Secretagogue?

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    Mar 11, 2008 11:12 AM GMT
    Searched these forums and was surprised not to find a mention of this. My trainer who is 55 recommended it to me last night. I'm 53. From what I've gathered, its a stack of amino acids that stimulates the pituitary gland to produce its own human growth hormone.

    Have any of you guys used this? Does it work? Recommended brands? Best method to take it?

    Appreciate your first hand experience. Trying to muscle up and lean out.
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    Mar 11, 2008 11:55 AM GMT
    A secretagogue is a substance which causes another substance to be secreted. One example is gastrin,[1], which stimulates secretion of gastric acid by the stomach

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretagogue

    From just a quick search on google, all the HGH secretagogues seem like proprietary supplements that don't tell me exactly what's in them and so 1) I wouldnt be able to tell how effective they would be, 2) I would be afraid to take them not knowing what I was putting in my body.

    But the principle sounds right...now just to find a product that is proven.
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    Mar 11, 2008 3:51 PM GMT
    I tried one of those HGH amino acid stacks a few years ago, and all it did was make my sleep weird.
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    Mar 11, 2008 7:26 PM GMT
    There are way too many factors that influence the release of GH.Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) and Somatostatin(SST) are released by the hypothalamus, and that can determine how much GH is produced by the pituitary. Nutrition, exercise and various other factors also influence its release.

    I would have my doubts that over the counter amino acids stimulate the release of GH in levels enough to be anabolic. And how your endocrine system reacts to an over-the-counter supplement vs how your trainer's body reacts to it are going to be different.
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    Mar 11, 2008 7:52 PM GMT
    I thought it might mean a crazy secretary.

    One of mine ended up in Bellevue and another one is still in therapy.

    Secretary + Demagogue = Secretagogue

    Baci
    Terry
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    Mar 12, 2008 11:30 AM GMT
    Thanks for the input, guys. I'm doubtful about it too. I used "ZMA" for about a year as well. It was supposed to be a precursor to testosterone production. Not sure it did anything either.

    But I am figuring what the hell. I found Secretagogue Gold at Vitamin Shoppe for $44 so I am going to give it a try. GNC shows the label:

    http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2138472&cp=2108120&sr=1

    (Funny how GNC price is DOUBLE that of Vitamin Shoppe).

    I trust my trainer and he's built like a brick house. I'll let you know how it goes.
  • Hunkymonkey

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    Mar 12, 2008 3:04 PM GMT
    I remember seeing research several years back suggesting they do work, but only for about 6 to 8 weeks before a natural feedback loop kicks in between your hypothalamus and pituitary, causing them to stop working. If that's so, you could try cycling, maybe 8 weeks on, 8 weeks off. However, if you can find geniune gh, you'd be much better off (and much poorer).
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    Mar 13, 2008 11:49 AM GMT
    Thanks for the tip, Mass. I'd probably do the cycle also just to see if I feel different without it.

    Regarding takiing genuine GH, my trainer feels it works but it makes your body "lazy" reducing its own ability to produce GH.
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    Mar 13, 2008 11:53 AM GMT
    vtorso saidRegarding takiing genuine GH, my trainer feels it works but it makes your body "lazy" reducing its own ability to produce GH.


    Have you had your GH levels checked by a lab? I suspect you haven't. If you need GH, you NEED GH. Suppressing your levels isn't an issue if they're already in the dumpster.

    I suppose he's down on HRT, too, right?

    Hmmmmmm.....

  • Hunkymonkey

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    Mar 13, 2008 10:20 PM GMT
    vtorso saidThanks for the tip, Mass. I'd probably do the cycle also just to see if I feel different without it.

    Regarding takiing genuine GH, my trainer feels it works but it makes your body "lazy" reducing its own ability to produce GH.


    WTF? Your trainer is making a very general statement. If he can't tell you more than that, you should seriously consider not asking him for advice. There is more to it than just what he said. Taking GH improperly, such as every single day, will stop your body from producing GH. However, done correctly, say 4 iu's every 3rd day will NOT interfere with your natural GH production, but will merely supplement it.
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    Mar 14, 2008 11:27 AM GMT
    Mass and Joey,

    I guess I omitted that my trainer and I aren't really even discussing my taking actual GH. What he said about "lazy" was anecdotal and only suggested as a possibility while we were talking about the Secretagogue. Sorry if I misrepresented him. Perhaps he was referring to the "improper" way of taking it as Mass mentioned. Joe, we haven't talked about HRT.

    But no, I have not had my GH levels checked. I'm due for a physical soon and will ask for that. What numbers would be considered normal?
  • Hunkymonkey

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    Mar 14, 2008 9:14 PM GMT
    I won't answer for Joey, but at your (our) age, GH levels are usually pretty low. Supplemental GH ought to be helpful for skin quality, bone density, leaning out, and perhaps some other stuff. I haven't noticed my grey hair turning back to brown or my wrinkles going away. That's all internet marketing bullshit.
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    Mar 14, 2008 9:36 PM GMT
    Massimouno saidI remember seeing research several years back suggesting they do work, but only for about 6 to 8 weeks before a natural feedback loop kicks in between your hypothalamus and pituitary, causing them to stop working. If that's so, you could try cycling, maybe 8 weeks on, 8 weeks off. However, if you can find geniune gh, you'd be much better off (and much poorer).


    I'm not questioning you saw this research; but do you know or remember how legitimate it was? I have very low opinions of supplements that make these claims to be steroid-like or cause increased GH levels.

    As you said, if someone is really determined to use GH, the only way you'll get guaranteed results is with actual hGH. Sorry to burst your bubble, vtorso, but my experience has been nothing is like the real thing. And just because your trainer is built like a brick house, doesnt mean you should take him no questions asked. Some of the biggest guys in the gym are not the best trainers. The best trainer I ever had was a former SF Giants ballplayer...(nope, not Barry Bonds...LOL).

    Mass is right on another point...production of GH, like other hormones, decreases as you age. You would be well-advised to have your testsosterone and GH levels checked.
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    Mar 14, 2008 10:06 PM GMT
    Massimouno saidI remember seeing research several years back suggesting they do work, but only for about 6 to 8 weeks before a natural feedback loop kicks in between your hypothalamus and pituitary, causing them to stop working. If that's so, you could try cycling, maybe 8 weeks on, 8 weeks off. However, if you can find geniune gh, you'd be much better off (and much poorer).


    I'm not questioning you saw this research; but do you know or remember how legitimate it was? I have very low opinions of supplements that make these claims to be steroid-like or cause increased GH levels.

    As you said, if someone is really determined to use GH, the only way you'll get guaranteed results is with actual hGH. Sorry to burst your bubble, vtorso, but my experience has been nothing is like the real thing. And just because your trainer is built like a brick house, doesnt mean you should take him no questions asked. Some of the biggest guys in the gym are not the best trainers. The best trainer I ever had was a former SF Giants ballplayer...(nope, not Barry Bonds...LOL).

    Mass is right on another point...production of GH, like other hormones, decreases as you age. You would be well-advised to have your testsosterone and GH levels checked.
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    Mar 16, 2008 1:40 PM GMT
    Massimouno saidI won't answer for Joey, but at your (our) age, GH levels are usually pretty low. Supplemental GH ought to be helpful for skin quality, bone density, leaning out, and perhaps some other stuff. I haven't noticed my grey hair turning back to brown or my wrinkles going away. That's all internet marketing bullshit.


    Mass,
    I should just move to Greece and let you be my trainer, and do exactly what you do. Your chest is exactly what I am trying to achieve. So you supplement with actual GH?
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    Mar 16, 2008 1:44 PM GMT
    [quote]
    I'm not questioning you saw this research; but do you know or remember how legitimate it was? I have very low opinions of supplements that make these claims to be steroid-like or cause increased GH levels.

    As you said, if someone is really determined to use GH, the only way you'll get guaranteed results is with actual hGH. Sorry to burst your bubble, vtorso, but my experience has been nothing is like the real thing. And just because your trainer is built like a brick house, doesnt mean you should take him no questions asked. Some of the biggest guys in the gym are not the best trainers. The best trainer I ever had was a former SF Giants ballplayer...(nope, not Barry Bonds...LOL).

    Mass is right on another point...production of GH, like other hormones, decreases as you age. You would be well-advised to have your testsosterone and GH levels checked.[/quote]

    Latin,
    Thanks for the advice. I already bought 60 days worth so we'll see if it helps. I'm in day 3. So far nothing different I can detect.

    My last physical my testo was 684 with "free" at 12.1. I think that's pretty normal.
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 16, 2008 6:40 PM GMT
    Yes, I use real gH. But significant muscle growth (i.e, my pecs) does not depend on it, in my opinion. That comes from training and nutrition.
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 16, 2008 6:44 PM GMT
    LatinMuscleSF said[quote][cite]Massimouno said[/cite]I remember seeing research several years back suggesting they do work, but only for about 6 to 8 weeks before a natural feedback loop kicks in between your hypothalamus and pituitary, causing them to stop working. If that's so, you could try cycling, maybe 8 weeks on, 8 weeks off. However, if you can find geniune gh, you'd be much better off (and much poorer).


    I'm not questioning you saw this research; but do you know or remember how legitimate it was? I have very low opinions of supplements that make these claims to be steroid-like or cause increased GH levels.[/quote]

    It was in some promotional literature I picked up at an international anti-aging exhibition in Vegas several years ago. There were charts and abstracts and other stuff from what appeared to be genuine studies. You never know about that, though, when it comes to marketing products. The info is usually cherry-picked.
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    Mar 16, 2008 7:37 PM GMT
    vtorso said

    Latin,
    Thanks for the advice. I already bought 60 days worth so we'll see if it helps. I'm in day 3. So far nothing different I can detect.

    My last physical my testo was 684 with "free" at 12.1. I think that's pretty normal.


    The "normal range" of testosterone levels (total and free) seems to vary from reference to reference.

    The laboratory that measures my total testosterone cites a "reference interval" of 241 to 827 nanograms/deciliter. But I've come across references that range from 300 ng/dL (for the low end of "normal") to 1000 ng/dL (at the high end).

    The situation for free testosterone appears to be less well defined. As I understand it, the only accurate measurement method is quite expensive and hence not generally used for routine free testosterone measurements. Instead, one of several substantially less expensive (but approximate) methods is used instead. Unfortunately, although the results from these various methods are generally internally consistent and reproducible within a single method, they may differ substantially from method to method. Hence it is often recommended that comparison with the "normal range" should be made using the collective set of measurements measured at the same laboratory as the sample under question.

    For the particular laboratory that does my measurements, the "reference interval" for free testosterone (direct) is given as 6.6 - 18.1 pico-grams/milliliter (which would put you almost exactly in the middle of the range). But, by way of contrast, I've also seen a level of 60 pg/mL quoted as the upper end of the "normal" range for measurements from a different lab (methodology not stated).