Tammy Bruce: "My left-liberal experience was of intolerance if you dared challenge political correctness. The right is more accepting"

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    Oct 25, 2010 10:02 PM GMT
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/22/republicans-us-politics

    On being out, proud and conservative

    There's a little something I noticed in the reaction to my first article here at the Guardian – a question tucked in the midst of the hundreds of pithy and thoughtful reader contributions – I was asked: what is it like to be gay and conservative?

    After all, those conservatives hate the homos, don't they? It must be very, very difficult for me, one concerned reader noted, to be among the intolerant and hateful.

    Well, I do suppose I would rather bask in the unbridled sunlight of liberal values of fairness, tolerance and love so eloquently on display in many of the comments made on my first contribution here. I know, it seems like such an odd decision, to reject the Eden of the liberal establishment. Yet strangely, after having been on the left for so long myself, I began to wonder: how much love and understanding can one person take?

    Presumably, "batshit crazy"is an English liberal term of endearment, right? When I read another commenter's description of American conservative women politicians as "a bunch of petty, incoherent shrews", I was filled with joy at realising how great it was to be among authentic feminists once again.

    Having made my point, I trust, I'll now slip out of my snark suit and share a little secret with you. The real story of bigotry and intolerance is the fact that it lives and thrives on the left. As a gay woman who spent most of her adult life pushing the cart for liberal causes with liberal friends in a liberal city, I found that sexism, racism and homophobia are staples in the liberal world. The huge irony is liberals spend every ounce of energy promoting the notion that they are the banner carriers of individualism and personal freedom, yet the hammer comes down on anyone who dares not to conform to, or who dissents even in part from, the liberal agenda.

    Think about what would happen if you did act up? If you dared to say you like Sarah Palin, or admire Margaret Thatcher, or think global warming is a hoax, or think Bill Clinton is a sexual predator, or that George W Bush isn't to blame for everything, or that Barack Obama has absolutely no clue what he's doing, you know there would be a price to pay. Odds are that your "liberal" friends would very liberally hate you. At the very least, being shunned would be your new experience, condemning you to suffer that horrific liberal malady called social death.

    So, when it comes to my comfort level as a conservative who happens to be gay, here's what I know: while many conservatives are people of faith and their religion promotes a very different point of view than mine on homosexuality (and a few other things!), I have found conservatives to be more tolerant, more curious and more understanding of those who are different to them than I ever did when ensconced in US liberal leadership.

    Are there religious extremists on the right? Of course, but they are marginalised and rejected. As an example, this year at CPAC (the Conservative Political Action Conference), considered the premier, annual conservative gathering in America, a speaker stepped up to the podium and began verbally to attack gays and lesbians. He was summarily booed from the stage by a conservative audience that refused to allow such bigotry to continue.

    As you might have gathered, I prefer the honest, decent and genuinely accepting friends and family I have in the conservative world. We don't always agree on everything, but isn't that the point? – being able to be yourself, make choices that best suit you, without fear of punishment or retribution. My friendships and relationships in the conservative world are not predicated on political correctness and enforced conformity of thought. They are based, instead, on mutual respect, honesty and understanding – concepts many modern liberals should consider revisiting.

    • Editor's note: the reference above to the Conservative Political Action Conference was erroneously titled the Conservative Political Action Committee; the article was amended at 12:00 on 24 October 2010.
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:13 PM GMT
    That's just silly. I have several gay friends who are minimally fiscally conservative and one who voted for Bush twice and Giuliani twice. He has not been "shunned" by me or our other more liberal or lefty friends.

    I work with people who are all across the political spectrum and we don't shun each other. I have Jewish friends who are very Zionist and despite my change in views about Israel, we're still friends.

    Do we occasionally argue about politics? Sure. But we don't let that impact our personal friendship.
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:20 PM GMT
    Why do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:23 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.
  • GQjock

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    Oct 25, 2010 10:35 PM GMT
    Who cares what she believes

    .... "accepting" if that means believing any of the things that she listed as true?
    No ...............................

    Of course the right is more accepting
    She's espousing republican ideals

    and if she THINKS that the right will be "accepting"
    of her gayness ? When republican pigs fly icon_biggrin.gif
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:40 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.


    Erm...my statements were neutral on the tolerant/intolerant scale.

    Do you have an answer though?
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:49 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.


    Erm...my statements were neutral on the tolerant/intolerant scale.

    Do you have an answer though?


    Yeah, because telling/asking someone why they don't move to wherever you think their views or attributes will be more tolerated is the epitome of tolerance - oh, I'm sorry, "neutrality".
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:53 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.


    Erm...my statements were neutral on the tolerant/intolerant scale.

    Do you have an answer though?


    Yeah, because telling/asking someone why they don't move to wherever you think their views or attributes will be more tolerated is the epitome of tolerance - oh, I'm sorry, "neutrality".


    Major cities are often pretty liberal places. All I want to know is why her and other gay conservatives continue to live there if they think "real merka" is such a better place.

    If you hate it so much, leave.
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    Oct 25, 2010 10:55 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.


    Erm...my statements were neutral on the tolerant/intolerant scale.

    Do you have an answer though?


    Yeah, because telling/asking someone why they don't move to wherever you think their views or attributes will be more tolerated is the epitome of tolerance - oh, I'm sorry, "neutrality".


    Major cities are often pretty liberal places. All I want to know is why her and other gay conservatives continue to live there if they think "real merka" is such a better place.

    If you hate it so much, leave.


    The rationale used by tolerant people everywhere.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 25, 2010 10:56 PM GMT
    Explanation required ......

    why should liberals "embrace" someone with those ideals?

    What was this girl expecting when she said those things? That we'd call her sweetums and give her a hug?

    Me thinks Ms Tammy gots a screw loose somewhere and wants to complain because the sun also rises icon_confused.gif
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    Oct 25, 2010 11:03 PM GMT
    GQjock saidExplanation required ......

    why should liberals "embrace" someone with those ideals?

    What was this girl expecting when she said those things? That we'd call her sweetums and give her a hug?

    Me thinks Ms Tammy gots a screw loose somewhere and wants to complain because the sun also rises icon_confused.gif


    It's sad when tolerant people don't recognize the difference between acceptance, tolerance and outright hostility.
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    Oct 25, 2010 11:08 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    riddler78 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidWhy do conservative gays always live in major liberal cities and complain about liberal leaning gays?

    Why doesn't Tammy move to Alabama? How about some parts of PA? North Carolina? West Virginia?


    How um tolerant of you.


    Erm...my statements were neutral on the tolerant/intolerant scale.

    Do you have an answer though?


    Yeah, because telling/asking someone why they don't move to wherever you think their views or attributes will be more tolerated is the epitome of tolerance - oh, I'm sorry, "neutrality".


    Major cities are often pretty liberal places. All I want to know is why her and other gay conservatives continue to live there if they think "real merka" is such a better place.

    If you hate it so much, leave.


    The rationale used by tolerant people everywhere.


    Sad isn't it?

    And to think, all I am doing is parroting the words of conservatives during the Bush administration....hilarious!

    No really though, why doesn't she and every other gay conservative live with their conservative brethren?

    BECAUSE THEY WOULD GET THEIR FUCKING SKULLS BASHED IN BY THOSE RIGHT WING BIGOTS.


    That is all.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Oct 25, 2010 11:17 PM GMT
    Awww ..... a poor right wing girl got her feelings hurt because she didn't get marshmallows in her Teaparty cocoa

    The article made absolutely no sense
    Was she beaten senseless and left in an alleyway somewhere on the westend?
    Did someone sneak into her apartment and strangle her parakeet?

    More complaining for complaining's sake from someone who wants to be told it's ok to believe the world is flat ................. Psst it ain't
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    Oct 25, 2010 11:20 PM GMT
    Interesting article!
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    Oct 25, 2010 11:59 PM GMT
    A conservative living in a liberal area/community is like a liberal living in a conservative area/community. In both cases you're the minority.

    Republicans stand on the wrong side of gay history.
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    Oct 26, 2010 12:55 AM GMT
    Frankly, as my earlier post alluded, I think she might be knee-deep in BS. The idea that none of the gays like because she is a conservative is just bullshit. It's a cop-out.

    I was watching Nicole Wallace on Rachel Maddow the other night and thought, "now, that' a conservative" I could get on board with. There was a time when I liked Giuliani. In fact, I could name a number of conservatives that, even if we disagree, were honest brokers and truly "put country first."

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    Oct 26, 2010 1:08 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Think about what would happen if you did act up? If you dared to say you like Sarah Palin, or admire Margaret Thatcher, or think global warming is a hoax, or think Bill Clinton is a sexual predator, or that George W Bush isn't to blame for everything, or that Barack Obama has absolutely no clue what he's doing, you know there would be a price to pay. Odds are that your "liberal" friends would very liberally hate you. At the very least, being shunned would be your new experience, condemning you to suffer that horrific liberal malady called social death.



    Well, this is just silly. I'm pretty left-leaning, as has been clear from my posts here, but I've got friends who are Republicans. Some of those people are friends of other left-leaning friends of mine. Obviously, we don't shun them.

    For that matter, I do think that Bill Clinton was something of a sexual predator and I don't think that Dubya was or is to blame for everything (though I do think he was an awful, destructive president).

    A very good friend, who's generally pretty left-leaning, doesn't believe global warming is caused by man. He does believe it's happening, but he doesn't think it's that serious, he thinks it's part of the natural changes the planet undergoes. I think he's wrong but I don't shun him. Nor does anyone else I know.

    He's also a Mormon, active in the church and many people there know he's gay. I do find this odd (that he's comfortable staying in the church), but I don't shun him or mock him for this.

    It would be interesting to ask this woman some questions about the specifics of her experience. Methinks she exaggerates.
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    Oct 26, 2010 2:17 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    No really though, why doesn't she and every other gay conservative live with their conservative brethren?

    BECAUSE THEY WOULD GET THEIR FUCKING SKULLS BASHED IN BY THOSE RIGHT WING BIGOTS.


    That is all.


    You have deep, psychological issues that you need to deal with.


    Why? Because he suggests that conservative areas are more likely to have a history of gay-bashing? Ask Matthew Shepard. Oh, you can't. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Oct 26, 2010 2:45 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/22/republicans-us-politics

    On being out, proud and conservative

    There's a little something I noticed in the reaction to my first article here at the Guardian – a question tucked in the midst of the hundreds of pithy and thoughtful reader contributions – I was asked: what is it like to be gay and conservative?

    After all, those conservatives hate the homos, don't they? It must be very, very difficult for me, one concerned reader noted, to be among the intolerant and hateful.

    Well, I do suppose I would rather bask in the unbridled sunlight of liberal values of fairness, tolerance and love so eloquently on display in many of the comments made on my first contribution here. I know, it seems like such an odd decision, to reject the Eden of the liberal establishment. Yet strangely, after having been on the left for so long myself, I began to wonder: how much love and understanding can one person take?

    Presumably, "batshit crazy"is an English liberal term of endearment, right? When I read another commenter's description of American conservative women politicians as "a bunch of petty, incoherent shrews", I was filled with joy at realising how great it was to be among authentic feminists once again.

    Having made my point, I trust, I'll now slip out of my snark suit and share a little secret with you. The real story of bigotry and intolerance is the fact that it lives and thrives on the left. As a gay woman who spent most of her adult life pushing the cart for liberal causes with liberal friends in a liberal city, I found that sexism, racism and homophobia are staples in the liberal world. The huge irony is liberals spend every ounce of energy promoting the notion that they are the banner carriers of individualism and personal freedom, yet the hammer comes down on anyone who dares not to conform to, or who dissents even in part from, the liberal agenda.

    Think about what would happen if you did act up? If you dared to say you like Sarah Palin, or admire Margaret Thatcher, or think global warming is a hoax, or think Bill Clinton is a sexual predator, or that George W Bush isn't to blame for everything, or that Barack Obama has absolutely no clue what he's doing, you know there would be a price to pay. Odds are that your "liberal" friends would very liberally hate you. At the very least, being shunned would be your new experience, condemning you to suffer that horrific liberal malady called social death.

    So, when it comes to my comfort level as a conservative who happens to be gay, here's what I know: while many conservatives are people of faith and their religion promotes a very different point of view than mine on homosexuality (and a few other things!), I have found conservatives to be more tolerant, more curious and more understanding of those who are different to them than I ever did when ensconced in US liberal leadership.

    Are there religious extremists on the right? Of course, but they are marginalised and rejected. As an example, this year at CPAC (the Conservative Political Action Conference), considered the premier, annual conservative gathering in America, a speaker stepped up to the podium and began verbally to attack gays and lesbians. He was summarily booed from the stage by a conservative audience that refused to allow such bigotry to continue.

    As you might have gathered, I prefer the honest, decent and genuinely accepting friends and family I have in the conservative world. We don't always agree on everything, but isn't that the point? – being able to be yourself, make choices that best suit you, without fear of punishment or retribution. My friendships and relationships in the conservative world are not predicated on political correctness and enforced conformity of thought. They are based, instead, on mutual respect, honesty and understanding – concepts many modern liberals should consider revisiting.

    • Editor's note: the reference above to the Conservative Political Action Conference was erroneously titled the Conservative Political Action Committee; the article was amended at 12:00 on 24 October 2010.




    What a huge stinking pile of BS.

    The ONLY thing that matters is the actions of the conservatives when it comes time to VOTE in Congress.
    Do they vote FOR gay rights - or AGAINST gay rights.
    Whether they're "nice" to us in person is meaningless.

    And the FACTS show that every single Republican in the Senate voted AGAINST repealing DADT.
    Which KILLED the legislation, and prevented the bill to repeal DADT from going to the President's desk to be signed into law.

    Their ACTIONS tell the truth about whether or NOT they're on our side.
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    Oct 26, 2010 3:05 AM GMT
    rickrick91 saidWhat a huge stinking pile of BS.

    The ONLY thing that matters is the actions of the conservatives when it comes time to VOTE in Congress.
    Do they vote FOR gay rights - or AGAINST gay rights.
    Whether they're "nice" to us in person is meaningless.

    And the FACTS show that every single Republican in the Senate voted AGAINST repealing DADT.
    Which KILLED the legislation, and prevented the bill to repeal DADT from going to the President's desk to be signed into law.

    Their ACTIONS tell the truth about whether or NOT they're on our side.


    Yes, best to continue to support those like Obama who have been such reliable supporters of gay rights whose support he has shown he depends on and values.
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    Oct 26, 2010 3:23 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    rickrick91 saidWhat a huge stinking pile of BS.

    The ONLY thing that matters is the actions of the conservatives when it comes time to VOTE in Congress.
    Do they vote FOR gay rights - or AGAINST gay rights.
    Whether they're "nice" to us in person is meaningless.

    And the FACTS show that every single Republican in the Senate voted AGAINST repealing DADT.
    Which KILLED the legislation, and prevented the bill to repeal DADT from going to the President's desk to be signed into law.

    Their ACTIONS tell the truth about whether or NOT they're on our side.


    Yes, best to continue to support those like Obama who have been such reliable supporters of gay rights whose support he has shown he depends on and values.


    Obama has been quite consistent in his support of gay rights. In fact, he has kept several of his campaign promised to our community despite a constant wall of Republican obstructionism. I do think DADT will be repealed during his first term, either by an act of Congress or judicial fiat. The latter is more likely simply because the very Tea Baggers you support will fight against it. We've already seen how they're willing to sacrifice the troops they claim to support to prevent Obama from having a victory.