MILITARY CAN NOW ACCEPT OPENLY GAY!!!

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    Oct 19, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/10/19/pentagon.gays.recruiting/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
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    Oct 19, 2010 8:58 PM GMT
    CNNGroups representing gays and lesbians have warned against coming out to the military because the policy is still being appealed in courts.
    I disagree. If 1000's of gay service members come out (and get enlisted), the cost of discharging and replacing them would far exceed the cost of reinstating DADT.
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    Oct 19, 2010 9:03 PM GMT
    It amazes me that the military itself is defying Obama's wishes to handle this in Congress. As Chief Commander, can he put a stop to it?
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    Oct 19, 2010 9:16 PM GMT
    The Pentagon has said they support the repeal
    of DADT but LGBT rights groups are concerned they will enforce the dying policy while the legal paperwork slogs it's way through the system???

    I agree with Paul, "olly olly oxen free"! It would be a disaster for the military if the Pentagon started going after gay and lesbian troops now, and I really don't think theyre that stupid.

    For all intents and purposes DADT is dead, right now it's just quibbling over who get to give the death blow and what weapon will be used. Everyone knows it's a historic thing that will make a nice feather in their political cap.
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    Oct 19, 2010 9:24 PM GMT
    Lol okay now I'm really confused. Obama is waiting for congress but the Pentagon and the Courts are doing the complete opposite.

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    Oct 19, 2010 9:27 PM GMT
    wrestlervic saidIt amazes me that the military itself is defying Obama's wishes to handle this in Congress. As Chief Commander, can he put a stop to it?


    It's not so much the military defying Obama as complying with an injunction from a Federal Judge. The military obviously has stated that they support the repeal (depending on which chief of staff you're talking to) but overall its become a liability. They also feel (at least the brass does) that there's work to be done to implement it. Stopping discharges is just one step.
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    Oct 19, 2010 9:30 PM GMT
    Posiden saidLol okay now I'm really confused. Obama is waiting for congress but the Pentagon and the Courts are doing the complete opposite.



    It's my understanding the military can't defy a judge just as much as they can't defy Obama. The Federal government is still the federal government, and on this issue, the military sees no reason to start now.

    Obama's line is that the law needs to be repealed via legislation, which is where his plan has run into big problems via inaction in the Senate. This court case, although welcome, has hurried the problem along leaving his team way behind and scrambling to do something before the elections next month. It's not clear that they will be able to do anything before this year is over.
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    Oct 19, 2010 9:40 PM GMT
    But none of this is permanent as of right now. Until this judge's ruling is countermanded the military is doing right. But anyone who joins the military as openly gay has to know that if this ruling is reversed, he is out on his ear.

    What I am hoping for is for there to be no stay and this to go on long enough to show that the ban is farcical. The military will function just fine.
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    Oct 20, 2010 12:10 AM GMT
    its_a_trap.jpg?w=288&h=374
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Oct 20, 2010 12:28 AM GMT
    The armed forces do not have to discharge someone for being gay, the anti-gay laws just give them the ability to do so.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Oct 20, 2010 12:46 AM GMT
    At least for now, but not necessarily permanently, that is, maybe, but sorta not exactly for sure, if ya wanna take the risk of getting bounced later, we think.
  • ajlclimber

    Posts: 337

    Oct 20, 2010 2:56 AM GMT
    As of this moment.. I have not seen any regulation changes. so I'm going to wait until I do to hit guys with some blunt comebacks. But it is coming.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:00 AM GMT
    Caslon16000 saidBut none of this is permanent as of right now. Until this judge's ruling is countermanded the military is doing right. But anyone who joins the military as openly gay has to know that if this ruling is reversed, he is out on his ear.

    What I am hoping for is for there to be no stay and this to go on long enough to show that the ban is farcical. The military will function just fine.
    Can you all see what kind of judicial disaster will come if a court reverses this stay and/or rules against the unconstitutionality?

    Oh lordy!
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:03 AM GMT
    DADT is out for now...

    There is always an appeals process so the fight is still on and definitely not over. From a lawyer's standpoint (and a veteran of the Air Force), I think it's never over until it has passed the appellate process.

    So let's fight on and let this unconstitutional issue be repealed once and for all.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:04 AM GMT
    the thing that gets me is the Air Force has weird rules about allowing people who separate come back into Active Duty. I know thats just a numbers thing. I can't speak on the other branches because all my friends who left the army or the marines had no problem coming back in. So what the hell are they going to do with cutbacks, over manned jobs, and a shrinking budget( Air Force ).
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:07 AM GMT
    Kevin324 saidthe thing that gets me is the Air Force has weird rules about allowing people who separate come back into Active Duty. I know thats just a numbers thing. I can't speak on the other branches because all my friends who left the army or the marines had no problem coming back in. So what the hell are they going to do with cutbacks, over manned jobs, and a shrinking budget( Air Force ).


    Only for certain jobs the Air Force will allow previous enlisted troops back in. The Air Force still in Force Management as it is over it's authorized manning. Until then, they still offer Blue to Green to those who want to continue to serve, just not as Airmen.

    **not a spokesperson** I just know people who are offering packages to people who've had minor blimps on their records.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:07 AM GMT
    Also on another note... just because DADT gets repealed doesn't mean that the LGBT servicemembers will get full benefits such as marriage considering that gay marriage is still not recognized in the federal jurisdiction.

    Just a food for thought for what's to come! icon_smile.gif
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:13 AM GMT
    I'm all for it but I don't think this is the way this should be handled. But on a positive note any progress is progress. I'm going to wait for AFI then a supplemented local OI before I bite. But when it does I'm gonna bronze that bitch and put I on my desk.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:19 AM GMT
    Kevin324 saidI'm all for it but I don't think this is the way this should be handled. But on a positive note any progress is progress. I'm going to wait for AFI then a supplemented local OI before I bite. But when it does I'm gonna bronze that bitch and put I on my desk.


    If your wise it's best to wait. Because we know how bitchy some people are, especially if they are jealous of you for any reason.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:22 AM GMT
    Ricovelas said
    Kevin324 saidI'm all for it but I don't think this is the way this should be handled. But on a positive note any progress is progress. I'm going to wait for AFI then a supplemented local OI before I bite. But when it does I'm gonna bronze that bitch and put I on my desk.


    If your wise it's best to wait, because we know how bitchy some people are, especially if they are jealous of you for any reason.


    yea man I hear ya. Military guys are cattier than high school cheerleaders. Like the job too much to get stabbed in the back...again lol
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:35 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidits_a_trap.jpg?w=288&h=374


    Very true I believe all the men and women who openly enlisted are probably going to be briefed by their recruiter to stay in the closet as they should. The reason myself and most gays in the military would rather have AFI’s (Air Force Instructions ie military direct orders… ie military law) is to ensure the protection of openly gay members. (other branches have their kinds of “AFI’s”)

    If not then who would we make our complains to? MEO? (military equal opportunity) the IG (inspector general)? the Commander? or even JAG, also factor in is the person you are making a complaint even the right chain of command or worse willing to help out at all due to personnel beliefs. Then you have the issue of “black balling” is your supervisor going to rate you lower (like a annual service report card) biased on ones sexuality?

    Will he or even she (yes some bitches in the military a bigots too) make life hell? Say punish a gay troop for being late once but his/her other troop has previous occasions of showing up late yet will receive no punishment biased of the fact his/her troop can breed, I say this because favoritism exists in the military amongst themselves to date.

    I cant stress how much I hate DADT but the military needs to set fourth a program and make laws protecting openly gay service members, or even outed member.If not some will wish they could get the boot due to the stress of being the "black sheep" in the shop. This will be more prevalent in maintenance or well "dumb dumb" jobs where the ignorance from the E-1 on the bottom to the O-7 at the very top can be over whelming for over a period of time.

    I know you civilians (aka Humans) think Obama is dragging his feet (may be true to a cretin point) for the most part this is false, shit it takes the Air Force years to approve anything from uniform changes to when we will ever use the F-22 in combat (on record used 2x). Therefor the top brass, congress, the president along with DOD officials need to set fourth the laws I was talking about to ensure proper integration because from what I have seen the military (due to its heavy religious right command and rule) is a little behind the times and needs to play catch up.

    So in conclusion I stress all gay members stay closeted until there is proper laws, regulations with proper chain of command to voice concern over misconduct, abuse of power and harassment violation (when they become violations)… But this is a step in the right direction, yet lets not trip over our feet.
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:42 AM GMT
    GetFitRick said
    TheIStrat saidits_a_trap.jpg?w=288&h=374


    Very true I believe all the men and women who openly enlisted are probably going to be briefed by their recruiter to stay in the closet as they should. The reason myself and most gays in the military would rather have AFI’s (Air Force Instructions ie military direct orders… ie military law) is to ensure the protection of openly gay members. (other branches have their kinds of “AFI’s”)

    If not then who would we make our complains to? MEO? (military equal opportunity) the IG (inspector general)? the Commander? or even JAG, also factor in is the person you are making a complaint even the right chain of command or worse willing to help out at all due to personnel beliefs. Then you have the issue of “black balling” is your supervisor going to rate you lower (like a annual service report card) biased on ones sexuality?

    Will he or even she (yes some bitches in the military a bigots too) make life hell? Say punish a gay troop for being late once but his/her other troop has previous occasions of showing up late yet will receive no punishment biased of the fact his/her troop can breed, I say this because favoritism exists in the military amongst themselves to date.

    I cant stress how much I hate DADT but the military needs to set fourth a program and make laws protecting openly gay service members, or even outed member.If not some will wish they could get the boot due to the stress of being the "black sheep" in the shop. This will be more prevalent in maintenance or well "dumb dumb" jobs where the ignorance from the E-1 on the bottom to the O-7 at the very top can be over whelming for over a period of time.

    I know you civilians (aka Humans) think Obama is dragging his feet (may be true to a cretin point) for the most part this is false, shit it takes the Air Force years to approve anything from uniform changes to when we will ever use the F-22 in combat (on record used 2x). Therefor the top brass, congress, the president along with DOD officials need to set fourth the laws I was talking about to ensure proper integration because from what I have seen the military (due to its heavy religious right command and rule) is a little behind the times and needs to play catch up.

    So in conclusion I stress all gay members stay closeted until there is proper laws, regulations with proper chain of command to voice concern over misconduct, abuse of power and harassment violation (when they become violations)… But this is a step in the right direction, yet lets not trip over our feet.


    Well said Sir!!!
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    Oct 20, 2010 3:47 AM GMT
    If Obama really plans to keep his promise and end the policy under his watch and if the ruling is appealed and Congress doesn't over turn the policy he will have to issue an executive order anyway. Which seems like an awful lot of hoop jumping just to reach the same conclusion.
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    Oct 20, 2010 4:10 AM GMT
    Posiden saidIf Obama really plans to keep his promise and end the policy under his watch and if the ruling is appealed and Congress doesn't over turn the policy he will have to issue an executive order anyway. Which seems like an awful lot of hoop jumping just to reach the same conclusion.

    Hey, shit for brains, an executive order isn't nearly the same as a congressional appeal or strike down by the courts. Try to keep up.
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    Oct 20, 2010 4:14 AM GMT
    Caslon16000 said
    Posiden saidIf Obama really plans to keep his promise and end the policy under his watch and if the ruling is appealed and Congress doesn't over turn the policy he will have to issue an executive order anyway. Which seems like an awful lot of hoop jumping just to reach the same conclusion.

    Hey, shit for brains, an executive order isn't nearly the same as a congressional appeal or strike down by the courts. Try to keep up.


    Lol my point was if its appealed and Congress doesn't over rule the policy Obama will have to use executive power in some fashion to get the ball rolling. If 2/3 of the three branches fail to overturn it, that leaves the ball in Obama's court.

    No need for the attitude old man, same team.