Please help me with my "Revenge".

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    Jun 10, 2007 10:01 PM GMT
    Ok so here is the scoop. I work at a Casino in Reno, NV by the name of John Ascuaga's Nugget and I have a bit of a bone to pick with the ocmpany. Once day I came in with make-up on and was told to take it off. I went to HR about it and said it was sexist and discrimination, not to mention there wasn't anything in the employee handbook about men not being allowed to wear make-up on the clock. This place is a little screwy but I enjoy meeting the tourists so I'll stay with it and eventually have my cake and eat it too.

    My plan is simple. There is a bar in the casino called Trader Dick's, also a resturaunt, and it has a tiny little dance floor but its big enough for me and it has an pervaiding island theme with Karaoke on Thursday and a DJ until 2am on Friday and Saturday. Do you see where I'm taking this?

    So, I've been having fun there for about three weeks, stutting my stuff and gettin' down on the floor...shake that money honey act like you know. Anyway. New Gay Bar anyone? I'll also be posting this little shindig on Myspace.com and Gaywatch.com. All I'm asking from RealJock.com is for a bunch of you hot studs to coordinate with me a date to have a lot of Homosexuals show up, make out, and be you. I am coming here first because this is where I get my sexy strippers, mini chip and dales.

    Who's with me?
    Antonio
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    Jun 11, 2007 12:17 AM GMT
    What's with the make-up! Gosh, I could see if you owned the company but you don't.

    Get professional! You can be who you are but there is a time and place for everything and you are lucky that you did not get fired.

    If a guest does that, who cares, but not an employee. There are many companies that are just paving the way for equal opportunity. I know in Vegas there are lots of them.

    Don't stir the shit! If it bothers you that much find another job.
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    Jun 11, 2007 1:51 AM GMT
    Just like some places don't allow jewelry, it is their decision not to allow make-up on the job. Discrimination would be firing you--which they didn't do. Brush it off your shoulder because I guarantee your managers did. You'll be better off . .
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    Jun 11, 2007 2:08 AM GMT
    Sorry, to agree against you, but I don't think make up is the best choice of things to wear to work. there is a time and place for things, you wouldn't show up in your clubbing outfits would you. i work in a very diverse enviroment. I am the only gay man in my dept. but no one has any issue with me being gay and they certainly don't discriminate against me. i have a picture of me and my partner on my desk. and i put my self out there as gay as soon as i started, anyway, what i am getting at is, at work dont hide yourself by anymeans but be responsible, and dont muddy the waters with falling into a sterotypical indentity that unfortunatly is looked apon as negative. the more comfortable people are around you, the more reseptive they are to accept homosexuality and diverse cultures. becasue i dont throw it in thier faces, many of my coworkers now come up to me and ask me about gay culture, because they like me, and know i wont backlash at them and try and take them to HR. and this make more headway (on a small level but) for gays to get married and adopt and all that good stuff. making people uncomfotable will only knock the progress we have made down.
  • atxclimber

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    Jun 11, 2007 2:14 AM GMT
    Yeah, the fact is, only forms of discrimination protected by law are illegal. Employers discriminate based on all sorts of criteria all the time. At the most basic level, employers reject applicants all the time because they don't have the skills necessary to perform the job. That's discrimination. Obviously nobody sues the employer over that.

    I'm not saying that's your case -- yours is different, you want to wear makeup, they don't want you to -- but the similarity is, the law does not protect you here. They could fire you and "He insisted on wearing makeup" would be a legal, wholly defensible justification.

    I happen to work in an industry where they don't care if I show up to work with any manner of piercings and a pretty wide array of clothing (I show up in a bathing suit and running shirt, jeans and a t-shirt, button-down and slacks, it doesn't matter) but I have plenty of friends in jobs where if they didn't wear a suit to work every day they'd be fired.

    And they would have no legal recourse.

    Your pride may be wounded by what you perceive as a suppression of your individuality and your desire to be who you really are, but the right response is not to get "revenge," it's to come to terms with the fact that, guess what, you don't get to be who you really are at work, no matter who you are. As the most simple example, I smile and play nice with people that, were I really "being myself," I would refuse to talk to.

    And if I refused to talk to them, I'd be fired, and rightly so. :)
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    Jun 11, 2007 3:00 AM GMT
    Agree witht he above posts..

    Here is a list of points:

    1. Wearing make up does not define a person's sexual orientation. There are straight transvstites as well. Just because one chooses to wear make up or not, does not necessarily reflect your sexual orientation.

    2. SO AT WORK, like ATXClimber stated, you are treated equally as your straight counterparts. If your straight counterpart male employees also wear make up, and they were not told to stop, THEN you have a case of discrimination. I am sure your employer will not permit your straight male counterparts to wear make up...

    3. An employer hold the right to determine what is considered professional appearance according to the clientile it serves. If you work for a drag bar, your employer may actually encourage you to wear make up, straigth or not. If you work for an attorny's office, not only will your dress code but even hair or peircings are subject to the employer's standard. If you work for an airline, you have to even wear uniforms. Personal appearance is not entirely up to the employee, but rather up to the professional code the employer set up.

    4. Sexist, when it comes to legal matters of employment, is referred to unequal treatment when it comes to sex. If your employer does not allow men to wear make up, that is not sexist. Sexist is if your employer restricts your personal appearance as a male employee, but has no such practice towards your female co-workers. I am certain that your particular industry will tell a female employer if her appearance at work is not in accordance with the professional code set up by the company.

    So, your case is neither discrimniation or sexist. Your case is non-compliance with the professional dress code set up by your employer.

    Wearing make up to work, in your indurstry, is no different from you wearing a clown outfit to work. Or a female stripper refusing to take off her clothes, citing that her male co-workers get to keep their clothes on, then cite sexist and discrimniation.. You are paied to do your job with the most efficiency as your employer sees fit, given that they do not discrimniate, your time at work is their time and $. And in your case, they have not discrimniated against you...
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    Jun 11, 2007 3:06 AM GMT
    You've already complied with their policy, but I am curious: What kind of makeup do you wear to work in a casino? I mean, is this goth stuff? Drag stuff? Gender-fuck stuff? Ronald McDonald?

    Say more, please.
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    Jun 11, 2007 3:23 AM GMT
    What kind of make-up are you talking about here? Are you making some kind of Rocky Horror Picture Show statement with eyeliner and whatnot? Or just using make-up to correct a complexion issue? I had a boyfriend who wore foundation and powder, and it was not an issue at the professional office where he worked.
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    Jun 11, 2007 3:29 AM GMT
    Well, I can tell taht in your profile, there is at least one pic youare wearing make up...

    If I was a tourist form the mid-west and came into the casino where you work, and sees a young man looking like an earlier Anni Lennoox from Eurythmics days, I would be very distracted. I am from New York so I won't even blink an eye, but your employer sees these toursits as $$$ generating machines and a reputation of having Eurythmics look alikes as employers may not spread the desired reputation for thier business to generate $$$...
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:35 AM GMT
    hahaha. I love how the usual suspect all decend on someone when they say something stupid.
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:41 AM GMT
    Ok woah, I asked who was with me first of all. Secondly, the chics wear make up so I can as well and I will not stand down.

    The make up is pretty much the same as the picture in my profile, it was exactly the same the day the higher ups said something about it The day before, barely visible, it wasn't so obvious.

    The "revenge" part is because John Ascuaga is old fashioned so I would be being naughty. He's conservative my ass, he owns a casino and lets people waste their money on something idiotically frivolous, however, pampering yourself is totally noteworthy. I wonder if he ever feels guilty about how many people have comitted suicide because he supports their negative habit, on the other hand, I'll admit I would definately visit a gay casino. The rebuttal I got from HR is about other places of employment and the way this place just goes along with the crowd. It isn't popular culture... yada yada.

    I won't make it to where I have the place become a gay bar and then turn around and stab the guy in the back by wearing make up, getting fired for insubordination, then filing a law suit.

    I work in Valet and Bell Desk so there is a uniform I wear provided by the casino and it varies depending on the day. The Bell Desk uniforms are purple so I'm not complaining, its just if you're gonna do something and make a statement go all the way.

    Anyway, suggestions I've had on how to pull this off besides my own bright ideas are flyers so far. I say, rainbow coasters, of course the strippers, and any other suggestions I might include in the process.
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    Jun 11, 2007 10:39 AM GMT
    OBSCENCEWISH, I have tears in my eyes from laughing. Too funny!

    Make-up kid! - I don't think we are going to Reno to make out on your dance floor. I am sure you bosses have seen gay men clients before and perhaps does not bother him at all and it will not change his mind about you wearing make-up to work. You can't be that ugly that you have to cover up the manly face of yours.

    I suggest you look for other work if make-up is that important to you!




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    Jun 11, 2007 10:55 AM GMT
    There are times when I'm forced to defend a practice in which I would never engage. This is one of those times.

    Now, I'm no attorney, but I seem to remember some of this ground being covered when Disneyland prohibited same-sex dancing many years ago.

    We don't have enough information here, in my opinion. For example, if there's a female employee who came in with overdone makeup that was a distraction, or with oddly tinted hair, I suspect she'd be told to tone it down.

    If a man did the same, he could expect to get the same warning.

    But if a woman is allowed "normal" street makeup and a man is challenged for wearing any makeup at all, that IS discrimination based on sex.

    Suppose the man isn't wearing "makeup" in the usual sense, but a bronzer - or something to cover up acne. Should he be penalized for that, too?

    If the makeup that is allowable is spelled out in the employment terms for men & women, and the terms are accepted at the time of employment, then I could see groundwork for HR's stance.

    As for the thing about the gay bar - Ruby, you do understand that alcohol sales is a high-margin item. You pump up his business, and you'll only do him some good. If your interest is to address what you feel is discriminatory behavior, then you should talk to a civil rights attorney and get his opnion on it, and take action if he feels it has merit. Otherwise, wash your face and get back to work.

    J.
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    Jun 11, 2007 11:45 AM GMT
    Hummm... I doubt the make up the thread starter is wearing is the kind you suggested, for example, to cover up acne or skin flaws..

    Frome one of the pic in the profile, it looks like wearing make to look like Annie Lennox from the early Eurythmic days, which means, not the normal make up...

    I guess it is the only way to find out, do what you like and see if you get fired. Just make sure you understand legal actions takes a LOT of time and work... You would need a job after you have been fired. You wont go to court until years after...

    Just make sure you are REALLY fighting for a cause, instead of just seeking attention. Legal battles are relentless, stressful, tedioud, and harsh. It is not fun at all, eighet party. You are not in high school anymore, this is the real world...
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    Jun 11, 2007 12:47 PM GMT
    If I were running a business that catered to average, ordinary people, I would not want those employees who are the human interface with my customers to use my place of employment as a showcase for their societal boundary breaking. In this case, I can understand the casino not wanting male employees wearing make-up in a manner that makes a statement.
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    Jun 11, 2007 1:06 PM GMT
    Looking at the pics in your profile I don't see the make up. What kind of make up did you apply? I'm guessing it was pretty heavy to be seen in the casino by your boss. Your pics, to me, don't look like make up, maybe I'm make-up blind.

    I do think turning the little bar into a GAY bar to insult the casino is a slap in the face of us all. Why should being a GAY bar be used as insulting? We're working to support our people, not abuse them as leverage or revenge to defame.

    I'm rather ticked that turning any business GAY would be done for any other reason than to be a major improvement. I think your plan is to parade gays through the casino to the bar like despised monkeys to shock, irritate and irk. I'd rather see GAY used to support us all rather than be seen as unwanted invaders.
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    Jun 11, 2007 1:20 PM GMT
    This casino will never hire another fey man as long as it exists. Good job, ruby.
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    Jun 11, 2007 1:37 PM GMT
    Ruby I'm totally on your side on this one. The makeup that youre wearing in your pic is a little obvious but you didnt do anything extreme. Who says men dont have the right to hide blemishes by applying a little foundation. I dont think you did anything wrong, but I dont see why you would need it anyway, I think you look fine without it.
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    Jun 11, 2007 3:26 PM GMT
    "Women", and I quote, are alloted a light dose of make-up according to the handbook. I am a feminine guy so I like to be feminine.

    Nobody said anything about my bleach blonde hair. Only natural colors.

    I'm definately considering getting one of the themed suites at the nugget for my birthday on July, 17th and throwing a party. No rough housing, period. I have inner peace though and from some of the things I read it permeates into your environment and will help keep everyone docile so I'll be open minded and make it a BIG party.

    Pride here is coming up soo. I was thinking about having the scene come to Trader Dick's around then, but around my birthday would be awesome too.

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    Jun 11, 2007 4:23 PM GMT
    A little tangent here.

    I worked at another Casino before the nugget and was introduced to Maslow's Hierarchy of Human Needs in one of the customer service seminars. Why, I still have yet to meditate on and come up with the reasons. Perhaps to inform us that there is such a thing as street smarts.

    Anyway, he needs the gay scene at the casino. Self-actualization being at the top of the pyramid, it makes sense. Being gay is very emotionally uplifting because while I know its possible to have threesome with two dudes and a chic, she isn't gonna finger herself with the guys cum and get herself pregnant. It is not so "animal" to be gay as it is to be hetero. Men have sex with other men for the pleasure in loving another man and you have complete seperation from the world of behavior induced by a typical multicellular organism to reproduce and preserve the species.

    References - "The Biology of Belief; unleashing the power of consciousness, matter and miracles." As well as a myriad of other books I have read on my own time.
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:20 PM GMT
    You go, Rubybaby. Everything looks good on you.
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:32 PM GMT
    www.myspace.com/32125869

    www.myspace.com/Discovered101
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:42 PM GMT
    Why is it that, these days, when someone says you can't do something, it's automatically "discrimination"? Let's see...the business owner has taken all the risks to start/run the business, yet he/she shouldn't be allowed to dictate standards? I'm entirely sick and tired of this selfish "screw everyone else, it's my life and you just have to deal with it" attitude that I see more and more.

    Ruby, I have no issue with your wanting to wear makeup. But this entire idea of seeking "revenge" is just downright childish. If the Nugget doesn't want its male employees wearing makeup, that's fine by me. I respect any business's right to determine standards and practices. In my mind, discrimination is saying "I'm not hiring you because you're gay or black, etc." That's a BIG difference from saying "guys can't wear makeup." If you don't like the rules, that's cool. Find another job. Or respect the boundaries.
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:49 PM GMT
    There's nothing wrong with making changes, HighSierraHiker. When the atmosphere is a little more of a spectacle, I'll get my way and he will be better off so its a win win. The revenge isn't really revenge its just me being spoiled.
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    Jun 11, 2007 5:59 PM GMT
    Well, I'm glad you recognize it for what it is ;-)