Schools and Bullying

  • xKorix

    Posts: 607

    Nov 09, 2010 9:00 PM GMT
    Why are we telling these kids that are being bullied to "stick it out" and that "it gets better". Why aren't we telling them to just not go to school? That if it's dangerous to them, that they don't have to go. That they have the right to not enter an environment that is emotionally, physically, or mentally abusive to them. I swear sometimes we make it seem like we have no choice when it comes to school, that it is the ultimate authority if you're a child or teen and that you're rights are all null if you are of that age. I think it could've helped these kids who committed suicide to know they had a choice, they can choose not to go if its harmful to them. Yes learning and education is important and it's important to keep your opportunities open, but what is far more important is you're safety and wellbeing and that is number one. If you're in harm now, then what good is it worry about your future employment opportunities if you may not even be around to use them. I think the It Gets Better Project is a good idea but to me it's still saying "You don't have a choice but to endure this". I think we need to remind kids they have rights and they have a choice when it comes to choosing their environments and they deserve to be in environments that are safe for them.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 09, 2010 11:28 PM GMT
    It seems to me that things hadn't changed much since my schooldays in the 1960s.
    If a boy bullied another boy and the victim was to run to the teacher for protective intervention, the master's reply would have been, "Don't tell tales!" The turning a blind eye towards bullying by the staff was deliberate. It was a way for the victim to face the reality of a harsh world as an adult, particularly in the days when Conscription was still in force until 1962. Unfortunately, the staff, especially older male teachers, still clung to the National Service mentality by the time I left school in 1968, although a more relaxing atmosphere was just beginning to be felt among younger teachers by then.
    But as long as humans and schools continue to exist, bullying is here to stay. Of course, I'm not saying that bullying is good, it certainly isn't. I was bullied at school, I suffered enough of it, and none of the staff intervened.
    I guess the bully has a problem with his own self esteem or personal security, and by picking on someone else, learns to be in control, which will be a necessity later in life when holding down a job and raising a family.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 09, 2010 11:34 PM GMT
    xKorix said. That they have the right to not enter an environment that is emotionally, physically, or mentally abusive to them.


    That right would be?
    Going to school is required by law. I think it has more to do with bad parenting on all accounts then a simple matter of going to school or not.
    Its like saying if you don't like it ignore it. Some things are not ignorable nor escapable.
  • xKorix

    Posts: 607

    Nov 10, 2010 12:14 AM GMT
    So continually exposing oneself to an abusive environment is a good idea? Kids are dying I think the last thing they need to hear is "just deal with it" and "this is just how things are". I don't believe protecting yourself from abuse means that you're ignoring or denying its existence and I don't believe you should expose yourself to it just because an institution says so(or teachers, principles, etc), or that its something that you should just "learn to take". Would you tell a battered wife that she should just accept it? That this is just the way things gotta be? In essence that's what we are tell these kids. Abuse is abuse. It doesn't matter if it's between kids, teenagers, or adults, the pain, fear, and shame are the same. I think bullied students need hope and to feel they have some control and a choice because they probably don't feel that way, thus suicide. It doesn't take very long to get a GED.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 10, 2010 3:08 AM GMT
    My parents taught me a simple rule growing up:
    "If someone is bullying you, ask them to stop. If they don't, beat their ass."
    It seemed to work for me most of the time. Having an older brother that was raised the same way helped me get better at it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 11, 2010 12:08 AM GMT
    To xKorix,

    I wasn't sure whether you were addressing me or mnboy in your second post, but I did mention already that bullying is not good.
    As mnboy said, attending school is the law. In the UK, parents who continually allow their kids to play truant could themselves end up in jail. It's even against the law for parents to go away on holiday (vacation) with their kids during school term, unless permission has been granted from the school.

    I have often wondered whether the school as a national institution was ever a good thing. For thousands of years, schooling was done at home with their parents as teachers. Then again, all the kids had to learn back then was the skill of good husbandry (farming). Bullying was totally unknown, and the children were always attentive, perhaps with the underlying motive that adult responsibility started as early as 12, from then one was seen as an adult. There were no such thing as teenagers.
    I'm using the Jewish family here as a yardstick. Yet, prior to the Industrial Revolution, much of the same applied here as well.
    I think, (but I could be wrong on this) the school or Universities such as Oxbridge as an institution we are familiar with began at the time of the Renaissance between the 14th to the 16th Centuries.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 11, 2010 3:47 AM GMT
    I'm afraid this kind of thing is so baked into our culture, and indeed, our species. It isn't just kids. Adults do it to one another, some even make a living on negativity and destruction of others. The best we can do is protect ourselves and our kids with good self esteem and positive words of kindness to everyone we interact with.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 11, 2010 4:52 AM GMT
    Are you serious?

    Kids can't just drop out of school when they don't feel like going even if its a hostile environment. Lets say you have a gay kid in a single parent low income household. The mom sends the kid to school so that she can go to work in the day time at a job that pays minimum wage. What does the kid do? Just stay home all day? The kid has no choice but to go to school and be bullied.

    "It Gets Better" encourages kids to hang in there and not off themselves. Telling these kids they don't have to be in the hostile environment and that they can choose their own environment will encourages things like... I dont know.... run away!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 11, 2010 5:18 AM GMT
    Actually, kids can leave school at any time. The drop out age is 16. Parents can withdraw their kids and enroll them in private schools. They can also homeschool, or kids can be tutored. There ARE options out there. Nobody has to endure bullying.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 11, 2010 5:22 AM GMT
    Parents have to be certified to home-school their kids and private tutoring is extremely expensive.
  • mynyun

    Posts: 1346

    Dec 18, 2010 7:54 AM GMT
    <a href=/s190.photobucket.com/albums/z253/mynyon/?action=view&current=1026100913a.jpg" target="_blank">Photobucket">


    I had wanted to upload this for a while but kept forgetting. Then I couldn't find the forum that I wanted to share this one. I think this seems like the start of a change. Not SUPER but a start.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 18, 2010 8:31 AM GMT
    Bully's exist in all AGES. I've never really been exposed to bullying, socially awkward yes when I teenager but never pegged by bullies.

    However "It gets better" program allows kids to see that you can over come the bullies by simply being more sure about yourself, learning to overcome obstacles and make a life of how you see fit without any negative influence by the opposing party.

    The animal kingdom has bullying of their own kind and that is to weed out (and kill off) the runts and competition. Survival of the fittest.

    Of course we're much more evolved but the underpinnings are there. Forget social insecurities and emotional problems, some bullies are plain evil.
    A child needs to at times face it and through support of friends and family, kids can topple and overcome the purely evil bullies.


  • mynyun

    Posts: 1346

    Dec 18, 2010 8:38 AM GMT


    Well I wasn't bullied that much as a kid. Teased yes. But not for being gay.
    I feel for them though. I think it's good for them to know there ARE those out there who know they feel alone. That they aren't so alone anymore.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 18, 2010 12:44 PM GMT
    It sounds good in theory, but in practice it would be a nightmare because the parents would be forced to home school...and they're the ones who can be the biggest bullies.

    This dude got it right:
    Pyrotech saidMy parents taught me a simple rule growing up:
    "If someone is bullying you, ask them to stop. If they don't, beat their ass."
    That's what prompted me to take Taekwondo in 9th grade. By 10th grade, nobody fucked with me anymore because I had to use what I'd learned a couple times on campus in self defense...against a dude with a knife.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Dec 18, 2010 1:17 PM GMT
    I only had to deal with bullies twice during my school years, and both times I kicked their asses, and that was the end of that. I come across as meek & mild, and I suspect my classmates knew I was gay, or whatever term we had for it almost 50 years ago, a tempting target for bullies. But threaten me and there'll be nothing left of you but your shadow.

    It was either in 7th or 8th grade a classmate tried to make me give him money to leave me alone, as he did with other kids in the playground. I punched him out, and he got no money from me.

    Interestingly, we later became very close friends, and when we both went into the Army (he drafted, me voluntarily enlisted), I once rode my motorcycle over 2000 miles round-trip to spend a weekend with him at Fort Bragg (non-sexual). And some of the best memories of my late teens are riding around with him in his brand new 1966 Mustang convertible on summer days with the top down, and later in his convertible Corvette. Good times!

    When I transferred to a public high school from a private prep school in my junior year I was an outsider. And so a bully focused on me. One day in the lunch room he started to poke his fingers into an ice cream cup I had. That was enough.

    "Here, you wanna play with my ice cream?" I said, and I shoved the thing right into his face. The other students at our long table cheered me. But he was naturally furious, and wanted to fight me. Fine, I said, I'll meet you outside, let's go.

    I beat him royally, a crowd of students at the windows watching, since the school cafeteria was at ground level, we right outside on the grass. Some teachers came outside and broke it up, hauling us both off to the Principal's office.

    I was threatened with suspension, but I calmly told the Principal that I was the injured party, and if I was penalized in any way my family's attorney would serve him papers. Looking back I can hardly believe I was that gutsy & arrogant at only 16.

    But I got away with it, no suspension or penalty, just a "stern warning" not to do it again. And that bully never dared speak to me anymore, much less even come near me.