." Lynn Lavner




    Haha, very clever too bad the fundamentalists only concentrate on the six!
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    Mar 06, 2008 1:08 AM GMT
    Peter Damian's "Book of Gomorrah" condemned homosexuality as the most offensive of a variety of sexual transgressions. It's the most detailed treatment of the subject from the Middle Ages (he wrote it in the second half of the 11th century).

    Homosexual acts were always condemned (as an Art History prof of mine once said: the only place you could be "out" in the Middle Ages (i.e., in medieval iconography) was Hell). But same-sex affection was sometimes allegorized and spiritualized (it wasn't very common, but it did happen). Here's an example in which the mystic Rupert of Deutz (early 12th century) described a vision he had of Christ (it's from Bernard McGinn's book "The Growth of Mysticism"):

    "After a discussion of his reasons for putting off ordination, Rupert recounts a dream vision that came to him while he considered his unworthiness for the priesthood. He saw himself standing before the altar upon which there was placed a cross with Christ's image. Exchanging mutual gazes with the Savior, he desired to come closer to kiss and embrace the Lord. At Christ's invitation, he entered the altar that opened up to receive him. Rupert continues: 'As I impatiently entered, I took hold of him whom my soul loves. I held him, I embraced him, I kissed him for a long time. I felt how deeply he appreciated this sign of love when in the midst of the kiss he opened his mouth so that I could kiss him more deeply.' Upon awakening, Rupert interpreted the vision in terms of the clarity of understanding he had thereby attained of the 'depths of the mysteries', and therefore decided that he was ready to be ordained."

    Mystics used erotic language to metaphorically describe their experience of union with God---it was the only language they had available---but generally that language is heterosexual.

    I wonder whether Rupert dreamed of shopping with Jesus at Ikea the next night.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 06, 2008 1:43 AM GMT
    According to Southpark, Satan and Saddam Hussein are a gay couple in severe heat for each other. So, when in hell, do as the Hellians do...and share your toys safely.

    I don't know what your assignment is, but satire would be the best style for this.

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