Obama requests emergency stay of 'don't ask, don't tell' order.

  • Sk8Tex

    Posts: 738

    Oct 20, 2010 6:08 PM GMT
    Surprise, surprise...

    From Washington (CNN) -- Finding itself in a strange legal position, the Obama administration filed an emergency request Wednesday with the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to stop the military from allowing openly gay troops from serving.

    In effect, the administration wants to continue barring gays from the military even though it ultimately favors repealing the policy known as "don't ask, don't tell."

    "They are in a very bizarre position, frankly of their own making," said CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

    In court documents filed in San Francisco, California, the administration argued that don't ask, don't tell should remain intact for now.

    The administration argued that changing it abruptly "risks causing significant immediate harm to the military and its efforts to be prepared to implement an orderly repeal of the statute."

    Toobin said the administration would like Congress to deal with the issue on a political level and doesn't want the courts to take it on unilaterally.

    The administration had already filed a motion Tuesday asking U.S. District Court Judge Virginia Phillips to stay her order last month that banned the enforcement of the policy.

    When Phillips denied the request, government lawyers took their case to the 9th Circuit.

    If the 9th Circuit overturns Phillips' ruling and Congress does not take any action, then don't ask, don't tell could be back.

    "And the Obama administration would be responsible for that," Toobin said.

    The Log Cabin Republicans, plaintiffs in the case that Phillips ruled on, said Wednesday that the group remained fully committed to defending this worldwide injunction because it is what is best for all service members.

    "It respects their fundamental constitutional rights to serve," said Christian Berle, deputy executive director of the group. "We'll continue to defend this ruling all the way to the United States Supreme Court if necessary."

    The group was expecting the 9th Circuit to consider the request for a stay in the next five days. By the time there is a court ruling, don't ask, don't tell would have been suspended for almost two weeks.

    The Pentagon has already begun advising recruiting commands that they can accept openly gay and lesbian recruit candidates, according to a Pentagon spokeswoman.

    The guidance from the personnel and readiness office was sent to recruiting commands Friday, according to spokeswoman Cynthia Smith.

    The recruiters were told that if a candidate admits he or she is openly gay, and qualify under normal recruiting guidelines, their application can be processed. Recruiters are not allowed to ask candidates if they are gay as part of the application process.

    Berle said so far, there have not been any incidents of consequence the administration feared would occur.

    "The armed forces continues to move along and succeed because it is the greatest military in the world," Berle said.

    Dan Choi, an infantry officer who was discharged under the don't ask, don't tell policy, turned in paperwork Wednesday to re-enlist in the Army. He said the Obama administration ought not to lift a finger to defend discrimination.

    "They should walk their talk," Choi told CNN after re-enlisting.

    The Obama administration has said it needs more time to work with the Pentagon to repeal the policy, blasted by critics as blatantly discriminatory.

    "This president has made a commitment, and it's not a question of whether that program, whether that policy will change, but when," Obama adviser David Axelrod told CNN. "We're at the end of a process with the Pentagon to make that transition, and we're going to see it through."
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 20, 2010 10:14 PM GMT
    I find it so strange that the one standing in the way of all this is, of all people, President Obama. What happened to "Change"? He could have just let this ride a few months while the whole idea sort of settled in, the Pentagon Review data was in, and perhaps this would have been a short-cut to the inevitable repealing of DADT. Instead, the biggest obstacle seems to be the President. I just don't get it.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14295

    Oct 20, 2010 10:19 PM GMT
    It appears that President Obama is afraid of a potential backlash from the religious right wing if he allows DADT to be repealed by a federal court order. He has been quite disappointing on this issue and requesting an emergency stay for DADT is just showing us that he is not willing to deliver all the promises he made in 2008 because of the fear that democrats will lose many seats in Congress and several state governorships.
  • CarbGoggles

    Posts: 705

    Oct 20, 2010 10:24 PM GMT
    Looks like I need to move up my coming out party date... LOL
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    Oct 20, 2010 10:27 PM GMT
    I don't get it either. I just saw someone explain on TC that the appeal was because you simply don't want to set a precedent of a lower court telling the government to stop something and if the President agrees you just let it go, because you don't want the next administration to get away with letting lower courts change policy. And more importantly, they want to make sure it gets to the Supreme Court, and then say "actually, we agree" so that it's settled at that level, and the next administration can't reinstate it without making another Supreme Court case.

    So okay for that, but shouldn't they actually WELCOME the order? I mean it's an excuse to stop hurting gay soldiers in the meantime, while they proceed with the rest. Shouldn't they at least be explaining to us the stupid legal reasons for what they're doing the look like a kick in the balls betrayal and hypocrisy?
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Oct 20, 2010 10:31 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI find it so strange that the one standing in the way of all this is, of all people, President Obama. What happened to "Change"? He could have just let this ride a few months while the whole idea sort of settled in, the Pentagon Review data was in, and perhaps this would have been a short-cut to the inevitable repealing of DADT. Instead, the biggest obstacle seems to be the President. I just don't get it.


    Obama said he is a fierce advocate for gay equality. How can you not see that?
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    Oct 20, 2010 10:42 PM GMT
    Obama can kiss my ass. Still, I'll be voting Democrat so at least *some* things can be accomplished in the next two years.
  • CarbGoggles

    Posts: 705

    Oct 20, 2010 11:01 PM GMT
    As a member of the AF I am concerned about a potential mass exodus of gays wanting to join just because it's open season. That would be detrimental to the military. We'd have to feed, train, house and overall care for these troops who only want to do it because it's faddish. Claiming to be gay won't get you out of the military for the time being. Trust me, people cry uncle all the time and it's such a waste of military time and gov resources. However, if 2000 gay recruits enlist to serve because they love America and are willing to die for this great country then here you can use my pen to sign your contract. How many days left till day 60?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 20, 2010 11:33 PM GMT
    He's upset because he wanted the credit for it, and now it will forever be remembered as the doing of gay republicans through the court system.
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    Oct 20, 2010 11:41 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidHe's upset because he wanted the credit for it, and now it will forever be remembered as the doing of gay republicans through the court system.

    His presidency will go down in history as one big fuck up...everything he has tried to do, he has fucked up. Let's hope he gets it better the next 2 years. But I doubt that, cuz he has squandered the control of Congress. WHAT A FUCKING JACKASS!
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Oct 20, 2010 11:45 PM GMT
    Lysander saidI don't get it either. I just saw someone explain on TC that the appeal was because you simply don't want to set a precedent of a lower court telling the government to stop something and if the President agrees you just let it go, because you don't want the next administration to get away with letting lower courts change policy. And more importantly, they want to make sure it gets to the Supreme Court, and then say "actually, we agree" so that it's settled at that level, and the next administration can't reinstate it without making another Supreme Court case.

    So okay for that, but shouldn't they actually WELCOME the order? I mean it's an excuse to stop hurting gay soldiers in the meantime, while they proceed with the rest. Shouldn't they at least be explaining to us the stupid legal reasons for what they're doing the look like a kick in the balls betrayal and hypocrisy?


    Lysander,

    I saw it explained that way as well. I don't know what TC is, but I saw it explained on the Rachel Maddow show. It is true, you don't want to set a precedent of lower courts halting the law of the land.

    Everyone keeps saying "Obama," like CuriousJockAZ and others did, but truthfully the Department of Justice is doing its job to uphold laws created by Congress (you know, the men and women WE voted for). Unlike the previous administration, we're not seeing the DOJ at as extension of the President, but as an independent agency. As much as I want Don't Ask Don't Tell repealed, I do want to see it addressed by Congress and/or The Supreme Court to prevent it from being revisited (or damn near impossible to).

    If it ends as a result of Judge Philips ruling: that's great. But I still want the safety net of Congress repealing it, or the Supreme Court ruling on it.

    I'm going to post the aforementioned Rachel Maddow clip if I can find it.
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    Oct 20, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Obama was the one who told the Pentagon to start taking us in!!
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Oct 20, 2010 11:48 PM GMT
    Here's the clip:

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 20, 2010 11:56 PM GMT
    Obama cannot take his victories a day at a time. He seems to want to make big, permanent changes, or not make them at all. In the end he will see nothing done, because patience is a rare commodity in this country.

    It's like me: I vow to never buy a computer until the latest and greatest thing comes out. In the end pragmatism wins: I choose one that's 1 year old and much cheaper.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 20, 2010 11:59 PM GMT
    I think patience is a virtue. I have a very close friend who works IN the White House, and who is at staff meetings WITH President Obama present on a daily basis. Its a very complicated thing. I grilled my friend on why Obama isnt just getting it over with. They are being met with a lot of resistance from within the military and they are trying to get it done in a good way...... I grilled my friend on this for a while and he gave me straight up answers.

    It will change. Give it time.
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    Oct 21, 2010 12:03 AM GMT
    What if there was a mass of people(say like 500,000) that come out now who are already enlisted and then DADT ends up becomeing the law again.. The military would lose alot good people that they need.!!! The Military would would not be able to afford such a loss like that.
    Mabey Obama has numbers we don't therefore allowed the military to start taking us in.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11819

    Oct 21, 2010 12:06 AM GMT
    Obama better do something.....he has neglected the liberals and independents that elected him......The only saving grace is that most of the tea baggers are nut jobs....Brahs.....go vote....We can still make difference....Trust me.... I'm jaded but I still believe our voices count and positive will always win over negative.....Steven....aka...BUD
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2010 12:11 AM GMT
    ZbmwM5 saidI think patience is a virtue. I have a very close friend who works IN the White House, and who is at staff meetings WITH President Obama present on a daily basis. Its a very complicated thing. I grilled my friend on why Obama isnt just getting it over with. They are being met with a lot of resistance from within the military and they are trying to get it done in a good way...... I grilled my friend on this for a while and he gave me straight up answers.

    It will change. Give it time.

    Oh yeah...we see all the resistence the military is putting up. icon_rolleyes.gif

    And I would not be surprised if the pres. is hearing resistence from the military brass. O' is such a pussy, he practically invites opposition just for the fun of rolling him.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 21, 2010 12:40 AM GMT
    mybud saidThe only saving grace is that most of the tea baggers are nut jobs



    And herein lies the huge miscalculation in the liberal mind-set. Labeling MOST tea baggers as "nut jobs" based on the far right fringes who, admittedly, are nuts is no more accurate than labeling MOST gays lewd and sex-crazed based on the small percentage of gays grinding in buttless chaps on a float in a gay pride parade. Tea baggers come from all walks of life, in all ages and colors, from both major political parties.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2010 12:50 AM GMT
    What folks fail to understand is the while the Commander-in-chief can overturn an order for the military, the policy can not be removed by his order. Congress, which has been stated uber-umpteen times, has to repeal the law from the books. And it is the justice department's duty to uphold the law. While the justice department COULD overlook the judge's order, they don't have to. It would open a door that should be open. If the balance in Congress (house and senate) shifts back, the repeal will not happen in Congress. Most of the military has been interview and most couldn't give a fat happy rat's who is gay or not. But it isn't really up to them. It is interesting what is going on and my hope for the repeal is still up, for now.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Oct 21, 2010 12:55 AM GMT
    ErikTaurean saidIf the balance in Congress (house and senate) shifts back, the repeal will not happen in Congress.



    I don't happen to agree with this assertion. Says who? Nobody knows how the House & Senate will really vote once the Pentagon data is in. If the data supports repealing it, I think people will be surprised at how many Republicans support the repeal. I may eat my words -- time will tell.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2010 12:56 AM GMT
    I think his appealing this to the courts is some information he has received from the Pentagon that there is a lot of dissension in the military over this and many don't want to sleep and shower in the same room with open gays and at the present moment they don't have the facilities to separate everyone into 4 groups, men, women, gays/lesbians, and the str8's. He perhaps his fearing a big walkout with this dissension and the reason he says it needs to wait, until the Pentagom can accomodate everyone's concerns about showering, undressing and sleeping in the same room with gays.

    I heard that surveys are being passed out regarding this to everyone and their familes and spouses to get input about their privacy feelings.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2010 12:57 AM GMT
    It could change by the courts... most of our big changes came from the courts not Congress.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Oct 21, 2010 1:28 AM GMT
    Don't Ask Don't Tell has been temporarily upheld

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/20/dont-ask-dont-tell-tempor_n_770737.html

    All this back and forth... I can't wait for this to be over.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 21, 2010 1:35 AM GMT
    The NYT: since the 9th Circuit granted Obama's requested stay DADT is back in force.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/21/us/21recruit.html?hp